Jeep won't cover engine if i do my own oil changes.

[greenerobnmu]

I have direct experience with FCA not covering engine. The engine seized and they wouldn’t cover it. They it was a 2012 Liberty I did my oil and filter every 5-6500k. It was only 14 months old. I vowed to never buy an FCA product again. Then I bought the Jeep. It’s a total waste of money but I’ll NEVER get anything done outside of a dealer at least for engine and trans work.

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[Upnarms]

I do my own oil changes. It's probably overkill but I snap a photo of the new oil, filter, the old oil in containers, the old filter , and my odometer and the receipt. This way it's dated /time stamped.

I really only started doing this when my 18 jk was consuming oil. I drained and took pics of the containers showing the level of oil out. If the dealer changed my oil, they would've just drained it and filled it, never measuring how much came out.

In fact when they started doing an oil consumption test their whole method for measuring was just checking the dipstick. They told me it is still full! But when I drain the oil it was down about a quart after just 3,500 miles.

One more thing I do is record my maintenance using the Jeep app. I am pretty sure the dealer can actually see what you have entered into this app because it also shows any service the dealer did to it when you take it in.

 

[GGolds]

My Jeep is a 2020. My first oil change I did myself a bit early as I Drove my JLUR across the country in December. My Dealer called me last week to remind me that my first service is at 8000km or 6 months, whichever comes first. I'm at 12000km now. I went into the dealer and asked what the service entails and they said it was an oil change. I mentioned I did it myself, logged it and kept the receipts for proof. The lady behind the counter proceeded to tell me that if I have any engine problems down the road that jeep will not cover any warranty work on it. It's the 3.6l. I'm not worried and thinking it may be BS but not sure. Anybody have any experience with this? I'm in Canada.

Mostly BS. The dealer can make it's own rules to some degree and make things difficult if there is a problem but technically you can do your own oil changes. HOWEVER, I wouldn't. My dealer covers all maintenance on my Wrangler as part of their own program. I will always bring it there for oil changes and to a Jeep dealer regardless to avoid any issues. That's my advice, as long as you can then do that, otherwise, if your unsure or feel uneasy about it call Jeep directly and ask them. That would be your final word I would say.

 

[Cthehentz]

Something tells me that if you are required to have the dealer perform oil changes to keep your warranty intact and avoid denial of claim then they would have to offer free oil changes for life of the warranty. Thats why it is best to keep all receipts and document millage or have an independent shop do your oil changes. My wife's Range Rover oil change are $230 but the independent shop down the street charges $90 and that is in the system, so far no issues with her warranty. As for my new jeep the dealer tossed in a 6 free oil changes so yeah lol.

 

[DanFelix]

This was discussed at length ore than a year ago it was confirmed as long as you were able to date stamp your oils changes it would not affect warranty.

What do you mean "date stamp?" I log all self-performed maintenance but I don't see how a dealership would find that persuasive evidence.

 

[lightsout]

What do you mean "date stamp?" I log all self-performed maintenance but I don't see how a dealership would find that persuasive evidence.

There was an older thread about this subject more than a year ago that prompted me to contact the dealer (I called two) both said the same a date stamp will suffice for warranty and in their explanation a dated receipt with oil and filters was fine.

 

[sam0329]

So I decided to email FCA Canada and here is their reply:

Thank you for contacting FCA Canada Customer Care – we appreciate your inquiry regarding performing the maintenance required for your 2019 Jeep Wrangler (VIN:

Your vehicle is equipped with an automatic oil change indicator system. The oil change indicator system will remind you that it is time to take your vehicle in for scheduled maintenance. While we do strongly recommend that you return to your selling retailer for all service, vehicle maintenance can be performed at any facility. FCA Canada recommends that you keep a written record along with supporting documents of all the maintenance performed on your vehicle.

FCA Canada and our dealers are concerned with your satisfaction, and we will make every effort to ensure that it is achieved. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to review this matter with you.

Joe | FCA Canada

*** Please do not use the 'Reply' function of your email. If you wish to reply by email, please compose a new email on our website or you may contact us by phone at 1-800-465-2001 with your CASE number 75113592.***

 

[Jcsieman]

My question is will FCA cover my engine since they’ve been putting 6qts in my JL!!?? Unbelievable. Just recently left the dealership for my last free oil change and happened to notice on the invoice they put 6qts. Checked the dipstick and sure enough it is high. Checked prior invoices and sure enough they have 6qts too! Anybody else have this? And before I tear the dealership a new one, is there any excuse for this that I might not be aware of other than they think my JL is a JK??

 

[Steveo]

It's probably been said already, but if a dealership staff member's lips are moving, they're either lying to you or don't know what they're talking about.

 

[DanFelix]

It's probably been said already, but if a dealership staff member's lips are moving, they're either lying to you or don't know what they're talking about.

I have to believe that the refusal to perform warranty on the basis of the vehicle owner performing oil/filter changes is a decision at the dealership level. I have never seen any purchase or lease agreement invalidating a warranty due to owner maintenance.

