Just got home from Bronco event...

[BlackGenesis]

Competition is good. But like you noted, Bronco has been built in a totally different way. The interior is horrible. It's Polaris RZR quality. The doors are designed more like traditional SUV doors, whether they come off or not. The way the soft top opens in the rear cargo area is a joke. You could start at the front bumper and work your way to the rear and find a long list of things that are not done as well as Jeep.



Seriously?

You can have any engine you want in a Ford, as long as it's an EcoBust.

By contrast, look at Wrangler. Want a 4-banger turbo? Got it. Stone age simple V6 that will last forever? Check. Hybrid? Got that too. V8? Ok. Turbo diesel? Sure.

Ford can keep their EcoBust tech with more TSBs and recalls and lawsuits than you can shake a stick at, I'm content with the AWESOME engine options of the Jeep.



I sort of see that. The Bronco is sort of in between a Wrangler and a Grand Cherokee in a lot of ways, except the interior is embarrassing compared to either of those. But yeah, the overall design is a little more mainstream SUV in the Bronco. The more I see of it, the less I like it.

Have you been in one in person to draft sunch a strong opinion ?

EcoBoost 2.7 is very reliable engine. Yes there were few TSBs to resolve issues in the first version of 2.7 (leaky oil pan and defective valve guides, affecting 2017 and older), but they are currently bulletproof. They also can handle shitload of power, especially with upgraded /ported stock turbos. High graphite iron block.

2.3 is reliable at this point as well and is very fortified to handle more then stock (or to run to 200k as is). Forges rods and crank, ctossdrilled for better cooling later frame to strengthen block. Unlike 2.7, 2.3 does not have dual injection and will have build up in the intake valves over time (like any other DI engine)....2.7 is dually injected, DI and MPI.

I have been beating on my gen 1 3.5 EcoBoost for 7 years with 93 octane tune (drive aggressively) and its has not given any issues. I do change oil no later then 5k, syntetic, instead of waiting for a reminder at 7k. And other fluid changes under severe duty intervals.

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[rallydefault]

I've seen quite a few describe it similarly and I always wonder what the hell they were driving before they bought it. Tolerable would probably be a better term. It's a tiring vehicle to take on long road trips.

Yea, definitely. Just got back from a road trip, actually. Only about 200 miles each way, but dang... it gets to you after a few hours and you definitely need some breaks. At least I do lol

 

[bigbaozi]

I wonder if it depends on the road quality in different parts of the country. I've taken my 2 door SS on several 700+ mile trips without feeling excessively worn out - I actually love the seats and seating position - and I'm 6'4" 225. But, as noted before, the roads in the southwest are pretty darn good.
I was concerned before I got it about it being 'skitish' because of it's short wheelbase, but, while not a go cart, I have yet to go fast enough (90+) to feel anything but stuck to the road....

Not our part of the southwest, I-20 has massive problems in Texas from oilfield traffic.

But even on smooth roads it rides worse than our other cars, requires more steering input, and the noise level is much higher. Seats are fine, wish they had more bolstering.

My mom has a 2-door JK and that thing is downright scary at highway speeds. So the JL is a definite improvement.

 

[LongTimeListener]

I expect the Bronco will ride a lot like a 4Runner, Xterra, or FJ, since they all have solid rear axles and IFS. It looks like Ford has done a lot of work to make the Sasquatch package a winner and so, provided that springs and shocks have been upgraded properly, it should ride beautifully on those pillowy sidewalls.

I actually don't mind how Jeeps ride at all. The Gladiator, in particular, feels like a Cadillac. But SFA will always be harsher than IFS, everything being equal.

 

[aldo98229]

Seems pretty important no? Since 95% of Jeeps never leave pavement and even though mine has several times already I really have no need for the huge number of compromises built into a Wrangler, hardly anybody does. Mostly fodder for posers...

If you view Wrangler as a poser mobile, that means you bought it to be a poser. Which is perfectly fine; this is a free market. Just don’t assume that everyone else buying a Wrangler is a poser, too.

As it has been mentioned many times already, there are already plenty of more comfortable alternatives on the market for people who don’t plan to take their vehicle off-road.

