JL Wrangler vs New Ford Bronco

Richtor

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Ford had a desert running 1/2 ton pickup with a good amount of power and they called it the Raptor, apparently named after the dinosaur. Along comes Ram with their 1/2 ton pickup, and they copied every single thing about the Raptor, but added a bigger engine. they even named it TRX, call it the T-Rex, and have a picture of a t-rex dinosaur eating a raptor. You gotta have blinders on if you believe that Ram didn't copy the Raptor. Ram did to Ford the same as Ford is doing to Jeep. "Hey there's a concept that works!" then they benchmark it make their same product be able to just beat the original in every measurable way. It's not a bad thing, IMO, and has been going on for decades.



Ram already had an off road truck, one that is better off road than the Raptor (IMO). It's called the Power Wagon. But it's a different niche than the Raptor. The Raptor was first to the mass produced desert runner niche, and now Ram has entered that. Arguably Wrangler was the only vehicle in the purpose built offroad SUV niche and now Ford is entering that niche. Bronco is to Wrangler as TRX is to Raptor.
I don’t see that at all. Besides the name part. Does the Camry copy the accord? At some point one needs to see they are different vehicles designed for the same purpose.
When I think of copying I think of the same design cues, meaning they look alike. I think vette has been copying Ferrari for years. Whenever Ferrari changed its design so does GM. No coincidence that from a distance the vette looks like a Ferrari.

Getting back to the TRX I’m shocked it took them this long to get an off road truck to market. How many power wagons does dodge sell? It’s an dh truck with sway dis. I looked at the Rebel not the pw before buying my Tremor.





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Richtor

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Yeah they are damned if they do, damned if they don't.

I personally think that the 2-door Bronco looks better than the 2-door Wrangler. Especially the hard top. The proportions are better. I was disappointed they didn't have one at the dealer event.
I think they both look great. I’ve always loved the look of the first Gen Broncos. I actually like the dimensions of both 2 drs. I think the 4drs are too long(they only look decent in my eyes with a lift and 37’s).

If I could have gotten everything I wanted on the JL Rubicon at $40-45k I’d be in one today. Dealer wanted $50k+.

The Bronco gives me the look I loved, the added tech, super crawl ability(95:1) and high speed gallops all for less than the Rubicon. Win win!
 

entropy

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See the below quotes. Supposedly it’s ugly because they “copied” the Jeep.
I feel Jeep copied the early Bronco with its squared off hard top for the JK and now the JL. I’m glad they did, it looks better now.


Much more blatant, how? Did TRX copy the Raptor? No. They built an off road truck. Now if Dodge puts the 6.4 Heim in their half ton Rebel with TRX suspension for $60k. Sell like hot cakes!
I dont give a damn who copy who. I dont care what these corporations do as I dont work for them. All I care is that my Jeep looks nice to me, I like it, and the Bronco is fugly. It is so disproportionate it makes drivers look like oompa loompas.
 

BuyHold

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If you ask me, it looks like pre-production Broncos copy design primarily from the International Scout. Despite 40 years difference the vehicles have identical body lines.

I have always been a fan of IH Scouts.
 

MrMischief

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How many power wagons does dodge sell?
Dodge hasn't sold pickups for something like 13 years now. Ram is the brand that sells pickups. But truly Power Wagon numbers for recent years are proving to be tough to come by. Seems that producers don't share the heavy duty pickup sales information like they do everything else. I found a Ram source showing that the Power Wagon is 5% of all 2500 series produced, but I can't find how many 2500s were produced. But I will see it is not uncommon for me to see a Power Wagon in the wild, so I believe they sell well for being such a niche vehicle.

I looked at the Rebel not the pw before buying my Tremor.
I'm assuming you mean the F-150 tremor based on cross shopping it with a rebel. Sounds to me like you wanted an off road style package rather than an off road pickup. The tremors do look good, but to me they'll always be the JV version of the Raptor.
 

Richtor

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Dodge hasn't sold pickups for something like 13 years now. Ram is the brand that sells pickups. But truly Power Wagon numbers for recent years are proving to be tough to come by. Seems that producers don't share the heavy duty pickup sales information like they do everything else. I found a Ram source showing that the Power Wagon is 5% of all 2500 series produced, but I can't find how many 2500s were produced. But I will see it is not uncommon for me to see a Power Wagon in the wild, so I believe they sell well for being such a niche vehicle.


I'm assuming you mean the F-150 tremor based on cross shopping it with a rebel. Sounds to me like you wanted an off road style package rather than an off road pickup. The tremors do look good, but to me they'll always be the JV version of the Raptor.
Dodge Ram, Ram Ram same thing. Dodge builds the Ram.

250 Tremor. Paid $1k more than the 2dr Rubicon Msrp I was trying to buy. I wanted off road capable and still a capable truck. Plus the 7.3 is not available in the Raptor.
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entropy

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Dodge Ram, Ram Ram same thing. Dodge builds the Ram.

250 Tremor. Paid $1k more than the 2dr Rubicon Msrp I was trying to buy. I wanted off road capable and still a capable truck. Plus the 7.3 is not available in the Raptor.
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We get it richtor. you wanted a pickup truck and not a jeep. Apples to oranges. The fact that truck was only 1k more than a 2D rubicon is meaningless. A Rubicon is a completely different animal. Theyre not even remotely similar vehicles. I feel you are here because you dont understand why we buy jeeps. Id buy a 2 door Rubicon over that tremor anytime, even if the price difference is only 1k. Why? because I want a Jeep, not a pickup truck.
 