 

[Jcsieman]

ALARMING! I will probably post this in a different spot as well, one that will get the most attention, but I wanted to update here since I added a post already…… FCA shouldn’t cover their own oil changes under warranty based on my experience at the dealership today. I am afraid to be a Jeep customer after today. This was my full experience. Long…but if you read the whole thing I think you’ll be frightened to ever go to a dealership again….


I recently took my Jeep in for a routine/free oil change that came with my vehicle at purchase. As they say, there is no such thing as free. On my drive home, while stopped at a light, I noticed my invoice said 6quarts of oil was used in the oil change. It stood out because my JL Wrangler only takes 5quarts. However, the old Wrangler models (before 2018) took 6qts. I also knew that having a significant overage in oil can be as harmful as not having enough oil (it impairs how well the oil circulates and creates air bubbles that acts as voids in the lubrication and cause excessive wear on engine parts). I immediately turned around and went back to the dealership for an explanation. They explained sometimes they put 6qts even though they only used 5qts. Could be some spilled, could be they needed 5qts and just ‘’some’’ of another bottle but not the whole 6th bottle. I did not buy it but when I checked the dipstick the oil (sure enough) was barely above the ‘’max’’ line. High, but not alarmingly so. It sounded fishy but since I did not pay for the oil and the dipstick was not significantly overfilled, I accepted it and went home.


Looking through old invoices, however, I noticed previous oil changes showed 6qts listed (always keep your auto service documentation). The ONLY exception was the first oil change where I specifically requested only 5qts to be used (I purchased one of the first new JL Wranglers off the line and knew they took less oil than the outgoing model, so I wanted to point that out….…. felt stupid doing it but looking back I wish I did it each time). Something about seeing the other invoices sparked a thought…… at the dealership, I had checked the dipstick after I drove over a mile (leaving and returning to the service department) which would have skewed the reading. Oil should be checked on a cold engine (per most vehicle guidance and the Jeep manual – this allows the engine to fully settle in the oil pan where the dipstick reaches). Therefore, since the oil was to the max line on a warm engine, it was reasonable to assume a cold engine read would be higher – putting my Jeep above the ‘’safe zone’’. So, I let the engine set over night and check again….dipstick showed excess oil well over the line. After letting the Jeep sit for yet another day, I confirmed…..excess oil well beyond the max line.


So, today, I schedule an appointment to have the oil drained and talk to a manager. This is actually where my story begins. Luckily I was smart enough to record myself checking the oil before I left (had not driven all day and got the dipstick level overage on video). I was mortified by my experience…. shaky mad….not angry for myself but was more angry that places like this exist and other types of people (the ‘’flight’ instinct peeps) probably fall victim all the time. I wisely recorded most of my time there and captured things I know FCA/the dealership owner would be mortified to see on video.


like when I first brought it to their attention after the oil change, they had a quick answer for every concern. I questioned just enough to poke a hole in one statement and they pulled another one out of the air as quickly as they could…… around and around we went for the next 30 mins, me in the back of the service area surrounded by a manager and several mechanics telling me I was wrong/crazy at each turn.


First they showed me the oil level was just at the max line on the dipstick, which (as they argued) proves there is only 5qts. They confidently argued everything was fine and I was paranoid. I pointed out I just drove 20 mins to the dealership at an average of 55 mph, which meant there was oil still coating various engine parts. I further explained as that oil drains it will increase the oil level reading, which would put the oil level over the safe line. They said I was wrong and explained that the hotter the engine the faster the oil drains back down to the oil pan, so therewas no more oil on the engine by the time they checked it. They, crazily argued (on video too) the longer an engine sits the lower the dipstick level reading would be, again assuring me everything was fine. I clarified, ‘’you’re saying if we check the oil right now and then check it tomorrow morning (without running the Jeep) that the oil level will show higher on the dipstick, not lower!??”. They, in unison standing around me, said ‘’Yes!”. I responded by showing them the video I had just taken before driving over. The video clearly showed what the oil level was on the cold engine read and proved it was much higher on the dipstick than the read they were getting after I drove over (100% undeniable contradiction to what they just explained). Then (without really admitting they were wrong) tried to convince me I was reading the dipstick incorrectly anyway. I proved I wasn’t and added the obvious question as to why, if there is only 5qts of oil in my engine, does the invoice say 6 qts was used(?). The manager sincerely thought it was a good response to explain, ‘’the people in the front doing the paper work don’t always know what they are doing. So, to make their jobs easier, they give them a generic code to use for oil changes…some trucks take 5, some take 6, but it is generic and does not really capture what is done in the back. He explained that the back does the oil change first and then the people upfront do the invoice after the fact (I assume to make me feel better that it was a clerical mistake and not something the mechanics actually relied on) and then assured me 5qts was put into my engine and the paper work is wrong. This was the only time I got personal in any of my responses. At first, I said I find it extremely interesting (as a CPA/Auditor) that, “you have a business process that allows your employees to invoice customers without directly correlating those charges to the actual work performed on a vehicle!”. I added (in a ‘’holy crap’’ tone), ‘’ so you’re saying the 6qts on my invoice does not match the work performed on my vehicle and you, as the service department manager, oversee a department that inaccurately invoices its customers for items they did not use or need. Are you saying the invoice given to me does not reflect the work performed…and not only are you aware of it but you’re okay with it!???” Then, I directly asked, ‘’do you realize what you are saying….are you sure you’d rather admit that’s your process instead of admitting you put the wrong oil in my engine? Which one is worse?”. After all this, the manager conceded it is ‘’possible’’ my engine has 6qts but explained, “having too much oil does not hurt the vehicle”. I offered to consult Google to verify his statement and gave him a spoiler alert that I just read A, B, C and websites X, Y, Z that say he is either lying or incompetent. He eventually agreed to drain the oil and put just 5qts in. When it was all done, he was seemingly avoiding me. I casually asked (multiple times) if I ‘’should sign something before leaving?” and he quickly said no. I then questioned more directly, ‘’every time I have work done here, I have to sign for the work performed,,” His response was, ‘’well, I’m paying for this so you don’t need the invoice.’’. I said back, ‘’ I haven’t paid for any of my oil changes here….I still get a zeroed out invoice every time. Why is this different?’’ But he ignored the comment and walked off. I then went to the customer service rep and told him, ‘’I am not going to put you in the middle of this, and probably don’t have to say too much here, but I think it is pretty obvious why I am not being asked to sign anything. I think we both know why he wants me to leave without this ever being documented. Whether it is better coming from you or coming from me, I’ll let you decide… but he should know I am not leaving here without having the work performed today documented.” The rep disappeared for a bit and came back with the manager. I explained that the well known advise is to always keep paper work for all vehicle maintenance. I have invoices showing 6qts was put in and I want invoices to show that was corrected and the proper amount was added.’’. The manager give me the most generic invoice ever. I asked him to update the wording to truly capture the work/problem. He brought back another half done invoice so I used a pen to make changes and asked him to initial next to the changes.


