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Just saw my first Jeep 4xe

Reseg

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You have NO concept of how electric Cars batteries work... Batteries will maintain nearly all of the torque until empty it is not like Wetcell batteries. ........ My Telsa has just as much speed and torque whether 100% or 20% of battery. That is the beauty of Lith Batts they maintain power down to near zero...
Just because the battery charge is dropping doesn't mean torque is dropping.
Your post/experience conflicts with nearly everything I've read as well as my own testing with Tesla cells and their output.
Tesla Model 3 drag times tested by battery %
100% charge = 11.4X
78% charge = 11.65
56% charge = 11.87
25% charge = 12.28


Now, the Model 3 weighs around 4,000 lbs, and using the calculator here:
https://www.ajdesigner.com/fl_horsepower_elapsed_time/horsepower_elapsed_time.php
They estimate running an 11.4 to a 12.2 quarter for a 4k lb car is a difference of 533 HP vs 435 HP (nearly 20% drop in HP). Yes, it's rough math, but 100% unbiased.

One of the many discussions on the Tesla forums of their power/torque dropping as the battery % declines:
https://forums.tesla.com/discussion/68867/model-s-acceleration-slower-as-battery-depletes

Ultimately it comes down to how the Jeep system is engineered, as far as how much overhead it has and how conservative it's tuned. However, I'd bet they're not over engineering it, due to it also having a 2.0 gas engine they're expecting most to use, given the low range, and it will lose power with each % of battery loss (more than the Tesla). Not only that, but probably up to 10% battery capacity with each 30,000 miles driven. We'll see, though! It's at least a step towards something I'd be interested in.
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HungryHound

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I think my biggest concern with them is that FCA has yet to be able to field a new technology especially a brand new one without considerable issues. Using their lifeblood product line to test bed it seems premature. I think the batteries could be a real kick in the nuts when out of warranty. It is a cool idea though for a high number of the customers that really don’t go offroad or engage 4x4 very often. You don’t have to be a wheeler to be a Jeeper. I just hate to see the brand degraded by poor implementations of new tech.
Taking mine to Moab, CO and MT this summer. I'll let you know how it handles offroad with 470ft-lbs of torque and 4:1 transfer case.
 

Dan M.

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with all due respect, you’re speaking out of your ass.

let me make this very simple. If your tax liability was $7,500 for the year, and you paid / withheld $7,500 during the year, so come tax filing time you owed $0. If you had bought a 4Xe, when you filed your taxes Uncle Sam would send you a check for $7,500 (the credit).
I think the end result of this tax discussion is review with your accountant before purchasing a 4XE.
 

Dan M.

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It still makes no sense to me that theres a hybrid jeep. Jeep owners dont care about mpg.
The vast majority of my driving is within 8 miles of my house (Take son to school, got to grocery store, go to the office once Corona issues are resolved). I like the idea of being able to charge my Jeep up on my garage and rarely go to the gas station. Now, I'm the kind of person that keeps their ride until it isn't cost effective to repair it so I won't be trading in my sport for a 4XE anytime soon, but sometime in the distant future (hopefully) I will definetly consider it depending on how much extra the electric option costs over a standard gas engine.
 

Dan M.

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I'll get an electric jeep when they have hub motors.
I love this idea. You could get crazy ground clearance if they could implement this like a portal axle somehow. I'm not tech savy enough to know if this is a possibility, but I like the thought.
 

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HungryHound

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HUGE exaggeration there. Sorry, but as a guy who is a big fan of tech and electric motors, as well as a data nerd and still holding a high appreciation of gas/diesel engines...

The 4XE makes 6-7% more torque than his 3.0 diesel, though the 4XE should have instant torque and a better curve vs his diesel as an additional bonus. However, that's at 100% charge. The 4XE will lose 5% charge PER MILE when running on the battery (probably 7-8% in the real world, and 8-12% per mile in the cold winter), and with each % it loses, it will also lose torque. His diesel will have more torque within a couple minutes of the 4XE leaving home, and pull that torque all day long.

I'm not bashing either, but let's be real here.
The 4xe is rad - I just can't justify it (yet) for a few reasons. Folks talk about savings in fuel costs, but the reality is that is an unfinished statement. Savings as compared to what? The closest comparison, in my personal case, is my JLUR with the 2.0 turbo.

