Dusty

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I'm intrigued with the tax credit alone. Say I'm getting a 4k back in taxes does that mean I have the potential to get $11,500 back or is it only if you owe taxes? I thought I read it that way from a post here on the forum.
Right, but you'll still owe $60,000 for the Jeep plus sales tax, license fees and insurance.





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SolarWizard

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I’ve done hundreds of millions of dollars in solar tax credits for people.
the credit is a reduction in tax liability to the federal government. If you’re making enough to safely pay for the Jeep, you’re making enough to qualify generally.

absolutely recommend talking to a CPA first though
 

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IIRC, the federal credits expire after a certain number are used, which is why Tesla no longer has them. Does anyone know how many FCA has left. I don't really need a precise number, just want to know if they are going to cover all of the Wrangler hybrids sold for the next 6 months or so. Strongly considering picking one up.
 

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IIRC, the federal credits expire after a certain number are used, which is why Tesla no longer has them. Does anyone know how many FCA has left. I don't really need a precise number, just want to know if they are going to cover all of the Wrangler hybrids sold for the next 6 months or so. Strongly considering picking one up.
Through June 2020, FCA had 153,000 more of the 200,000 they could sell with the credit.
 

yngrshr

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So the way it works is, you need to have at least a $7,500 tax liability in the year you purchase the vehicle (AFTER deductions). This is not what you OWE, but your liability. Lets say you have a fed tax liability of $14,000, but you prepaid (deducted from your paychecks) $16,000 already. Normally you would get a $2,000 refund. If you purchase a car with the $7,500 fed credit, then it would reduce your liability by $7,500 making it $6,500. Since you prepaid 16,000 already, you would get the difference of $9,500 back.
Yep. This was actually best answered on a Tesla forum (I had to look around for a while).

The wife and I decided that the 4xE was the way we were going after it was announced. The tax credit alone makes it worth it. If dealers play ball on pricing (already talking with Koons and one other), it'll be solid. Hoping the uncharge is around the Pacifica (a bit over $5000-ish).
 

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That's right. But since an electric engine provides maximum torque at extremely low RPM, the difference can be substantial exactly in off-road situations.
for 10 minutes, then what? Guarantee this will not hold up to the rubicon or dusy trail... did you see the battery size... lots of smoke and mirrors from fca on this... I hope I’m wrong, but the math is not adding up.
 

KSpider

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for 10 minutes, then what? Guarantee this will not hold up to the rubicon or dusy trail... did you see the battery size... lots of smoke and mirrors from fca on this... I hope I’m wrong, but the math is not adding up.
What is the smoke and mirrors on battery size? You realize this is pretty much standard for PHEV?

FCA says the 4xe did the entire rubicon on electric mode/1 charge.
 

Ismor

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for 10 minutes, then what? Guarantee this will not hold up to the rubicon or dusy trail... did you see the battery size... lots of smoke and mirrors from fca on this... I hope I’m wrong, but the math is not adding up.
This isn't a pure EV - Seems to me it has an internal combustion engine that charges the battery, so the electric engine is always on, providing torque at low RPM.
 

TCogs1

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This isn't a pure EV - Seems to me it has an internal combustion engine that charges the battery, so the electric engine is always on, providing torque at low RPM.

Yep, I understand, I had a chevy volt for many years. When the battery is dead.. its dead and so is the additional torque - hp.. maybe the assumption is the motor can charge and propel at the same torque - hp, but i doubt it.
 

TCogs1

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What is the smoke and mirrors on battery size? You realize this is pretty much standard for PHEV?

FCA says the 4xe did the entire rubicon on electric mode/1 charge.
Yes the battery size is very small for a 5k lb vehicle to be useful, chevy Volt same batt size, 1500 lbs lighter, lucky to get 30miles on charge. So mode 1 and the quote from Jim Morris implies, he was in hybrid mode..

17kw and powering 134 hp and 181 lb-ft 100Kw electric motor does not equal 25 miles rolling 5klbs up and down 4k ft dirt roads. Real world pure electric mode, you will be lucky to see 20miles if you stay under 50mph in California highways (hills - mountains),

You wont even get to the trail head of the rubicon.. I guess if magically started the trail head with a full battery and use esaver or hybrid, I could see it making the trail, but not electric only. simple math does not calc, REF: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/1684077 remember your climbing both street and offroad 4k ft, it is not about the specific distance of the trail. Its gas - charging station to station that matters.

hope that's clarifies my humble opinion.
 