More concerning than the oil issue was what was discussed while the mechanics were changing the oil. By then, I had brought up the other issues I have with my vehicle that are problems. I explained I’ve attempted to have them fixed several times and, coupled with the apparent oil problem for the last year and a half, I no longer want my vehicle based and have filed a ‘’buy back’’ complaint with corporate. One of the biggest issues is my infotainment unit has had problems since I bought the Jeep, literally since day one. I explained, and showed, that I have the problems well documented on video; yet, they (the dealership) is yet to even acknowledge the problem. Instead, they keep saying ‘’could not recreate problem’’ every time I take it in for service (costing me a day off of work and a rental car ($50 plus) most times since they do not provide loaners and they only have one or two techs who can work on the head unit….and those employees only work M-F). The manager spent the whole time I was waiting trying to convince me I am wrong to think I have any recourse or that his service department has not done a good job testing my vehicle. He told me things about the lemon law and my rights as a customer that I know are 100% false. Even after I explained I was a CPA and concentrated my studies in grad school on business law, he talked at me and down to me like I was wrong about everything. He talked to me as if it was almost my fault or something. However, through his rants, almost as if to justify the lack of progress/service on fixing my infotainment problem, he foolishly admitted the explanation for why my problem has not been resolved (again, all on video). He explained, ‘’the new Wranglers have had problems with the head units since they came out. Everybody knows about it. FCA offered a program update, has lots of them, but the didn’t fix the problem [made it worse if anything]. The problem is those updates take so long to update and there are different updates for different vehicles and units, and we don’t always know which one yours needs. We have 32 different sticks for the different updates…and they each take an hour to download and an hour to work, etc. and it is very time consuming. Plus, we can have everybody have 32 sticks or be trained to do that, so we decided to just have 1 or 2, and those two aren’t here on weekends…’’. He basically admitted each time I took off work and went in, they were doing a quick guess and then moving on…. KNOWING my complaint is common and viable. He indirectly admitted they are understaffed, undertrained, and are working around an already inefficient process. Instead of truly digging to identify and resolve the problem, the spent an unrealistic amount of time “working” on it and simply marked it as ‘’could not reproduce problem’’ and moved on. After the above discussion, and after the manger reviewed my maintenance history (right in front of me) he then offered to replace my whole radio and offer me a vehicle to drive without a charge while the work was done. I told him, based on concerns for the engine due to the mistakes with the oil levels, I want to pursue a buy back instead.


He never once said sorry or showed any empathy on any level……in fact he walked off a few times and left me randomly standing there by myself in the middle of the garage (I would think is a liability….and again, on video). But perhaps the worst part, above all else that happened, is this: when he did randomly walk off a few times, I stayed in the back. One time a one of the mechanics who was overhearing a lot of our discussion (foolishly) confessed to SO much. He was nice enough, and dumb enough, to admit to me (all on video) they were never told the new Jeep Wranglers took different oil amounts than the previous models. They just changed the oil like they always had. He said they had been doing the same oil change on the new Wranglers for months and months before an email was ever sent out informing the mechanics they should have 5 qts instead of 6qts. This implies a) they do not train mechanics on new models, b) the mechanics do not reference specific vehicle information when doing oil changes…instead they appear to work from habit/memory, and c) you are truly the only quality review over what your mechanic is doing to your expensive vehicle. That mechanic went on to explain that they had done the oil one way for so long on the Wranglers, nobody really thought about whether the new ones would be different. Again, all on video. One mechanic sounded like he was hearing it for the first time (that the new Jeeps use less oil). It was surreal to hear such obvious disconnect and lack of quality control inside a dealership service department considering the new Wranglers are entering their third year of production.