Richtor

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We get it richtor. you wanted a pickup truck and not a jeep. Apples to oranges. The fact that truck was only 1k more than a 2D rubicon is meaningless. A Rubicon is a completely different animal. Theyre not even remotely similar vehicles. I feel you are here because you dont understand why we buy jeeps. Id buy a 2 door Rubicon over that tremor anytime, even if the price difference is only 1k. Why? because I want a Jeep, not a pickup truck.
Haha. You are funny. If I’m spending close to $60k I’m not buying a vehicle that can only do one thing as my only vehicle.
Where is your Rubicon?
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entropy

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Haha. You are funny. If I’m spending close to $60k I’m not buying a vehicle that can only do one thing as my only vehicle.
Where is your Rubicon?
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Yeah good for you. I have no idea what that picture of that JK park on a driveway is supposed to mean. And what do you mean where is my Rubicon? I never said I owned a Rubicon. I dont have one, I went the route of modifying my own Jeep and buying a brand new offroad camper. I paid cash for both since I had my own plans. I dont want or need a pickup truck. But if hypothetically somebody offered me a tremor or a rubicon, ill pick a rubicon. JL though, not an old JK.
 

Richtor

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Yeah good for you. I have no idea what that picture of that JK park on a driveway is supposed to mean. And what do you mean where is my Rubicon? I never said I owned a Rubicon. I dont have one, I went the route of modifying my own Jeep and buying a brand new offroad camper. I paid cash for both since I had my own plans. I dont want or need a pickup truck. But if hypothetically somebody offered me a tremor or a rubicon, ill pick a rubicon. JL though, not an old JK.
As opposed to JL on 33 at. Your doors and roof need to be off when wheelin. Closer to nature......
 

entropy

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As opposed to JL on 33 at. Your doors and roof need to be off when wheelin. Closer to nature......
Yeah I mean you are right. It is not just the tire size. It is the plethora of improvements of the JL over the JK. Increased ground clearance, better crawl ratio, better axles, better transmission, tuned engine, improved articulation, etc... etc...
 

Richtor

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Yeah I mean you are right. It is not just the tire size. It is the plethora of improvements of the JL over the JK. Increased ground clearance, better crawl ratio, better axles, better transmission, tuned engine, improved articulation, etc... etc...
So you could purchase a JL in 2012? Hmmm interesting
 

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So you could purchase a JL in 2012? Hmmm interesting
I didnt know we were talking about 2012. Thats why I was so confused about the JK picture. I thought we were talking about JLs since this is the JL forum
 

Richtor

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I didnt know we were talking about 2012. Thats why I was so confused about the JK picture. I thought we were talking about JLs since this is the JL forum
You said buy a Jeep. I did, in 2012. You said the JL is better. It should better as its $18k(about 50% higher) more than what paid for my new 12 Rubicon.
 

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So I got to "see" a couple of Broncos this past weekend. They were in a dealer's parking lot and were not allowed to be test-driven.

Both of the Broncos were 4-doors with soft tops. One was an Outer Banks and one was a Big Bend. The Big Bend had cloth interior and a manual. Outer Banks was automatic.

The interior was a little better than I expected. I liked the grab handles and some of the interior layout. The center stack has some really ugly Ford parts bin parts, for example the AC controls. The layout accommodates larger infotainment and a wireless charging pad for your phone, which I think integrates with wireless CarPlay and Android Auto. I like how the Aux switches are overhead. I didn't like the placement of the window switches and I don't like the rotary TC selector. I like how there is an option for charging ports at the top of the dashboard. Overall, I think the Wrangler interior is much better-looking, but Bronco has better tech.

The Outer Banks had gray/blue interior that was kind of vinyl/leather. It didn't look very good to me.

I also noticed that the doors don't require you to pull off trim pieces and remove bolts for the door checks to disconnect.

Visibility with the soft top down was terrible. Rear visibility overall was poor compared to Wrangler.

Turn indicators in the mirrors and body-colored mirrors on the Outer Banks looked nice. The fenders on the Big Bend didn't look as bad as I thought they would.

I'm a big fan of the frameless windows. Definitely feels and looks more open than a Wrangler with the top down and the doors on.

The interior was very open with the top down without the sport bar, but I think I would miss the dome light and speakers.

Lack of AC vents in the rear of the 4-door was a big miss.

I know styling is subjective. I like the grille and the overall shape and styling. But to me it doesn't look better than a Wrangler from any angle. Obviously the top is a little chopped compared to the Wrangler. The shoulder of the doors is a little higher on the Wrangler. The end effect is that the Bronco feels a little more low-slung than the Wrangler which is more upright, if that makes sense. From the rear they look almost identical. The Front-end has some issues. The bull bar covers the Bronco logo and the winch has to be mounted on top of the bumper (if the bumper even accommodates a winch).

That's all I can speak to without driving it. As it sits in a parking lot, it feels a LOT like a Wrangler. For the causal buyer I can't imagine not cross-shopping it with a Wrangler once it is generally available.
This is one overlook that just baffles me. As well as the lack of rear cup holders. It’s head scratching
 

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