Jump starters: who’s got one and what’s good?

[Gee-pah]

Let's take a look at the record here @Rhinebeck01.

You find my theories to be nonsense with your laughing emoticons.

wait, go quickly erase all those laughing emoticons above because that's what trolls do; they don't put forward their opposing ideas; they mock other people's ideas.

Since nothing I said here is or was meant to be funny, you clearly aim to show lack of regard.

Tell me, do you see me or others on this bboard acting the way you do? Ask yourself why.

Trolls also think other people's ideas absurd, but when asked to explain why, asked to refute their claims, they pretend they're above it, and they tell you to go read prior posts I not only know inside out on cold cranking the 3.6L JL, but posts that have likely become outdated with @Jebiruph's reported flash and change in cold cranking logic.

Well explain for everybody else then....forget about me. Don't you owe it to other readers here to show how they shouldn't give any credence to my thoughts?

If you think the idea that "jump starting the 3.6L may have just become easier because a minimally charged 3.6L JL's ESS battery is no longer a requirement for cold crank and jumper cables may not have to sit on the main battery (as long) charging the ESS/Aux battery" is absurd we're all ears as to why.

Talk about science here rather than making fun of people, not that your phasing me. Or at least explain what you find so funny.

And when Jerry above asked if the owners of 2019 and 2020 JLs (and JTs) are finding it takes less power to jump start I have to assume he too finds these ideas of mine, if by no means proven, then at least plausible based on my take on his observations. Why would he ask that question if he thought my theories, even if ultimately proven wrong, as implausible as you seem to?

Do you think his ideas laughable too?

I truly hope you find peace with whatever seems to bother you.

In the meantime this bboard, I think most people agree is about the dignified exchanged of ideas so we all learn.

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[Gee-pah]

I keep on finding in my alerts (the bell icon at top) notifications that you are laughing at these posts.

I think that this can only mean that you @Rhinebeck01 have removed this emoticon and reinstated it in the hopes of getting my attention.

If you are doing this please know that this behavior is sad. Please stop.

You have all the space here to put forth your reasons for disagreeing with my theories that you seem to find hysterical, in a civilized open exchange of ideas via words, and you certainly have the right to do so if I and others do.

And yet you have not. Please know that this silence is speaking volumes. People are getting the idea that when a man with no shortage of ability to state his opinion here (which is your right of course) goes silent and smiles, that he may have overplayed his hand above.

I would not write this post but for the sake that you appear to be deliberately trying to harass me.

Show others that this is simply not true with your written and respectful counterarguments.

If Mr. @Rhinebeck01's laughter emoticons are gone (and back and gone) after this post, it's because he's toying with them.

I hope you find the inner peace to realize that this behavior is counterproductive for all.

 

[TCogs1]

I just wanted to say thanks for all this detail.. I wished Jeep would have engineered a proper dual battery system.. this thing is a real mess. My Jeep is in the shop on this topic, as it wont start when the battery gets low (~1.5 hours of accessory time). Which means you pretty much are guaranteed to have this problem when your camping.

now i am looking at https://www.victronenergy.com/ and https://www.renogy.com/dcc30s-12v-30a-dual-input-dc-dc-on-board-battery-charger-with-mppt/ and https://no.co/genm3

Hopefully jump starts will be a thing of the past..

 

[Gee-pah]

I just wanted to say thanks for all this detail.. I wished Jeep would have engineered a proper dual battery system.. this thing is a real mess. My Jeep is in the shop on this topic, as it wont start when the battery gets low (~1.5 hours of accessory time). Which means you pretty much are guaranteed to have this problem when your camping.

now i am looking at https://www.victronenergy.com/ and https://www.renogy.com/dcc30s-12v-30a-dual-input-dc-dc-on-board-battery-charger-with-mppt/ and https://no.co/genm3

Hopefully jump starts will be a thing of the past..

Thomas, I wish you luck and would encourage you, if you own a 2018 3.6L JL, to get this flash if you don't already have it https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/3-6l-ess-bad-aux-battery-no-start-firmware-fix.53608/ , even though it costs $, since you're at the dealer anyway.

It is reported to allow the rig to start with current from the main battery, even if the ESS/Aux battery is dead.

Another option to effect this involves a hack by the same poster who reported this firmware flash that involves connecting two electrical connection points so the ESS/Aux battery is never isolated during pre crank tests, the above flash or not. Again, we're talking the 3.6L JL.