Moral of the story…never trust a dealership over your gut. Always keep your documentation. Make sure you report all problems and have it documented each time you go in on a new vehicle, and you can never be too paranoid. You hear about these experiences and places, but you never think it is the one you take your vehicle to. And sadly….. maybe Jeep isn’t the best place to invest $40-50k afterall. I never had this problem with my other vehicles. I bet there could be a class action lawsuit on these oil changes and lack of training. If you’re a lawyer, contact me!

 

[blnewt]

ALARMING! I will probably post this in a different spot as well, one that will get the most attention, but I wanted to update here since I added a post already…… FCA shouldn’t cover their own oil changes under warranty based on my experience at the dealership today. I am afraid to be a Jeep customer after today. This was my full experience. Long…but if you read the whole thing I think you’ll be frightened to ever go to a dealership again….


I recently took my Jeep in for a routine/free oil change that came with my vehicle at purchase. As they say, there is no such thing as free. On my drive home, while stopped at a light, I noticed my invoice said 6quarts of oil was used in the oil change. It stood out because my JL Wrangler only takes 5quarts. However, the old Wrangler models (before 2018) took 6qts. I also knew that having a significant overage in oil can be as harmful as not having enough oil (it impairs how well the oil circulates and creates air bubbles that acts as voids in the lubrication and cause excessive wear on engine parts). I immediately turned around and went back to the dealership for an explanation. They explained sometimes they put 6qts even though they only used 5qts. Could be some spilled, could be they needed 5qts and just ‘’some’’ of another bottle but not the whole 6th bottle. I did not buy it but when I checked the dipstick the oil (sure enough) was barely above the ‘’max’’ line. High, but not alarmingly so. It sounded fishy but since I did not pay for the oil and the dipstick was not significantly overfilled, I accepted it and went home.


Looking through old invoices, however, I noticed previous oil changes showed 6qts listed (always keep your auto service documentation). The ONLY exception was the first oil change where I specifically requested only 5qts to be used (I purchased one of the first new JL Wranglers off the line and knew they took less oil than the outgoing model, so I wanted to point that out….…. felt stupid doing it but looking back I wish I did it each time). Something about seeing the other invoices sparked a thought…… at the dealership, I had checked the dipstick after I drove over a mile (leaving and returning to the service department) which would have skewed the reading. Oil should be checked on a cold engine (per most vehicle guidance and the Jeep manual – this allows the engine to fully settle in the oil pan where the dipstick reaches). Therefore, since the oil was to the max line on a warm engine, it was reasonable to assume a cold engine read would be higher – putting my Jeep above the ‘’safe zone’’. So, I let the engine set over night and check again….dipstick showed excess oil well over the line. After letting the Jeep sit for yet another day, I confirmed…..excess oil well beyond the max line.


So, today, I schedule an appointment to have the oil drained and talk to a manager. This is actually where my story begins. Luckily I was smart enough to record myself checking the oil before I left (had not driven all day and got the dipstick level overage on video). I was mortified by my experience…. shaky mad….not angry for myself but was more angry that places like this exist and other types of people (the ‘’flight’ instinct peeps) probably fall victim all the time. I wisely recorded most of my time there and captured things I know FCA/the dealership owner would be mortified to see on video.


like when I first brought it to their attention after the oil change, they had a quick answer for every concern. I questioned just enough to poke a hole in one statement and they pulled another one out of the air as quickly as they could…… around and around we went for the next 30 mins, me in the back of the service area surrounded by a manager and several mechanics telling me I was wrong/crazy at each turn.


