michail

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Apr 22, 2021
Messages
536
Reaction score
247
Location
Florida
Vehicle(s)
2021 Sahara 4xe
What goes up must come down......at least electrified powertrains can recapture a good amount of the energy on the other side of the hill. I'd bet there is less dropoff than in a pure ICE. ICE's are least efficient (excluding diesels) at low load/low speed and under frequently changing power demands, which they often are operating in when going slow in low range. Electric motor efficiency is pretty static under all conditions.
I forget the numbers, but I had a long round trip drive where I had a 4000 foot elevation change. By the end I had an impressive electric range on the trip computer. Coming down on nothing but regen I picked up 5 miles.

Of course, it was at the expense of all that gas to build up the potential energy.

TFL overlooked the same thing they did on a 4xe video. The engine came on just before they reached the summit. They stopped the video there and didn't say anything about the drive back down.
Advertisement

 

Badfish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2021
Messages
108
Reaction score
158
Location
Scottsdale AZ
Vehicle(s)
2021 JLURXR / Tesla Model 3
Occupation
Retired fisherman
As you can imagine, any video about Tesla generates a lot of interest, and I think Sandy stumbled onto this phenomenon with his early Tesla videos and now has introduces other types of videos to grow that online community. It leads to videos like this, which feel like a video team he’s hired asking him to do something but his comfort level with the format isn‘t great and he’d probably rather be doing other things. His authenticity is both a strength and a weakness in this way.
yeah being a pretty popular guest on Autoline he figured he should monetize it in some fashion.
 

SnB4xe

Well-Known Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
May 2, 2021
Messages
171
Reaction score
106
Location
Mesa AZ
Vehicle(s)
Wrangler High Altitude 4xe
It will be interesting to see how far the new electric-only trucks can go on steep mountain trails on a single charge, compared to ICE vehicles.
Steep ascents appear to be absolute range killers, especially when hauling a jerrycan is not an option.
Initial testing and reports that I have seen indicate a BEV's range while on trail with reasonable to significant elevation change is about 1/3rd of EPA rated range on pavement. This means folks who own BEVs up North in cold climates will feel lucky to 'only' lose 40% of their range to cold weather.

Isn't it about the same with an ICE Wrangler though? 16 mpg on surface streets becomes about 5-6 miles per gallon on the trail? Probably hard to measure because many folks really don't burn through a full tank of fuel solely on the trail so it would be easy to exaggerate the mpg while off road.
 

HungryHound

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rick
Joined
Dec 24, 2020
Messages
754
Reaction score
1,423
Location
TN & FL
Vehicle(s)
1975 CJ-5, 1983 CJ-5, 1987 YJ, 1998 TJ
I forget the numbers, but I had a long round trip drive where I had a 4000 foot elevation change. By the end I had an impressive electric range on the trip computer. Coming down on nothing but regen I picked up 5 miles.

Of course, it was at the expense of all that gas to build up the potential energy.

TFL overlooked the same thing they did on a 4xe video. The engine came on just before they reached the summit. They stopped the video there and didn't say anything about the drive back down.
We gained 24% battery coming down the mountain into Pagosa Springs, CO. Best part was not having to use the service brakes or downshifting on the steep grade. Max regen did all the work.
 

GATORB8

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
May 30, 2021
Messages
1,494
Reaction score
1,562
Location
CLT NC
Vehicle(s)
21 JLUR 4xe
Initial testing and reports that I have seen indicate a BEV's range while on trail with reasonable to significant elevation change is about 1/3rd of EPA rated range on pavement. This means folks who own BEVs up North in cold climates will feel lucky to 'only' lose 40% of their range to cold weather.

Isn't it about the same with an ICE Wrangler though? 16 mpg on surface streets becomes about 5-6 miles per gallon on the trail? Probably hard to measure because many folks really don't burn through a full tank of fuel solely on the trail so it would be easy to exaggerate the mpg while off road.
Be interesting to hear others, but we don't run in Electric "mode" off road (or on the street), we run in Hybrid. Why limit power to one or the other when you're in a situation when you'd prefer all 470 ft lbs.

