KnG818
Well-Known Member
Not off road situations thoughElectric vehicles like stop and go they recharge with braking
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Not off road situations thoughElectric vehicles like stop and go they recharge with braking
True, lol...taking Hell's Revenge at 45mph right?
What is Jeep claiming the MPG is going to be on PHEV?
One vehicle? Doubtful. If you're really wheeling it, it's not going to be a DD for long...though you're right; the vast majority of Jeep owners don't wheel at all....or do some pretty mild stuff.
We don't have much to go on with the JL, but the Renegade PHEV has a separate rear electric motor that isn't tied into the rest of the powertrain like the Pacifica is. The system is called eAWD, and uses ICE for the front wheels and electric for the rear without any connections between the two. (For those wondering about how the Pacicia works, check this informative link).Again, this comes down to how the software engineers layout how the regen system works. It *could* be a clusterfuck like Toyota's first A-Trac and hill descent controls that I've witnessed slow the brakes to a point where they didn't pulse as designed to help stop skid, but made it much, much worse on extremely steep, low traction downhills. Or, they could get it dialed in right and it will work great. My guess is the latter, though it may come after a few model years of screw ups too.
This is why I said I think we'll be getting a dual EV motor JL vs the single rear motor of the Renegade.Your comment has me confused...
You mean in EV only mode, the PHEV JL would only be powered by the rear electric motor like the Renegade now? If that's the case, you wouldn't be using it on the trail anyway.
The PHEV would have to have 4WD capability (with true low range) or as soon as you shift into 4wd, the point is moot.
As you said, without 4WD EV mode, it only gives MPG for highway use (something I suspect is the actual driver of this to conform to tightening EPA standards)....which makes the PHEV JL/JLU even less of an 'incremental' stepping stone.
Usually the electric motors are integrated in the transmission or they're in between the ICE and the transmission. Essentially what Chrysler did with the Durango Hybrid back in 2009 but hopefully they'll build more than 9 of them...I'd guess it would still be enough...but again, if it's only one electric motor, in the rear...it's worthless offroad. If it's two...then you've got even more weight but at least it would be viable on the trail.
That said, I know guys running 3 gallon tanks in lightweight buggies that run all day to the trail and back...but they are on fumes when they get to the trailer and they are much shorter trips mileage wise...maybe 12-15 miles at most. So, averaging 4-5 mpg on turbo'd 4cyls or V6s (the V8s are almost always running a 10 gallon tank for that reason).
Brings up another point....where would this extra motor even fit? It can't go up front. You almost need a motor where the tcase sits that splits power f/r.
No, based on that alone, I'm betting this whole PHEV thing is a circle jerk for EPA regulations. I am now very skeptical you'll get an actual 4WD version EV in the JL/JLU.
They have little choice if they want to meet EU emission limits. Now they pay Tesla to avoid EU fines, and not just a bit...I'd guess that the PHEV Wrangler might have some offroading advantage As compared to a traditional ICE Wrangler. But I would be very surprised if the goal of the PHEV isn't just more sales to the general public. Major fuel mileage boosts to the Wrangler is far more valuable (to FCA and sales) than increasing off-road torque.
That's true. But they have the choice in how they do it. They can do it in a way that just improves emissions/MPG or they can do it in a way that also adds off-road capability.They have little choice if they want to meet EU emission limits. Now they pay Tesla to avoid EU fines, and not just a bit...
"Fiat Chrysler Automobiles has agreed to pay Tesla hundreds of millions of euros so the electric carmaker’s vehicles are counted in its fleet in order to avoid large fines for breaking tough new EU emissions rules."
That's the Pacifica model. Hopefully they don't go that route because I doubt we'd be able to get any benefit of pure EV 4WD out of it...it would essentially have to power the entire traditional transmission and drivetrain and would be far less efficient than independent motors at the wheels. Maybe I'm wrong and Jeep designs some amazing intra-transmission motor setup.Usually the electric motors are integrated in the transmission or they're in between the ICE and the transmission. Essentially what Chrysler did with the Durango Hybrid back in 2009 but hopefully they'll build more than 9 of them...
It's worth noting that there are already converted fully EV Jeep Wranglers in the wild that have run the Rubicon Trail.
I think you guys are on to something here. I would like to see a full electric Wrangler with an on-board ICE to charge the batteries. Sort of like the diesel-electric locomotives. You could ditch the transmission completely, and possibly even the transfer case.The resistance is just from people that are unaware or haven't tried today's EVs, or who are romantically attached to the past legacy of the Jeep. It's very similar to the long-running manual vs automatic discussion.
If I could build a magical wish list for a Jeep to hardcore off-road it would look like a fully electric Jeep. Instantaneous monster torque, no wheel slippage, no clutch delay, no downblast of air spewing dust everywhere. In an ideal EV, quad EV motors means no differentials, immediate and precise power to each wheel, better traction control, etc. Water fording concerns are eliminated completely (aside from floating your rig away) and it becomes infintiely easier to lift your Jeep without all of the complexities of an ICE engine. And you can save a boatload of weight by ditching all the underarmor for all of that equipment as well. All while getting closer to nature than ever before because your vehicle never makes more than a dull whine all day long.
A PHEV should be an incremental step to that dream rig.
Is nobody going to talk about water and all those wires and batteries?! LolThis is why I said I think we'll be getting a dual EV motor JL vs the single rear motor of the Renegade.
The single motor on the Renegade is already capable of delivering power independently to each wheel, with an "electric diff" that can instantly transfer power. So you don't really need 4 motors (until you get to the ultimate pure EV Jeep).