First they showed me the oil level was just at the max line on the dipstick, which (as they argued) proves there is only 5qts. They confidently argued everything was fine and I was paranoid. I pointed out I just drove 20 mins to the dealership at an average of 55 mph, which meant there was oil still coating various engine parts. I further explained as that oil drains it will increase the oil level reading, which would put the oil level over the safe line. They said I was wrong and explained that the hotter the engine the faster the oil drains back down to the oil pan, so therewas no more oil on the engine by the time they checked it. They, crazily argued (on video too) the longer an engine sits the lower the dipstick level reading would be, again assuring me everything was fine. I clarified, ‘’you’re saying if we check the oil right now and then check it tomorrow morning (without running the Jeep) that the oil level will show higher on the dipstick, not lower!??”. They, in unison standing around me, said ‘’Yes!”. I responded by showing them the video I had just taken before driving over. The video clearly showed what the oil level was on the cold engine read and proved it was much higher on the dipstick than the read they were getting after I drove over (100% undeniable contradiction to what they just explained). Then (without really admitting they were wrong) tried to convince me I was reading the dipstick incorrectly anyway. I proved I wasn’t and added the obvious question as to why, if there is only 5qts of oil in my engine, does the invoice say 6 qts was used(?). The manager sincerely thought it was a good response to explain, ‘’the people in the front doing the paper work don’t always know what they are doing. So, to make their jobs easier, they give them a generic code to use for oil changes…some trucks take 5, some take 6, but it is generic and does not really capture what is done in the back. He explained that the back does the oil change first and then the people upfront do the invoice after the fact (I assume to make me feel better that it was a clerical mistake and not something the mechanics actually relied on) and then assured me 5qts was put into my engine and the paper work is wrong. This was the only time I got personal in any of my responses. At first, I said I find it extremely interesting (as a CPA/Auditor) that, “you have a business process that allows your employees to invoice customers without directly correlating those charges to the actual work performed on a vehicle!”. I added (in a ‘’holy crap’’ tone), ‘’ so you’re saying the 6qts on my invoice does not match the work performed on my vehicle and you, as the service department manager, oversee a department that inaccurately invoices its customers for items they did not use or need. Are you saying the invoice given to me does not reflect the work performed…and not only are you aware of it but you’re okay with it!???” Then, I directly asked, ‘’do you realize what you are saying….are you sure you’d rather admit that’s your process instead of admitting you put the wrong oil in my engine? Which one is worse?”. After all this, the manager conceded it is ‘’possible’’ my engine has 6qts but explained, “having too much oil does not hurt the vehicle”. I offered to consult Google to verify his statement and gave him a spoiler alert that I just read A, B, C and websites X, Y, Z that say he is either lying or incompetent. He eventually agreed to drain the oil and put just 5qts in. When it was all done, he was seemingly avoiding me. I casually asked (multiple times) if I ‘’should sign something before leaving?” and he quickly said no. I then questioned more directly, ‘’every time I have work done here, I have to sign for the work performed,,” His response was, ‘’well, I’m paying for this so you don’t need the invoice.’’. I said back, ‘’ I haven’t paid for any of my oil changes here….I still get a zeroed out invoice every time. Why is this different?’’ But he ignored the comment and walked off. I then went to the customer service rep and told him, ‘’I am not going to put you in the middle of this, and probably don’t have to say too much here, but I think it is pretty obvious why I am not being asked to sign anything. I think we both know why he wants me to leave without this ever being documented. Whether it is better coming from you or coming from me, I’ll let you decide… but he should know I am not leaving here without having the work performed today documented.” The rep disappeared for a bit and came back with the manager. I explained that the well known advise is to always keep paper work for all vehicle maintenance. I have invoices showing 6qts was put in and I want invoices to show that was corrected and the proper amount was added.’’. The manager give me the most generic invoice ever. I asked him to update the wording to truly capture the work/problem. He brought back another half done invoice so I used a pen to make changes and asked him to initial next to the changes.


More concerning than the oil issue was what was discussed while the mechanics were changing the oil. By then, I had brought up the other issues I have with my vehicle that are problems. I explained I’ve attempted to have them fixed several times and, coupled with the apparent oil problem for the last year and a half, I no longer want my vehicle based and have filed a ‘’buy back’’ complaint with corporate. One of the biggest issues is my infotainment unit has had problems since I bought the Jeep, literally since day one. I explained, and showed, that I have the problems well documented on video; yet, they (the dealership) is yet to even acknowledge the problem. Instead, they keep saying ‘’could not recreate problem’’ every time I take it in for service (costing me a day off of work and a rental car ($50 plus) most times since they do not provide loaners and they only have one or two techs who can work on the head unit….and those employees only work M-F). The manager spent the whole time I was waiting trying to convince me I am wrong to think I have any recourse or that his service department has not done a good job testing my vehicle. He told me things about the lemon law and my rights as a customer that I know are 100% false. Even after I explained I was a CPA and concentrated my studies in grad school on business law, he talked at me and down to me like I was wrong about everything. He talked to me as if it was almost my fault or something. However, through his rants, almost as if to justify the lack of progress/service on fixing my infotainment problem, he foolishly admitted the explanation for why my problem has not been resolved (again, all on video). He explained, ‘’the new Wranglers have had problems with the head units since they came out. Everybody knows about it. FCA offered a program update, has lots of them, but the didn’t fix the problem [made it worse if anything]. The problem is those updates take so long to update and there are different updates for different vehicles and units, and we don’t always know which one yours needs. We have 32 different sticks for the different updates…and they each take an hour to download and an hour to work, etc. and it is very time consuming. Plus, we can have everybody have 32 sticks or be trained to do that, so we decided to just have 1 or 2, and those two aren’t here on weekends…’’. He basically admitted each time I took off work and went in, they were doing a quick guess and then moving on…. KNOWING my complaint is common and viable. He indirectly admitted they are understaffed, undertrained, and are working around an already inefficient process. Instead of truly digging to identify and resolve the problem, the spent an unrealistic amount of time “working” on it and simply marked it as ‘’could not reproduce problem’’ and moved on. After the above discussion, and after the manger reviewed my maintenance history (right in front of me) he then offered to replace my whole radio and offer me a vehicle to drive without a charge while the work was done. I told him, based on concerns for the engine due to the mistakes with the oil levels, I want to pursue a buy back instead.