Let me know if you'd like a link to it. I don't think it dangerous but not something to keep on the rig when taking it to the dealer. It also, IMHO is something to not run with ESS enabled: reasons for which I can provide if you're interested.

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

I just wanted to say thanks for all this detail.. I wished Jeep would have engineered a proper dual battery system.. this thing is a real mess. My Jeep is in the shop on this topic, as it wont start when the battery gets low (~1.5 hours of accessory time). Which means you pretty much are guaranteed to have this problem when your camping.

now i am looking at https://www.victronenergy.com/ and https://www.renogy.com/dcc30s-12v-30a-dual-input-dc-dc-on-board-battery-charger-with-mppt/ and https://no.co/genm3

Hopefully jump starts will be a thing of the past..

That’s a lot of money to spend on charging batteries. A $50 tender is all you need. I have this one, and it works great. Put the money saved toward a Honda inverter generator for camping.

 

[TCogs1]

That’s a lot of money to spend on charging batteries. A $50 tender is all you need. I have this one, and it works great. Put the money saved toward a Honda inverter generator for camping.

The problem is u cant jump start with a tendor when your camping, nor will it deal with winching loads.

 

[Gee-pah]

The problem is u cant jump start with a tendor when your camping, nor will it deal with winching loads.

Excellent point Thomas. Tenders merely overcome a battery's natural tendency over time to discharge.

But @OldGuyNewJeep's alternative suggestion, albeit much more expensive can, in addition to providing other features.

Keep us posted. We all learn this way.

 

[TCogs1]

Excellent point Thomas. Tenders merely overcome a battery's natural tendency over time to discharge.

But @OldGuyNewJeep's alternative suggestion, albeit much more expensive can, in addition to providing other features.

Keep us posted. We all learn this way.

true, but i have 3 batteries to charge and isolate .. i am leaning toward.. https://www.renogy.com/dcc30s-12v-30a-dual-input-dc-dc-on-board-battery-charger-with-mppt/ and one tendor.. assuming Jeep will approve a design that wont void my lifetime warranty.


If anybody knows a Jeep sparky (Electrical engineer) that works for Jeep (has access to schematics and anlysis's) i would love to speak to him or her.. please forward this along..

https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2019/10/10/new-product-orion-tr-smart-dc-dc-charger/

 

[Gee-pah]

true, but i have 3 batteries to charge and isolate .. i am leaning toward.. https://www.renogy.com/dcc30s-12v-30a-dual-input-dc-dc-on-board-battery-charger-with-mppt/ and one tendor.. assuming Jeep will approve a design that wont void my lifetime warranty.


If anybody knows a Jeep sparky (Electrical engineer) that works for Jeep (has access to schematics and anlysis's) i would love to speak to him or her.. please forward this along..

Hey Thomas:

I'm no such Wrangler electrical engineer, but I bet some of the guys that wrote these are.

Perhaps they can be of help to you.
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/jeep-jl-wrangler-wiring-diagrams.19523/

 

[TCogs1]

Hey Thomas:

I'm no such Wrangler electrical engineer, but I bet some of the guys that wrote these are.

Perhaps they can be of help to you.
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/jeep-jl-wrangler-wiring-diagrams.19523/

Thank you very much!
Very helpful... I have been reaching out to Jeepcares and FCA directly ... And no help... but i am just warming up... FCA and Mopar owe us an answer to charging - dual batteries under warranty.. their current line is "mopar approved - installed" and I say "show me".. and they cant.. So we have a BIG problem...

 

[txj2go]

My ESS has not worked since I bought the 2018 JLU used. I can't imagine what could be causing the error except for a bad battery, but it starts fine using the main battery.

 

[Jebiruph]

My ESS has not worked since I bought the 2018 JLU used. I can't imagine what could be causing the error except for a bad battery, but it starts fine using the main battery.

The main battery is the starting battery.

 

[Gee-pah]

@Jebiruph Jerry is, IMHO, the King of knowledge in this subject area, from whom I have learned much.

So I mean no disrespect when I raise this.

It was my understanding that upon driver attempt to crank the engine, the 3.6L JL tests for basic levels of charge in the ESS battery (levels far less than that needed to engage ESS once the vehicle warms up), and with such levels present, connects the ESS battery in parallel with the main one to crank the engine using both batteries.