The disconnect is that posers want Wrangler’s image of fun, freedom and adventure, but not its compromises.

 

[Pingbling23]

Yea, definitely. Just got back from a road trip, actually. Only about 200 miles each way, but dang... it gets to you after a few hours and you definitely need some breaks. At least I do lol

I see all of the replies in contrary to me saying the ride is comfy are from sport s owners. Maybe the different springs and shocks on the sahara really make for a better ride then sport s.

 

[_olllllllo_]

Subaru makes excellent vehicles but the roof and doors don't come off. That's probably pretty important for most Wrangler buyers.

Everyone wants a piece of the pie. The new Outback Wilderness is being marketed as a go anywhere vehicle. The Outback Wilderness has 9.5" of ground clearance, the bumpers are redesigned for better approach and departure angles, etc. It's probably around $40K.

I don't have anything against Subaru. I have owned 4 of them. The naked driving experience is something Subaru does not have. For that $40K I would buy a Wrangler or a Bronco. It's great there is finally some competition for a 4x4 with removable roof and doors. Something for everyone and their personal needs.

I have a 2012 Subaru Impreza and there are two things that are maintenance headaches.

1. The boxer engine is notorious for consuming oil and every 1,500 miles you have to put a quart in. The odd part is after a fresh oil change it will go 1,200 miles with no loss, but once the oil starts wearing the consumption begins. It isn't terrible, but I have to remind the son that drives it to check the oil every few fillips and I have a quart in the back if it is low.

2. The Constant Velocity Transmission (CVT) is a neat idea in principle, but a poor design in reality. It was replaced entirely at 89,000 miles and the valve body was replaced at 160,000. They are sealed and the fluid has to be flushed every 75,000 miles and this is best done at the dealer (at dealer prices). Now that I have a 6-speed manual I have grown to really appreciate the simplicity of that transmission.

We have had a lot of Honda's and they had far less issues than the Subaru. My wife has a Kia minivan and that thing is incredible and I consider it in the Honda/Toyota territory with build quality and reliability.

That being said I have to be forced to drive any of our other vehicles in lieu of the Jeep. It has 52,000 miles in just under 24 months and has been fantastic. It is way more fun than any other vehicle I have ever owned (The Jeep = spending the day with the Hawaiian Tropic Bikini Girls and the other vehicles = spending the day with accountants, engineers and astro-physicists).

 

[_olllllllo_]

I see all of the replies in contrary to me saying the ride is comfy are from sport s owners. Maybe the different springs and shocks on the sahara really make for a better ride then sport s.

I have a Rubicon and put an easy 500-600 miles in a day with no issue. I actually like the more upright seating position and the seats are great. The manual transmission keeps me engaged and it actually handles pretty well. I took old Route 666 (The Devil's Highway) south out of Alpine to Morenci in Arizona and it is very twisty and I had a blast.

 

[Outrun]

I actually have no issues with well executed unibodies either and as much as I do like solid axles, they are on borrowed time. I agree that as long as Jeep can keep printing money with the Wrangler (and those FWD minivans that bask in its off road glory), we get the benefit of a solid axle Jeep. Now Bronco comes into the picture and can do 99% of what most people use the Wrangler for, while still looking the part and simply driving better on the highway... seems like that might shake things up a bit. I think Maverick falls into the same category. It actually looks like a truck and has the credibility of a Ford, so that someone that wants a truck but doesn't really need an F150 can now make a better choice without buying a Ridgeline. I'll be watching Bronco and Maverick closely to see how this plays out. The other car that I keep coming back to is Subaru Crosstrek...Every time I took the Jeep out in the wood somewhere, I would come across someone in a Crosstrek with a Kayak on top. The only place I didn't see them was on the trails at Drummond Island, probably because there is not much to do out there other than climbing some rocks and testing your fording depth in the tank traps...neither of which is really that appealing to me in a $60k vehicle. After owning the Wrangler for a year, I kind of realized that most of the places I wanted to go seemed perfectly accessible by an underpowered unibody Subaru that costs half as much. They also have a decent and growing aftermarket (bumpers, lifts, winches, etc..) too. A Subaru is not a Jeep, but...