He never once said sorry or showed any empathy on any level……in fact he walked off a few times and left me randomly standing there by myself in the middle of the garage (I would think is a liability….and again, on video). But perhaps the worst part, above all else that happened, is this: when he did randomly walk off a few times, I stayed in the back. One time a one of the mechanics who was overhearing a lot of our discussion (foolishly) confessed to SO much. He was nice enough, and dumb enough, to admit to me (all on video) they were never told the new Jeep Wranglers took different oil amounts than the previous models. They just changed the oil like they always had. He said they had been doing the same oil change on the new Wranglers for months and months before an email was ever sent out informing the mechanics they should have 5 qts instead of 6qts. This implies a) they do not train mechanics on new models, b) the mechanics do not reference specific vehicle information when doing oil changes…instead they appear to work from habit/memory, and c) you are truly the only quality review over what your mechanic is doing to your expensive vehicle. That mechanic went on to explain that they had done the oil one way for so long on the Wranglers, nobody really thought about whether the new ones would be different. Again, all on video. One mechanic sounded like he was hearing it for the first time (that the new Jeeps use less oil). It was surreal to hear such obvious disconnect and lack of quality control inside a dealership service department considering the new Wranglers are entering their third year of production.


Moral of the story…never trust a dealership over your gut. Always keep your documentation. Make sure you report all problems and have it documented each time you go in on a new vehicle, and you can never be too paranoid. You hear about these experiences and places, but you never think it is the one you take your vehicle to. And sadly….. maybe Jeep isn’t the best place to invest $40-50k afterall. I never had this problem with my other vehicles. I bet there could be a class action lawsuit on these oil changes and lack of training. If you’re a lawyer, contact me!

Makes me even happier that I never let anyone else change my oil

 

[JeepCares]

ALARMING! I will probably post this in a different spot as well, one that will get the most attention, but I wanted to update here since I added a post already…… FCA shouldn’t cover their own oil changes under warranty based on my experience at the dealership today. I am afraid to be a Jeep customer after today. This was my full experience. Long…but if you read the whole thing I think you’ll be frightened to ever go to a dealership again….


I recently took my Jeep in for a routine/free oil change that came with my vehicle at purchase. As they say, there is no such thing as free. On my drive home, while stopped at a light, I noticed my invoice said 6quarts of oil was used in the oil change. It stood out because my JL Wrangler only takes 5quarts. However, the old Wrangler models (before 2018) took 6qts. I also knew that having a significant overage in oil can be as harmful as not having enough oil (it impairs how well the oil circulates and creates air bubbles that acts as voids in the lubrication and cause excessive wear on engine parts). I immediately turned around and went back to the dealership for an explanation. They explained sometimes they put 6qts even though they only used 5qts. Could be some spilled, could be they needed 5qts and just ‘’some’’ of another bottle but not the whole 6th bottle. I did not buy it but when I checked the dipstick the oil (sure enough) was barely above the ‘’max’’ line. High, but not alarmingly so. It sounded fishy but since I did not pay for the oil and the dipstick was not significantly overfilled, I accepted it and went home.


Looking through old invoices, however, I noticed previous oil changes showed 6qts listed (always keep your auto service documentation). The ONLY exception was the first oil change where I specifically requested only 5qts to be used (I purchased one of the first new JL Wranglers off the line and knew they took less oil than the outgoing model, so I wanted to point that out….…. felt stupid doing it but looking back I wish I did it each time). Something about seeing the other invoices sparked a thought…… at the dealership, I had checked the dipstick after I drove over a mile (leaving and returning to the service department) which would have skewed the reading. Oil should be checked on a cold engine (per most vehicle guidance and the Jeep manual – this allows the engine to fully settle in the oil pan where the dipstick reaches). Therefore, since the oil was to the max line on a warm engine, it was reasonable to assume a cold engine read would be higher – putting my Jeep above the ‘’safe zone’’. So, I let the engine set over night and check again….dipstick showed excess oil well over the line. After letting the Jeep sit for yet another day, I confirmed…..excess oil well beyond the max line.


So, today, I schedule an appointment to have the oil drained and talk to a manager. This is actually where my story begins. Luckily I was smart enough to record myself checking the oil before I left (had not driven all day and got the dipstick level overage on video). I was mortified by my experience…. shaky mad….not angry for myself but was more angry that places like this exist and other types of people (the ‘’flight’ instinct peeps) probably fall victim all the time. I wisely recorded most of my time there and captured things I know FCA/the dealership owner would be mortified to see on video.


like when I first brought it to their attention after the oil change, they had a quick answer for every concern. I questioned just enough to poke a hole in one statement and they pulled another one out of the air as quickly as they could…… around and around we went for the next 30 mins, me in the back of the service area surrounded by a manager and several mechanics telling me I was wrong/crazy at each turn.