It's my understanding that but for the above test prior to crank, and ESS events themselves, that in all other situations, including when the 3.6L JL is at rest, that the batteries are connected in parallel--as evidenced by a trickle charger, hooked up solely to the main battery, charging both batteries.

This is why a 3.6L JL with a charged ESS battery alone can crank the engine.

Further, it was my understanding that in the absence of adequate ESS battery charge, model year 2018 3.6L JLs at least would not attempt a cold crank.



But that in model year 2019 3.6Ls and later, as well as 2018's that have been flashed, rather than be stranded with an ill powered ESS battery, upon subsequent driver tries at cranking the engine, the 3.6L JL will throw an error code to the driver but unlike in the 2018 (unflashed) attempt the crank with the main battery.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/3-6l-ess-bad-aux-battery-no-start-firmware-fix.53608/

I'm not saying that model year 2019 3.6L JL's and beyond, with charged ESS batteries, don't use both batteries to crank like in the 2018 (unflashed), but rather that I simply don't know what happens, although I suspect it to be the case that both batteries supply current to the starter in in model year 2018 (unflashed) 3.6L JLs.

Jerry, if you know better, please correct me.

 

[Jebiruph]

@Jebiruph Jerry is, IMHO, the King of knowledge in this subject area, from whom I have learned much.

So I mean no disrespect when I raise this.

It was my understanding that upon driver attempt to crank the engine, the 3.6L JL tests for basic levels of charge in the ESS battery (levels far less than that needed to engage ESS once the vehicle warms up), and with such levels present, connects the ESS battery in parallel with the main one to crank the engine using both batteries.

It's my understanding that but for the above test prior to crank, and ESS events themselves, that in all other situations, including when the 3.6L JL is at rest, that the batteries are connected in parallel--as evidenced by a trickle charger, hooked up solely to the main battery, charging both batteries.

This is why a 3.6L JL with a charged ESS battery alone can crank the engine.

Further, it was my understanding that in the absence of adequate ESS battery charge, model year 2018 3.6L JLs at least would not attempt a cold crank.



But that in model year 2019 3.6Ls and later, as well as 2018's that have been flashed, rather than be stranded with an ill powered ESS battery, upon subsequent driver tries at cranking the engine, the 3.6L JL will throw an error code to the driver but unlike in the 2018 (unflashed) attempt the crank with the main battery.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/3-6l-ess-bad-aux-battery-no-start-firmware-fix.53608/

I'm not saying that model year 2019 3.6L JL's and beyond, with charged ESS batteries, don't use both batteries to crank like in the 2018 (unflashed), but rather that I simply don't know what happens, although I suspect it to be the case that both batteries supply current to the starter in in model year 2018 (unflashed) 3.6L JLs.

Jerry, if you know better, please correct me.

The reason why both the starter and the battery sensor are connected to the main battery is because it is the starting battery and the status of it's ability to restart needs to be verified before an auto stop occurs. The aux battery contributes to a cold start, but it's not the starting battery. Even when Robin helps Batman, Batman is still in charge.

 

[Gee-pah]

The reason why both the starter and the battery sensor are connected to the main battery is because it is the starting battery and the status of it's ability to restart needs to be verified before an auto stop occurs. The aux battery contributes to a cold start, but it's not the starting battery. Even when Robin helps Batman, Batman is still in charge.

Got it. Thanks Jerry.

Without question the main battery on the 3.6L JL will bear most of the brunt starting the engine, but it is supplemented by the ESS/Aux battery, and when the ESS/Aux battery has adequate power, it's been shown that it can effect the crank itself.

What you say above about the battery sensor connected to the main battery to verify its ability to re-crank the engine after an ESS, before that ESS event occurs, and not allow an ESS event to occur if the main battery's charge is questionable, while I absolutely agree with, I'd like to supplement with the idea that the ESS battery itself is also tested for adequate power before an ESS event as well, and that ESS event will as well not occur if the ESS battery is lacking in sufficient power.

And of course, if the ESS battery, adequate in power to allow the vehicle to start an ESS event, loses too much power during an ESS event, that ESS event terminates before the driver takes their foot off the brake pedal, so the engine can crank and the alternator can get back in the business of charging both batteries.

: - )

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