Jeep Wrangler JL/JLU EcoDiesel First Drive Reviews and Performance Specs

[rubileon]

Why would I? I don't have a problem with heavy carbon

You wouldn't know how diesel particulates affect people unless you live in an environment that relies heavily on diesels. There are people the world over having respiratory issues and having their life expectancy reduced as a result of diesel smoke.

Maybe you can look a pregnant woman or a child in the eye and say you "don't have a problem" with them filling their lungs with diesel fumes but that's not a solution for others.

You made several broad generalizations about diesels....I qualified mine and said for towing. That's not a generalization....it's specification.

Ok, so when you voice your opinion, by default it's a "specification" and when someone else says voices theirs, it's a "broad generalization". Got it.

Sponsored

 

[OilBurnerHoldOut]

My truck doesn't ever blow black ever.

We have quite a few tdi vehicles in our parking lot at work, and only a handful of modified trucks actually blow black.

 

[rubileon]

no extra maintenance other than a fuel filter that is easily changed,

If you've never had clogged injectors you either haven't had a diesel long enough or had someone else take care of the maintenance.

I'm not sure what part of any of that is confusing for you or caused so much hostility.

When someone doesn't share your views, they're not being hostile. For example, I never thought you were being hostile.

 

[JLURD]

Sounds to me like you're more of a libertarian....Which I applaud.

We just disagree on the topic of whether or not more population automatically equals a lower standard of living (I'll acknowledge pollution is a major component of that standard, but it alone doesn't tell the entire story).

Standard of living is a much broader issue which is beyond the scope of forum discussions, especially this forum. Suffice to say, I do not believe an increased population automatically yields a lower standard of living. Our world economy is dependent on unlimited population/consumption expansion, so if consumption contracts, so does access to credit and stable currencies...I think we can all agree those two issues much more closely predict standard of living than the climate.

 

[jeepingib]

Find me a single peer reviewed medical research paper finding that current US NOx emissions limits (0.2-0.6 g/mi) or PM emissions limits (0.04-0.08 g/mi) will yield environmental concentrations of either causing cancer, asthma exacerbations, or COPD exacerbations. Again, I’ll wait. The problem with most journalists, especially the ultra-biased folks at Vox is that they don’t have adequate education and/or intelligence to understand the topics on which they report. Some understand the facts fully and intentionally mislead the public to sell advertisements. If you want truth, get yourself closer to the underlying science and figure out which category your favorite journalist fits into...assuming you are capable of understanding the validity and applicability of scientific research.

ETA, still wondering how many kids you have.

Sing it from the mountains brother. Those studies are all based on a single paper that has not been substantiated. As a mechanic I can tell you that I would rather breathe in Diesel exhaust than gasoline. I don't feel like I'm going to be sick when smelling Diesel.

 

[DizzyIzzy]

When the heck did we go from new diesel engine in Jeep wrangler to pregnant women and children and population control. Can we bring it back to the engine offering from Jeep????

My questions are for diesel vehicle owners only please.
- Do you need to get an engine heater for the winter in places where it gets really cold like the Midwest?
- Also what other pros do you see other than the torque and mileage? The towing capacity is the same as gas because of the platform.
- Is your maintenance cost more expensive than a gasoline vehicle for your current diesel vehicles?
- Do you recommend it for people who would use them for short trips in the city and occasional overlanding trips?

 

[rubileon]

Some of my diesels have had 300K on them. I haven't had to do any special maintenance other than oil changes, batteries, alternator, a steering box, one coring hole cover, a reverse light switch, and normal gear oil, trans oil, radiator fluid changes....I also periodically will run a cleaner in the fuel. Knocking on wood right now.....haven't even had to deal with a lift pump going out.

Well then you must be using some kind of magical diesel or you would be having black smoke under hard acceleration.

Just saw you're from OZ, so maybe that's why there's such a dust up over the word generalization. Beats me.

Is that a "specification" or a generalization?

 

[rubileon]

I never said mine doesn't smoke, I said I wasn't worried about it. Reading is fundamental.

Didn't realise your fuss was to agree with me

Neither....the word "maybe" is a supposition or "used to indicate uncertainty or possibility"..... As is the concluding sentence which essentially is trying to guess as to what upset you so much.

Maybe it's one's prejudices that makes them think someone is upset?

 

[Compression-Ignition]

My questions are for diesel vehicle owners only please.
- Do you need to get an engine heater for the winter in places where it gets really cold like the Midwest?
No reason not to, but I think the real answer is no. Plugging in helps ease cold starts and shortens the warmup by a smidgin', but they will start without being plugged in for the most part.
- Also what other pros do you see other than the torque and mileage? The towing capacity is the same as gas because of the platform.
Longevity. It may not seem like they have much when you look at more recent offerings, but IMO it's still there.
Also the fuel itself lasts forever. Diesel pickups, diesel tractors, diesel generator, diesel Jeep. Just makes sense.
- Is your maintenance cost more expensive than a gasoline vehicle for your current diesel vehicles?
Nope.
- Do you recommend it for people who would use them for short trips in the city and occasional overlanding trips?
I wouldn't only because I'd hate to see them disappointed with regens and other issues that may rear their heads with modern diesels that are short tripped. Having said that, we will most likely short trip ours quite a bit. We'll see how it pans out.

I've started my Cummins down at -15 without having it plugged in. But as a standard if I am at home and it's cold say 0 or below I'll plug it in. Once upon a time I made some observations between plugging in and not and it didn't make much of a difference above maybe 20 degrees.

 

[Compression-Ignition]

 

[JLURD]

-Are we talking about the Jeep or diesels in general? For the Jeep specifically....probably the offroad torque, though with a 4:1, I'm not sure that's really much of an issue and the extra weight of the diesel, IMO, works against you offroad.