I paid 42000 for my Jeep. The cheapest comparable 4xe Rubicon is in the mid 50s. Even if all of the driving I did was able to be completed in under the fully electric range, it would take literally a decade at those small trips to break even. In real world conditions of driving in hybrid mode, where the 4xe is using gas (and driving more miles) that gap could close to 6ish years but let's be real...that's a lot of driving before I start to see savings.

The 4xe has some cool features, like the ability to save its electricity in case you run out of fuel on the trail. You'd be hard pressed to find a continuous overland track in the usa that would run a 2.0T wrangler out of gas, even in 4-hi, without ample gas within a few miles of the track at convenient intervals, and even a small 2.5 gallon gas can would take me farther than the battery power would. If you're out in AU and doing the canning stock route, not even a 4xe is gonna help you - you're gonna need to being some massive fuel cans and probably do a mid-trip refuel at a remote village. See my point here - currently, this feature is a solution looking for a problem.

The 4xe is a torque monster - that part is indeed rad. And yes, some have pointed out that diminishes as the vehicle is driven and can be affected by cold, yadda yadda yadda. All of that is irrelevant to me because the 2.0 puts out 295 lbs-ft of torque. That is gobs more than I'll ever need even with a fully loaded wrangler (I don't exceed my payload capacity) driving off road for multiple days in 4hi, and if I need to move the vehicle up an obstacle or area that needs the torque...putting a rubi transfer case in 4lo is beyond enough to move the rig. It's also worth noting some of this torque is necessary...the jlur 4xe weighs about 1000lbs more than a normal jlur.

As it sits now, I see a couple types of buyers for this thing.

A) First adopters who want to buy the newest and coolest of items, whether they need it or not, just to say they have it. My hats off to these guys, provided they're doing it with real money and not a bunch of debt.

B) People who need a single vehicle to drive in the city, and explore wrangler-pedigree tracks on the weekends, and will keep it long enough to offset the higher cost and/or are interested in spending more than they have to on the feeling of driving a hybrid (which cannot be valued and is subjective). Leasers who don't care about building up car-wealth over time to the 50/50 breakover point (your trade is worth 50% of your next one and you have the rest in cash) and do tons of small city commutes would also fall into this group.

C) People who want a non-diesel option and actually need to tow something that requires the torque of the 4xe, aren't worried about the diminished power of the batteries in cold/heat/loss as they drain.

So, I'm gonna keep my eyes open. I like where it's going and I love Jeep pushing into new markets and developing new products. If they could get the price within 5k of a comparable equipped Rubicon, and the real-world battery only range to 50 miles in 4hi with a full load, I'd be in. These are the numbers I'll be watching for in the next decade. Til then, even with the cost of fuel, my ICE serves me just fine.
You're comparing 2 different trim levels for your cost analysis. When factoring in the $7,500 tax credit, the 4xe Rubicon is cheaper than the gasser and the diesel versions of the Rubicon.
 

HungryHound

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The vast majority of my driving is within 8 miles of my house (Take son to school, got to grocery store, go to the office once Corona issues are resolved). I like the idea of being able to charge my Jeep up on my garage and rarely go to the gas station. Now, I'm the kind of person that keeps their ride until it isn't cost effective to repair it so I won't be trading in my sport for a 4XE anytime soon, but sometime in the distant future (hopefully) I will definetly consider it depending on how much extra the electric option costs over a standard gas engine.
With the $7,500 tax credit, the 4xe is cheaper than the gas-only version of the same trim level.
 

Dan M.

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With the $7,500 tax credit, the 4xe is cheaper than the gas-only version of the same trim level.
That may be true, but I don't know if the tax credit will be there when I finally need to replace my current Jeep (I have less than 5k miles on it now).
 