We ran 11 mile moderate off road mountain trail this weekend (1800 vertical ft) starting at 35% and ending at 5% in hybrid mode max regen 4hi. I'd guess we were ICE off 60%+ of the time. I'll have to reset the trip odo next time we do one.

The electric torque availability is fantastic for high pitch and obstacle climbs. 4hi was much more comfortable than 4 lo because of it. Thinking now, the Max Regen may have made 4 lo worse, but it was difficult to maintain smooth throttle in low range because vehicle movement would cause enough movement on the accelerator to buck in 4lo @~2-2.5k.

Vehicle braking control in Max Regen is fantastic going down the mountain.
 

IdahoJOAT

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rodger
Joined
May 12, 2020
Messages
309
Reaction score
291
Location
Caldwell, ID
Vehicle(s)
Bikini Pearl '20 JLUR 2.0T A/T, Black '05 Silverado DRW Duramax Flatbed
Vehicle Showcase
1
This was painful to watch.

If anyone is wondering, these were his takes:

1. He hates brown
2. The SOT was his idea, except he wanted it manual, he likes it.
3. The SOT window bag would get thrown in his garage and stay there until he dies. Instead he would lay the windows in the back with styrofoam
4. The oil fill cap is too far for him to reach
5. The BFG KO2s are the same tires as the Goodyears on his JK?
6. There's not enough room under the hood to throw a squirrel in there.
7. He thinks the hood latches are too expensive
8. He doesn't like that the HV system turns off and turns on the ICE when he opens the hood with the Jeep running , because it might run him over.

Basically the same things your MIL would say if she had never seen a JL.
The window bag part was where I switched videos. That whole video was PAINFUL. It's a disservice to do that to him. Not go in cold, he should do that. That's the first impression.

But he SHOULD have a 4xe owner there with him going, "No, Sandy, that bag is for the windows. Let me show you-"

And then his FINAL thought on it would be, "So initially when I didn't know what it was for, I didn't like it at all, but now seeing them stowed securely and protected from cargo or damage, that bag idea is really great."
 

IdahoJOAT

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rodger
Joined
May 12, 2020
Messages
309
Reaction score
291
Location
Caldwell, ID
Vehicle(s)
Bikini Pearl '20 JLUR 2.0T A/T, Black '05 Silverado DRW Duramax Flatbed
Vehicle Showcase
1
I forget the numbers, but I had a long round trip drive where I had a 4000 foot elevation change. By the end I had an impressive electric range on the trip computer. Coming down on nothing but regen I picked up 5 miles.

Of course, it was at the expense of all that gas to build up the potential energy.

TFL overlooked the same thing they did on a 4xe video. The engine came on just before they reached the summit. They stopped the video there and didn't say anything about the drive back down.
Oh I watched the sit down video where ol dad dude talks about the event they went to with Jeep and the 4xe, and he basically bashes on it. Notably he bashed on the regen. Like he expected the battery to be charging as if it's plugged into a wall WHILE the ICE is pulling the Jeep down the road.

He stated they drove about 2.5 hours and got back like less than 5% battery, when I've seen multiple people on here get back way more than that.
 

stickling9

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chris
Joined
Jul 1, 2021
Messages
46
Reaction score
38
Location
61525
Vehicle(s)
2021 4xe; 2013 vw gli; 2015 Yukon Denali
Occupation
engineer
Yep. The way the 4xe was engineered, going PHEV without sacrificing what makes a Wrangler a Wrangler shows a tremendous amount of thought put into it.

It's amusing reading the misinformed (other media/forums) belittle the 4xe battery-only range. They mention the ~300 mile EV range of the competition forgetting that, when off road, that 300 miles might end up being 10-15 miles and then when the battery runs down, what will the EV-only off roaders do?

It would be interesting indeed to see the 11,000 Hummer climb a trail and have enough juice to then go home. Jeep did it right. We are a long way off from lightweight, high capacity endurance battery cells for off road.
agreed, the range may seem short, but we can run around town with mixed driving for 4-5 hours of errands. Works perfect. Seems we get back with just a few miles on hybrid. Energy cost estimate at $0.09 per kWh charging once per day is about $1200 to $1500 a year savings over fuel cost. I do use premium since turbo (reduced coking I think). Our 6.2L Yukon was also premium. But we feel the 'short range' works well for us.
 