Borrowed time? Is it not true that they sell boat loads of Wranglers?

 

[Nerobergstr]

Borrowed time? Is it not true that they sell boat loads of Wranglers?

I'm not wishing for it, but I see it as inevitable with Bronco in the mix. Knowing how long Wrangler platforms live, it will be a while. Best case I think is they rework the steering in the next Wrangler and improve it to the point that they can keep the SFA and make the highway handling equivalent to Bronco. Worst case we end up with Wrangler IFS that matches Bronco off-road. We can be sure that both consumers and Stellantis engineers will be carefully evaluating the Bronco. The 1% of folks that really need/use the SFA are the ones that create the Jeep brand image for the 99% that IFS won't matter one way or another. Full disclosure I'm in that 99% and if Bronco can give me an open air experience, a real low range, and decent off-road chops, while delivering better highway driving...I'm going to give it a hard look.

 

[bigbaozi]

I expect the Bronco will be better on the highway with the IFS, but not having driven it yet I'll withhold judgement. I was very ready to jump Wrangler ship until I got the steering TSB done. It drives a lot better now. I can't believe how long it took Jeep to come around and fix that.

 

[rallydefault]

I see all of the replies in contrary to me saying the ride is comfy are from sport s owners. Maybe the different springs and shocks on the sahara really make for a better ride then sport s.

Oh, I don't doubt the Sahara model has a better ride. I think that's part of its shtick, but I could be wrong.

 

[Outrun]

I'm not wishing for it, but I see it as inevitable with Bronco in the mix. Knowing how long Wrangler platforms live, it will be a while. Best case I think is they rework the steering in the next Wrangler and improve it to the point that they can keep the SFA and make the highway handling equivalent to Bronco. Worst case we end up with Wrangler IFS that matches Bronco off-road. We can be sure that both consumers and Stellantis engineers will be carefully evaluating the Bronco. The 1% of folks that really need/use the SFA are the ones that create the Jeep brand image for the 99% that IFS won't matter one way or another. Full disclosure I'm in that 99% and if Bronco can give me an open air experience, a real low range, and decent off-road chops, while delivering better highway driving...I'm going to give it a hard look.

SFA has left the Bronco long time ago along with other vehicles like the 4Runner, Fj Cruiser.. and Jeep remains SFA the whole time. I have no complaints about highway driving. It drives fine to me.

This new Bronco has the strongest marketing I have ever seen.

You know there are a few IFS conversion kits for the Wrangler but rarely ever sold/used/seen. Meanwhile there are SFA conversion kits for most other 4x4's out there and they are regularly seen...

 

[ThirtyOne]

SFA has left the Bronco long time ago along with other vehicles like the 4Runner, Fj Cruiser.. and Jeep remains SFA the whole time. I have no complaints about highway driving. It drives fine to me.

This new Bronco has the strongest marketing I have ever seen.

You know there are a few IFS conversion kits for the Wrangler but rarely ever sold/used/seen. Meanwhile there are SFA conversion kits for most other 4x4's out there and they are regularly seen...

of the 250,000 people who buy a wrangler this year i bet 20% or less can tell you the difference between IFS and SFA.

 

[Ridgway Jeeper]

If you view Wrangler as a poser mobile, that means you bought it to be a poser. Which is perfectly fine; this is a free market. Just don’t assume that everyone else buying a Wrangler is a poser, too.

As it has been mentioned many times already, there are already plenty of more comfortable alternatives on the market for people who don’t plan to take their vehicle off-road.

The disconnect is that posers want Wrangler’s image of fun, freedom and adventure, but not its compromises.

WOW, more glorious assumptions right there. Now you know why I bought it...LOL

I am not the one making assumptions, and I do not care one whit why people buy them.

Thanks for the rundown captain obvious... yes there are more comfortable vehicles, that wouldn't take much.

Clearly it was bought for the fun factor, it gets used for that every weekend. It will be on the trails again this weekend. We have to use it for that, the nearest mall is over 100 miles away...

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