First they showed me the oil level was just at the max line on the dipstick, which (as they argued) proves there is only 5qts. They confidently argued everything was fine and I was paranoid. I pointed out I just drove 20 mins to the dealership at an average of 55 mph, which meant there was oil still coating various engine parts. I further explained as that oil drains it will increase the oil level reading, which would put the oil level over the safe line. They said I was wrong and explained that the hotter the engine the faster the oil drains back down to the oil pan, so therewas no more oil on the engine by the time they checked it. They, crazily argued (on video too) the longer an engine sits the lower the dipstick level reading would be, again assuring me everything was fine. I clarified, ‘’you’re saying if we check the oil right now and then check it tomorrow morning (without running the Jeep) that the oil level will show higher on the dipstick, not lower!??”. They, in unison standing around me, said ‘’Yes!”. I responded by showing them the video I had just taken before driving over. The video clearly showed what the oil level was on the cold engine read and proved it was much higher on the dipstick than the read they were getting after I drove over (100% undeniable contradiction to what they just explained). Then (without really admitting they were wrong) tried to convince me I was reading the dipstick incorrectly anyway. I proved I wasn’t and added the obvious question as to why, if there is only 5qts of oil in my engine, does the invoice say 6 qts was used(?). The manager sincerely thought it was a good response to explain, ‘’the people in the front doing the paper work don’t always know what they are doing. So, to make their jobs easier, they give them a generic code to use for oil changes…some trucks take 5, some take 6, but it is generic and does not really capture what is done in the back. He explained that the back does the oil change first and then the people upfront do the invoice after the fact (I assume to make me feel better that it was a clerical mistake and not something the mechanics actually relied on) and then assured me 5qts was put into my engine and the paper work is wrong. This was the only time I got personal in any of my responses. At first, I said I find it extremely interesting (as a CPA/Auditor) that, “you have a business process that allows your employees to invoice customers without directly correlating those charges to the actual work performed on a vehicle!”. I added (in a ‘’holy crap’’ tone), ‘’ so you’re saying the 6qts on my invoice does not match the work performed on my vehicle and you, as the service department manager, oversee a department that inaccurately invoices its customers for items they did not use or need. Are you saying the invoice given to me does not reflect the work performed…and not only are you aware of it but you’re okay with it!???” Then, I directly asked, ‘’do you realize what you are saying….are you sure you’d rather admit that’s your process instead of admitting you put the wrong oil in my engine? Which one is worse?”. After all this, the manager conceded it is ‘’possible’’ my engine has 6qts but explained, “having too much oil does not hurt the vehicle”. I offered to consult Google to verify his statement and gave him a spoiler alert that I just read A, B, C and websites X, Y, Z that say he is either lying or incompetent. He eventually agreed to drain the oil and put just 5qts in. When it was all done, he was seemingly avoiding me. I casually asked (multiple times) if I ‘’should sign something before leaving?” and he quickly said no. I then questioned more directly, ‘’every time I have work done here, I have to sign for the work performed,,” His response was, ‘’well, I’m paying for this so you don’t need the invoice.’’. I said back, ‘’ I haven’t paid for any of my oil changes here….I still get a zeroed out invoice every time. Why is this different?’’ But he ignored the comment and walked off. I then went to the customer service rep and told him, ‘’I am not going to put you in the middle of this, and probably don’t have to say too much here, but I think it is pretty obvious why I am not being asked to sign anything. I think we both know why he wants me to leave without this ever being documented. Whether it is better coming from you or coming from me, I’ll let you decide… but he should know I am not leaving here without having the work performed today documented.” The rep disappeared for a bit and came back with the manager. I explained that the well known advise is to always keep paper work for all vehicle maintenance. I have invoices showing 6qts was put in and I want invoices to show that was corrected and the proper amount was added.’’. The manager give me the most generic invoice ever. I asked him to update the wording to truly capture the work/problem. He brought back another half done invoice so I used a pen to make changes and asked him to initial next to the changes.