-It's more expensive in that fuel is now more expensive, you have to have additive for newer models, the oil capacity is higher...so more cost to do the regular maintenance (but not significantly so, IMO), 2 fullsize batteries on 3/4T or larger; otherwise, I haven't personally experienced a lot of additional expenses over gas engine models....but to be fair, they've all been fullsize 3/4T 4x4 trucks, except for 1 2wd non-turbo mini truck.

-I wouldn't recommend it for short trips in the city. Doesn't make sense to get a diesel for that application, IMO. Can't speak to overlanding b/c I don't do that type of wheeling.

The torque multiplication of the drivetrain may allow the 3.6 to create adequate torque for wheeling in most circumstances, but a common theme among the dozen or so reviews of the 3.0 was that the 3.0 is able to wheel in 4H where the 3.6 would be locked in 4L...442lb-ft at 1400rpm more than makes up for the 450 lbs extra it seems.

Fuel may be more expensive for you, but that varies wildly around the country.

Short trip driving can be mitigated with forced DPF regen cycles if the overland range advantage will be used frequently enough to make sense. Another upside for overland use is the fuel is less volatile for transport.

 

[rommel102]

Find me a single peer reviewed medical research paper finding that current US NOx emissions limits (0.2-0.6 g/mi) or PM emissions limits (0.04-0.08 g/mi) will yield environmental concentrations of either causing cancer, asthma exacerbations, or COPD exacerbations. Again, I’ll wait. The problem with most journalists, especially the ultra-biased folks at Vox is that they don’t have adequate education and/or intelligence to understand the topics on which they report. Some understand the facts fully and intentionally mislead the public to sell advertisements. If you want truth, get yourself closer to the underlying science and figure out which category your favorite journalist fits into...assuming you are capable of understanding the validity and applicability of scientific research.

ETA, still wondering how many kids you have.

Nature -Impacts and mitigation of excess diesel-related NOx emissions in 11 major vehicle markets

Enivornmental Research Letters - Impact of excess NOx emissions from diesel cars on air quality, public health and eutrophication in Europe

Archives of Toxicology - Diesel exhaust: current knowledge of adverse effects and underlying cellular mechanisms

European Respitory Journal - Health effects of diesel exhaust emissions (this ones from 2001)

As a reminder in 2012 the International Agency for Research on Cancer reclassified diesel engine exhaust as a Class 1 Carcinogen.

The science is crystal clear...diesel emissions are bad.

But so are regular gasloine emissions, just in different ways. As long as people are responsible with their diesels I say bravo to Jeep for finally having one on the market.

 

[Frostbit]

When the heck did we go from new diesel engine in Jeep wrangler to pregnant women and children and population control. Can we bring it back to the engine offering from Jeep????

My questions are for diesel vehicle owners only please.
- Do you need to get an engine heater for the winter in places where it gets really cold like the Midwest?
- Also what other pros do you see other than the torque and mileage? The towing capacity is the same as gas because of the platform.
- Is your maintenance cost more expensive than a gasoline vehicle for your current diesel vehicles?
- Do you recommend it for people who would use them for short trips in the city and occasional overlanding trips?

I have two Cummins Rams. A 1996 12V that is fully mechanical, has 146,000 miles on it and has NO maintenance costs other than oil and fuel filter change. I have had pump work done to it and an exhaust brake added that required valve spring upgrades. It runs like a top and is the perfect Zombie Apocalypse rig.

My 2006 Cummins dually has an Edge tune with five settings, a 5 inch exhaust with brake and is our dedicated Bigfoot truck camper hauler. We do mega Roadtrips out of Alaska every other year averaging between 15,000 to 20,000 miles over 6-7 months. We hunt out of it in Alaska and take it on roads that would make a Jeep proud. It sits right at GVWR and gets 12MPG at that load regardless of temperature or altitude.

They both have block heaters we use below 20 degrees for the initial start of the day and we use antigel additive through our winter. They are not garage kept.

added on edit: The 2006 Dually camper hauler just turned 200,000 miles.

 

[JLURD]

Not sure I can get behind that 4H v 4L....if you do the actual calcs for gear reduction vs. engine tq....which isn't even given as wheel torque, the two can't be that close. Granted, I haven't done them so I don't know.....I just have my doubts b/c you're multiply by 4 for the tcase in the 4L 3.6 scenario.

Don’t bother with the 4L to 4H calculation. All the 3.0 is doing is filling the deficit preventing the 3.6 and 2.0 from doing things in 4H. That’s down to the engine torque specs alone.

 

[JLURD]

Nature -Impacts and mitigation of excess diesel-related NOx emissions in 11 major vehicle markets

Enivornmental Research Letters - Impact of excess NOx emissions from diesel cars on air quality, public health and eutrophication in Europe

Archives of Toxicology - Diesel exhaust: current knowledge of adverse effects and underlying cellular mechanisms

European Respitory Journal - Health effects of diesel exhaust emissions (this ones from 2001)

As a reminder in 2012 the International Agency for Research on Cancer reclassified diesel engine exhaust as a Class 1 Carcinogen.

The science is crystal clear...diesel emissions are bad.

But so are regular gasloine emissions, just in different ways. As long as people are responsible with their diesels I say bravo to Jeep for finally having one on the market.

Is this a joke? How many times are you going to pretend you understand health or environmental science before you admit that you do not? You just linked a series of articles that either prove my point or provide zero evidence conflicting with it. I probably shouldn’t have wasted my time looking at them when you somehow managed to include an open access journal, but suffice to say, if every vehicle on the road was polluting at the levels of the gen3 3.0, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Or maybe we would because the abuse of science by folks like yourself and the media in service of personal interests never ends.

Sponsored