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Mess262

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This thread pretty much went the way you'd expect it to.
I def did not expect this to go anywhere close to this. Maybe I haven’t been here too long and I’m not as familiar with it here but I was by no means intending to be the first monkey who starting flinging poo.
Jeep Wrangler JL Just saw my first Jeep 4xe 7D6A8065-3062-4DA2-A0D2-1310FC45C532
 

HungryHound

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That may be true, but I don't know if the tax credit will be there when I finally need to replace my current Jeep (I have less than 5k miles on it now).
It's a Jeep....it could go at any time.😁
 

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dalema

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HUGE exaggeration there. Sorry, but as a guy who is a big fan of tech and electric motors, as well as a data nerd and still holding a high appreciation of gas/diesel engines...

The 4XE makes 6-7% more torque than his 3.0 diesel, though the 4XE should have instant torque and a better curve vs his diesel as an additional bonus. However, that's at 100% charge. The 4XE will lose 5% charge PER MILE when running on the battery (probably 7-8% in the real world, and 8-12% per mile in the cold winter), and with each % it loses, it will also lose torque. His diesel will have more torque within a couple minutes of the 4XE leaving home, and pull that torque all day long.

I'm not bashing either, but let's be real here.
Im pretty sure he was comparing it to the 2.0L - and the 4Xe has a huge torque and power gain over that engine.

Isn’t the diesel like a $5K premium over the 2.0L?

if you’re buying the 2.0L then it’s a no brainer to get the hybrid that, with the $7,500 tax rebate, ends up costing less than the 2.0L. And a ton less than that diesel optioned rubi.

notice - no mention of tree hugging in that equation?
 

HungryHound

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How dare you use scientific data, facts and logic in an internet discussion. How dare you. I’m reporting you to MSNBC immediately.
Well, his science doesn't work out. He's factoring in losses for cold on a battery pack that has it's own heating and cooling system and sits inside the same environment as the passengers. He's not factoring losses for the diesel on a cold start. He also doesn't understand that the torque is flat during the whole charge cycle. Just because the battery charge is dropping doesn't mean torque is dropping. With regen braking and a 4:1 transfer case, you can get 25 miles before the battery is depleted. I know everyone on here thinks they're a tough guy, but none of us are macho enough to do a 25 mile rock crawling trip in one day.
 

dalema

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I think it’s great that this new hybrid is generating interest in a new market segment / new bunch of people for Jeep. The more people who buy Jeeps is a good thing in my view for the brand overall, and it’s expanding the Jeep family - the more the merrier!

So come on people be a little bit welcoming and drop the snark (they will get used to, and love the snark soon enough if they hang around the forum enough - haha! But don’t scare them off up front).

for me personally, I’m looking at this new thing and it has me seriously considering a switch:
- first and foremost - it has 375 horsepower and 470 pound-feet of torque - this is just what the doctor ordered over the gasser which is underpowered
- economically I can buy the 4xe for less than the gas version (with the $7,500 tax rebate, and in CA there is another $1,500 state rebate)
- it can go 20ish miles on just electric - that gets me almost to work and back
- my daughter thinks dad is doing something cool for the environment. I’m not sure I am but it’s not really in my equation. (I’m not kidding myself - the jeep has the aerodynamics of a brick!)

The parts I need to get over:
- it doesn’t have the 392 exhaust, but then I don’t have $80K+ for that rig either
- do I trust this type of tech from FCA this early - but it does have a 10 year warranty
- can I live with the bump in the back with the seats folded down

ive spent a bit of time in the 4Xe forum and it is a bit of a different crowd, but they are all nice people - just sayin’
 

HungryHound

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It was another view for sure, but the information was just as one sided as watching FOX or CNN. It's another power source, I just don't like how it's advertised as being clean energy. All the materials in solar panels, wind farms, hydro dams all have their carbon foot print as well. They have effects equally as damaging to out plant. I personally just really don't like how only half the picture is always hidden when it comes to clean energy. But my biggest issue how it's one step closer to limiting power supplies. Can you imagine how expensive electricity is going to be when it's the only power source limited to the public.
Just to clarify if someone like their electric vehicle for that instant power, quite ride, they hate the smell of gas, anything like that I dig and respect that. Hell I've been waiting for someone to say something along the lines of, I had this RC growing up and always wanted to have a vehicle like that with instant power like it did and now I do, or something along those lines. In that case I'd even have to smash a like button.
I'm your guy. Bought mine for the torque. I'll post a burn-out video when I take delivery.
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