More concerning than the oil issue was what was discussed while the mechanics were changing the oil. By then, I had brought up the other issues I have with my vehicle that are problems. I explained I’ve attempted to have them fixed several times and, coupled with the apparent oil problem for the last year and a half, I no longer want my vehicle based and have filed a ‘’buy back’’ complaint with corporate. One of the biggest issues is my infotainment unit has had problems since I bought the Jeep, literally since day one. I explained, and showed, that I have the problems well documented on video; yet, they (the dealership) is yet to even acknowledge the problem. Instead, they keep saying ‘’could not recreate problem’’ every time I take it in for service (costing me a day off of work and a rental car ($50 plus) most times since they do not provide loaners and they only have one or two techs who can work on the head unit….and those employees only work M-F). The manager spent the whole time I was waiting trying to convince me I am wrong to think I have any recourse or that his service department has not done a good job testing my vehicle. He told me things about the lemon law and my rights as a customer that I know are 100% false. Even after I explained I was a CPA and concentrated my studies in grad school on business law, he talked at me and down to me like I was wrong about everything. He talked to me as if it was almost my fault or something. However, through his rants, almost as if to justify the lack of progress/service on fixing my infotainment problem, he foolishly admitted the explanation for why my problem has not been resolved (again, all on video). He explained, ‘’the new Wranglers have had problems with the head units since they came out. Everybody knows about it. FCA offered a program update, has lots of them, but the didn’t fix the problem [made it worse if anything]. The problem is those updates take so long to update and there are different updates for different vehicles and units, and we don’t always know which one yours needs. We have 32 different sticks for the different updates…and they each take an hour to download and an hour to work, etc. and it is very time consuming. Plus, we can have everybody have 32 sticks or be trained to do that, so we decided to just have 1 or 2, and those two aren’t here on weekends…’’. He basically admitted each time I took off work and went in, they were doing a quick guess and then moving on…. KNOWING my complaint is common and viable. He indirectly admitted they are understaffed, undertrained, and are working around an already inefficient process. Instead of truly digging to identify and resolve the problem, the spent an unrealistic amount of time “working” on it and simply marked it as ‘’could not reproduce problem’’ and moved on. After the above discussion, and after the manger reviewed my maintenance history (right in front of me) he then offered to replace my whole radio and offer me a vehicle to drive without a charge while the work was done. I told him, based on concerns for the engine due to the mistakes with the oil levels, I want to pursue a buy back instead.


He never once said sorry or showed any empathy on any level……in fact he walked off a few times and left me randomly standing there by myself in the middle of the garage (I would think is a liability….and again, on video). But perhaps the worst part, above all else that happened, is this: when he did randomly walk off a few times, I stayed in the back. One time a one of the mechanics who was overhearing a lot of our discussion (foolishly) confessed to SO much. He was nice enough, and dumb enough, to admit to me (all on video) they were never told the new Jeep Wranglers took different oil amounts than the previous models. They just changed the oil like they always had. He said they had been doing the same oil change on the new Wranglers for months and months before an email was ever sent out informing the mechanics they should have 5 qts instead of 6qts. This implies a) they do not train mechanics on new models, b) the mechanics do not reference specific vehicle information when doing oil changes…instead they appear to work from habit/memory, and c) you are truly the only quality review over what your mechanic is doing to your expensive vehicle. That mechanic went on to explain that they had done the oil one way for so long on the Wranglers, nobody really thought about whether the new ones would be different. Again, all on video. One mechanic sounded like he was hearing it for the first time (that the new Jeeps use less oil). It was surreal to hear such obvious disconnect and lack of quality control inside a dealership service department considering the new Wranglers are entering their third year of production.


Moral of the story…never trust a dealership over your gut. Always keep your documentation. Make sure you report all problems and have it documented each time you go in on a new vehicle, and you can never be too paranoid. You hear about these experiences and places, but you never think it is the one you take your vehicle to. And sadly….. maybe Jeep isn’t the best place to invest $40-50k afterall. I never had this problem with my other vehicles. I bet there could be a class action lawsuit on these oil changes and lack of training. If you’re a lawyer, contact me!

Hello, Jcsieman. I have responded to your private message. Please follow up with me there.

Kate
JeepCares

 

[CaddyshackGopher]

Dear JeepCares,

I would like FCA to provide an official response specific to the damage that overfilling this engine may cause. Many customers will want this information so that they can be safeguarded against future engine failure expense that over filling oil causes. Thank you, we look forward to your response & appreciate the support you provide your customers.

Please don’t ask me to private message you, I have already done this with my specific experience / details / dates / Dealer name / VIN# etc. but I have not received a response from you.

 

[Jcsieman]

Dear JeepCares,

I would like FCA to provide an official response specific to the damage that overfilling this engine may cause. Many customers will want this information so that they can be safeguarded against future engine failure expense that over filling oil causes. Thank you, we look forward to your response & appreciate the support you provide your customers.

Please don’t ask me to private message you, I have already done this with my specific experience / details / dates / Dealer name / VIN# etc. but I have not received a response from you.

And to clarify, over filling a whole quart NO doubt causes problems. But, it could be worse if they did not use the right type as well. I have no proof mine did or didn’t since I didn’t test the oil inside. But, it is reasonable to assume if the untrained mechanics assumed the oil quantity was the same as the JK they could have also assumed the oil type was the same and not paid attention.
I tried to post my video of the Jeep mechanic admitting he didn’t realize there was a difference but this forum does not take the file type.

I have offered Jeep options to address my concern, and said I would sign a NDA if needed. If they don’t take me/this issue serious, I will no doubt take legal action. If you have had similar experiences, I’d be happy to discuss the possibility of a class action lawsuit with my attorney. Please send me your information if you would like. Completely oversight in training on Jeep’s part and an inexcusable situation for a new customer to be in just haven spent $50,000 on a new vehicle. Complete shame. But what determines if I’m going to forgive a mistake vs never be a Jeep customer again is how they handle this. Do the right thing Jeep!

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