Jeep Wrangler 4xe will be name of PHEV Hybrid Electric model. Coming late 2020

rommel102

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I've already put up a link to a Hybrid Transmission that ZF already makes. Something like that has the electric motors as part of the transmission and doesn't require a radical redesign of the entire drive-train like a full electric drive would.
The Pacifica already used such a system. But it would be horribily inefficient at delivering power to the wheels.





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Toycrusher

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I think you guys are on to something here. I would like to see a full electric Wrangler with an on-board ICE to charge the batteries. Sort of like the diesel-electric locomotives. You could ditch the transmission completely, and possibly even the transfer case.
Problem is, you would need a full sized ICE, along with fuel system, exhaust system, cooling, etc just to provide the needed power to the EV motor. Then you would need your EV motor, controller, drivetrain, cooling, battery, etc to actually power the Jeep. In the end, you have 2x the cost for zero benefit as they gas engine is more efficient powering the wheels directly than it is generating, converting, storing, converting, and powering and electric motor.
 

Sean L

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The Pacifica already used such a system. But it would be horribily inefficient at delivering power to the wheels.
how would it be inefficient? The Pacifica Hybrid is dramatically more efficient than the non hybrid van.
 

Arterius2

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The resistance is just from people that are unaware or haven't tried today's EVs, or who are romantically attached to the past legacy of the Jeep. It's very similar to the long-running manual vs automatic discussion.

If I could build a magical wish list for a Jeep to hardcore off-road it would look like a fully electric Jeep. Instantaneous monster torque, no wheel slippage, no clutch delay, no downblast of air spewing dust everywhere. In an ideal EV, quad EV motors means no differentials, immediate and precise power to each wheel, better traction control, etc. Water fording concerns are eliminated completely (aside from floating your rig away) and it becomes infintiely easier to lift your Jeep without all of the complexities of an ICE engine. And you can save a boatload of weight by ditching all the underarmor for all of that equipment as well. All while getting closer to nature than ever before because your vehicle never makes more than a dull whine all day long.

A PHEV should be an incremental step to that dream rig.
While I agree with some of the points, there are a lot of optimism and wishful thinking there.
Going to EV, you won't shed any weight but actually quite the opposite. Batteries are extremely heavy, and if you just look at the some of the competitions out there you'd be dragging around 6000-10,000 lb all the time. PHEV will have the inclusion of both electric components as well as a "ICE generator".

Secondly, If you know anything about flooded Teslas, you would know that water and electric components don't mix.
 

Toycrusher

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I personally love the idea of a PHEV Wrangler, IF they can keep it reasonable. Weight is the enemy of performance, a 1000 lb battery would be counter-productive. But if we could get a 20 mile full EV street range, that would equal a 5 mile off-road range, which is enough for many trails, especially if the gas motor kicks in at, say, 20 mph.

I also DEMAND that this PHEV system be available with a manual transmission. It would replace the start/stop system, pull up to a light and the engine dies, no need to clutch. Pull away and at 20 mph the gas motor kicks in and takes over. Terrific for 4Lo crawling in silence without giving up full throttle dune running.
 

rommel102

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Not the type that Rommel is talking about. One with a motor attached directly to each wheel. That type of drive-train would take a while to get into a practical size I think.
For reference, here are the much more powerful Tesla motors in the D series. Anything under the JL would be the size of the Rear Drive unit or smaller most likely.

Model-X-dual-drive.jpg
 

Sean L

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For reference, here are the much more powerful Tesla motors in the D series. Anything under the JL would be the size of the Rear Drive unit or smaller most likely.

Model-X-dual-drive.jpg
If FCA partnered with Tesla it would be a pretty cool setup, but since this Wrangler PHEV is being developed in house, I don't think FCA has the tech at that level yet.
 

rommel102

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I've built 4x4 electric rigs with quad motors. A differential with a locker is far superior. Under high load, like lifting wheels caddy-corner, it ends up functioning like a rig with open diffs, the wheels in the air spin like crazy and there isn't enough torque to get the wheels with traction moving, at least not in a slow controlled manner like you would want when wheeling. A single motor and traditional t-case and driveline is the preferred solution for slow speed crawling
You don't present any technical details so while I respect your experience, I doubt that a purpose-built electric 4WD system designed from the ground up for traction and off-roading would function in a similar manner. Software or new hardware can replicate the function of all kinds of diffs. With power available at each wheel, it is simply a manner of designing a system to deploy it properly.

The Renegade's eAWD system is apparently capable of indepenent wheel power delivery similar to a limited-slip diff.

From what we've seen out of Rivian for example they are building extremely capable off-road machines, with precision torque delivery to each wheel as well.

 

AnnDee4444

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Problem is, you would need a full sized ICE
With some battery capacity, I don't think you would need a full sized ICE. The ICE would just need enough power for the overall average load. The ICE could also be highly efficient in comparison, as it would only have to target one specific RPM (like a portable generator).
 

BigGreen

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As long as you have a tow rig to get you to and from the trail, full EV Wranglers are a great idea
This is the big oversight I see people making with things like the Rivian. It may have 200 miles of range, but at full speed on the freeway, fully loaded, that's going to be cut down to a third. Unless there's a fast charger at the trailhead, you're stuck.
 

Stampede.Offroad

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Electric motors are great, but we've known that for like a century (electric automobiles were invented around the same time as ICE ones were). Its the batteries and charging solutions that suck. While we have made some improvements in the last few decades, they still suck compared to the energy density of liquid fuels, and that is highly unlikely to change in the next couple decades either.

Electric works great for commuter/efficiency vehicles, and short distance commercial vehicles, but its awful for pretty much anything else. Batteries (ie energy storage) are heavy as hell per unit of work, and "fast" charging has major thermodynamic limitations.

Maybe next year when we all live on space stations it will be a good solution for my flying car. :turkey:
 

rallydefault

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Electric works great for commuter/efficiency vehicles, and short distance commercial vehicles, but its awful for pretty much anything else.
Some would say commuter/efficiency and short distance commercial are the majority or pretty darn close to the majority of vehicles on the road.
 

56nomad56

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Problem is, you would need a full sized ICE, along with fuel system, exhaust system, cooling, etc just to provide the needed power to the EV motor. Then you would need your EV motor, controller, drivetrain, cooling, battery, etc to actually power the Jeep. In the end, you have 2x the cost for zero benefit as they gas engine is more efficient powering the wheels directly than it is generating, converting, storing, converting, and powering and electric motor.
You don't need a full-sized ICE. While obviously lighter and smaller, the Volt (1.5L 4) and the BMW i3 (0.65L 2-cylinder from a scooter) use small displacement engines to generate power for the electric motor. The 1.5L in the Volt gives it a total range of 420 miles (8.9 gallon fuel tank) and an MPGE of 106. So... no it's not double the cost for zero benefit. Especially since most of the time you're running on electric power only and using no gas at all.
 

MORTON

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For reference, here are the much more powerful Tesla motors in the D series. Anything under the JL would be the size of the Rear Drive unit or smaller most likely.

Model-X-dual-drive.jpg
My buddy has a Tesla and says it’s terrible for trips, repair times are terrible and loss of value is equally as bad. He said he would never recommend one. I drove it and it’s nice but it seems like they put the cart before the horse, infrastructure for support in terms of repairs and charging stations just aren’t there. He got the home charger and said his electricity bill tripled.
 

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