GATORB8

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
May 30, 2021
Messages
1,494
Reaction score
1,562
Location
CLT NC
Vehicle(s)
21 JLUR 4xe
Oh I watched the sit down video where ol dad dude talks about the event they went to with Jeep and the 4xe, and he basically bashes on it. Notably he bashed on the regen. Like he expected the battery to be charging as if it's plugged into a wall WHILE the ICE is pulling the Jeep down the road.

He stated they drove about 2.5 hours and got back like less than 5% battery, when I've seen multiple people on here get back way more than that.
Damn, just lost another 15 minutes of my lift watching the other Sandy 4xe video.

1. Hates the grab handle on the A-Pillar, wishes it had one hanging.... like the optional Mopar one he doesn't know about.
2. "I've already got it in 4 Lo" camera pans down and he's in 4 Hi.
3. He doesn't endorse go pro because it ran out of battery?
agreed, the range may seem short, but we can run around town with mixed driving for 4-5 hours of errands. Works perfect. Seems we get back with just a few miles on hybrid. Energy cost estimate at $0.09 per kWh charging once per day is about $1200 to $1500 a year savings over fuel cost. I do use premium since turbo (reduced coking I think). Our 6.2L Yukon was also premium. But we feel the 'short range' works well for us.
We run higher octane for better performance per the manual, but I was listening to an episode of the Jeep Talk Show podcast (probably an old one) where they had a quality engineer from a refinery on. IIRC, he said that the additives used in higher octane fuels actually tend to create additional residual residue in their tests.
 

TimmH

Well-Known Member
First Name
Timm
Joined
Sep 18, 2018
Messages
620
Reaction score
683
Location
Florida
Vehicle(s)
2018 JL Wrangler Sahara 3.6 Auto
Vehicle Showcase
1
Am I the only one that figured he left the vehicle in RUN mode and it was on, but when he opened the hood latch, the ESS hood switch triggered the motor to start.
 

IdahoJOAT

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rodger
Joined
May 12, 2020
Messages
309
Reaction score
291
Location
Caldwell, ID
Vehicle(s)
Bikini Pearl '20 JLUR 2.0T A/T, Black '05 Silverado DRW Duramax Flatbed
Vehicle Showcase
1
Am I the only one that figured he left the vehicle in RUN mode and it was on, but when he opened the hood latch, the ESS hood switch triggered the motor to start.
Nope, that's what we're all screaming at.
 

michail

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Apr 22, 2021
Messages
536
Reaction score
247
Location
Florida
Vehicle(s)
2021 Sahara 4xe
Be interesting to hear others, but we don't run in Electric "mode" off road (or on the street), we run in Hybrid. Why limit power to one or the other when you're in a situation when you'd prefer all 470 ft lbs.

We ran 11 mile moderate off road mountain trail this weekend (1800 vertical ft) starting at 35% and ending at 5% in hybrid mode max regen 4hi. I'd guess we were ICE off 60%+ of the time. I'll have to reset the trip odo next time we do one.

The electric torque availability is fantastic for high pitch and obstacle climbs. 4hi was much more comfortable than 4 lo because of it. Thinking now, the Max Regen may have made 4 lo worse, but it was difficult to maintain smooth throttle in low range because vehicle movement would cause enough movement on the accelerator to buck in 4lo @~2-2.5k.

Vehicle braking control in Max Regen is fantastic going down the mountain.
If you floor it in electric mode it will still give maximum output. It just sets a bias.

I keep it in electric to prevent the engine from turning on as I know I'll be able to do all my driving on electric only. It will turn on in hybrid without it really being needed. I suspect it's warming up in some conditions where it expects you may do more.

I like the quiet, smooth driving. I may also be in the minority on this one, but I also do care about reducing emissions.
 
Advertisement

JKS Manufacturing
 
Advertisement
Top