RubiTuesday

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Yes the battery size is very small for a 5k lb vehicle to be useful, chevy Volt same batt size, 1500 lbs lighter, lucky to get 30miles on charge. So mode 1 and the quote from Jim Morris implies, he was in hybrid mode..
"Morrison said the 4xe completed the Rubicon in all-electric mode with no problems." Source
or
"The Rubicon Trail is only 22 miles long, and a Wrangler 4xe covered it entirely on electric power with no issues, Morrison said." Source

The quote is pretty clear, it doesn't appear that he was referring to hybrid mode.

You wont even get to the trail head of the rubicon.. I guess if magically started the trail head with a full battery and use esaver or hybrid, I could see it making the trail, but not electric only. simple math does not calc, REF: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/1684077 remember your climbing both street and offroad 4k ft, it is not about the specific distance of the trail. Its gas - charging station to station that matters.

hope that's clarifies my humble opinion.
You could absolutely get to the trail head with a full charge, that's the whole point of the eSave E select mode. From the FCA press release: "eSave: Prioritizes propulsion from the 2.0-liter engine, saving the battery charge for later use, such as EV off-roading or urban areas where internal combustion propulsion is restricted. The driver can also choose between Battery Save and Battery Charge during eSave via the Hybrid Electric Pages in the Uconnect monitor."

That said, I'm still skeptical about how they pulled this off. I'm looking forward to a lot more, nitty gritty, detail about the 4xe itself and this Rubicon run. If it's on the up and up, I expect we'll be hearing a lot more about it. It's great marketing. FCA will have footage from their test and/or will fly the auto journalists out for a press event on the Rubicon just like they've done for other vehicles. How do I get an invite to that? :jk:
 
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TCogs1

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"Morrison said the 4xe completed the Rubicon in all-electric mode with no problems." Source
or
"The Rubicon Trail is only 22 miles long, and a Wrangler 4xe covered it entirely on electric power with no issues, Morrison said." Source

The quote is pretty clear, it doesn't appear that he was referring to hybrid mode.



You could absolutely get to the trail head with a full charge, that's the whole point of the eSave E select mode. From the FCA press release: "eSave: Prioritizes propulsion from the 2.0-liter engine, saving the battery charge for later use, such as EV off-roading or urban areas where internal combustion propulsion is restricted. The driver can also choose between Battery Save and Battery Charge during eSave via the Hybrid Electric Pages in the Uconnect monitor."

That said, I'm still skeptical about how they pulled this off. I'm looking forward to a lot more, nitty gritty, detail about the 4xe itself and this Rubicon run. If it's on the up and up, I expect we'll be hearing a lot more about it. It's great marketing. FCA will have footage from their test and/or will fly the auto journalists out for a press event on the Rubicon just like they've done for other vehicles. How do I get an invite to that? :jk:
Just so we are clear, math and physics are irrelevant. As I stated, smoke and mirrors....

I will stand with proven science, that Jeep did not do the rubicon trail (loon lake to Tahoe) on pure electric. Prove it.
 
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Just so we are clear, math and physics are irrelevant. As I stated, smoke and mirrors....

I will stand with proven science, that Jeep did not do the rubicon trail (loon lake to Tahoe) on pure electric. Prove it.
Funny how it's always the deniers that are asking for proof...

My guess is the 25 mile range is based off of traveling somewhere between 25mph and 55mph, where wind resistance is actually a factor with the box on wheels.

On the trail that is not a factor. And they definitely went to the trailhead using the ICE only, they aren't claiming they didn't. Just that it was able to complete the trail using electric only mode from start to finish.

If you are just going to trash the option, do yourself a favor and don't buy it, nobody is forcing you to. Let the rest of us who are actually interested in it discuss the specs and get excited for a powertrain we've been waiting for.
 

Ismor

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Yep, I understand, I had a chevy volt for many years. When the battery is dead.. its dead and so is the additional torque - hp.. maybe the assumption is the motor can charge and propel at the same torque - hp, but i doubt it.
From the Jeep materials I read, the battery can never be "dead". It is constantly charged by the internal combustion engine.
 

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