Jeep vs Defender

[Namib]

I was able to see the test mule up close in Korea today. I was not able to get a good look at the front, but was able to peek under it in the rear. The A-frames looks pretty solid, but very low and short. It is no higher than a standard SUV like a Ford Explorer. It did have 20" wheels with 255/60/20 street tires. The approach and depart angles looks good, but in the rear the exhaust is pretty exposed. This is probably no different than for a Jeep, except that it is a very custom molded design that will be expensive to replace.

This brings me to probably the biggest issue I see. With pretty low ground clearance it will likely need some lift and bigger tires for most enthusiasts. The Independent suspension and unibody type design makes modification very expensive and difficult. I don't think you will even be able to get 33" tires on it as is. I am sure it will be quite capable out of the box, but it leaves no room to make it your own... Forget a lift, bigger tires, mounting a hi-lift, bumpers, adding a winch will likely be challenging etc, I did not see a spare, so it is not clear it will even get a full size spare (can somebody confirm this?)

I think they are shooting at the wrong target...

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[Namib]

I don't disagree- it will likely get a little spendy! Most estimates guess between high $40s to mid $70s! The good news is that the 18" rims and coil springs etc... will be the lower end of that spectrum. It's the air ride suspension and 22s and all the comfort features inside (most of which I don't care for) that will push it into the $70s.

I've owned several Jeeps, in particular Wrangler- LOVE THEM! But to be honest, in the last few years I've really noticed how underpowered they are- you put mud tires, bumpers, winch, load up the dogs and some camping gear and you are struggling up the inclines here in the Rockies very quickly. I've ridden in some Land Cruisers and Range Rovers and they ride SO MUCH BETTER! They are just a lot more drivable in my opinion. I'll still run Hells Revenge type trails and below but I don't do the really crazy stuff anymore.

Definitely not saying that when I go to purchase it will be an easy decision. Just saying that I see Land Rover elevating it's game. I've never owned one- I've always gone with Jeep, but what they are doing with the Defender is very interesting.

Jeep can change my mind very quickly-- Put a HEMI in the Wrangler!!!

I see 2 issues here:
1. I do not think the Defender will get the same performance engines that is in the Range Rovers
2. You will not be able to put steel bumpers, mud tires bigger than 32" etc. that eat the Jeeps performance on the Defender anyway...

 

[Rudolph Hart]

I was able to see the test mule up close in Korea today. I was not able to get a good look at the front, but was able to peek under it in the rear. The A-frames looks pretty solid, but very low and short. It is no higher than a standard SUV like a Ford Explorer. It did have 20" wheels with 255/60/20 street tires. The approach and depart angles looks good, but in the rear the exhaust is pretty exposed. This is probably no different than for a Jeep, except that it is a very custom molded design that will be expensive to replace.

This brings me to probably the biggest issue I see. With pretty low ground clearance it will likely need some lift and bigger tires for most enthusiasts. The Independent suspension and unibody type design makes modification very expensive and difficult. I don't think you will even be able to get 33" tires on it as is. I am sure it will be quite capable out of the box, but it leaves no room to make it your own... Forget a lift, bigger tires, mounting a hi-lift, bumpers, adding a winch will likely be challenging etc, I did not see a spare, so it is not clear it will even get a full size spare (can somebody confirm this?)

I think they are shooting at the wrong target...

Land Rover’s traditional market in the U.K. has moved on. Farmers buy Japanese pick ups because they’re cheap, handle abuse and don’t have reliability problems. Anybody wanting a ‘utility’ vehicle does the same. The ‘off road’ market in the U.K. has always been small but is getting smaller as local councils legislate to close down off road routes due to mindless abuse buy idiots. The armed forces want reliability, they’re not going to touch a Land Rover.

Land Rover knows all this. The market for the new Defender is urban hipsters and soccer mums, that’s their target. It doesn’t need to be capable like series Land Rovers/Defenders of the past,

 

[Namib]

Land Rover’s traditional market in the U.K. has moved on. Farmers buy Japanese pick ups because they’re cheap, handle abuse and don’t have reliability problems. Anybody wanting a ‘utility’ vehicle does the same. The ‘off road’ market in the U.K. has always been small but is getting smaller as local councils legislate to close down off road routes due to mindless abuse buy idiots. The armed forces want reliability, they’re not going to touch a Land Rover.

Land Rover knows all this. The market for the new Defender is urban hipsters and soccer mums, that’s their target. It doesn’t need to be capable like series Land Rovers/Defenders of the past,

I agree to some extend. However, they already Range Rovers, Range Rover Sport, Range Rover Velar, Discovery, Discovery Sport, Evoque etc. Not to mention all the other brands in this space. I grew up in Africa and Land Rovers were very popular there. The same in Australia, and they could have had some opportunity in the US. Jeep has done very well with Wranglers by design for the enthusiasts and still picking up some soccer mom business. With the new Defender I think they are just serving the same customer they already have with another option. I am very loyal to the Land Rover brand, but if I buy one today, it will be one of the existing vehicles - not the Defender.

 

[Hayseed_JLUR]

The same brush you are using to paint the LR products as unreliable, etc. can be used to do the same with Jeeps. My jeeps have had more warranty work done than my Rovers. Not saying either is perfect but their reputation is not the reality necessarily.

With that said, I am holding judgement on the Defender until I actually see the vehicle. We cannot judge offroad capability based on a test mule that will have street tires and the adjustable suspension all the way down. Johnson lifts will have a lift for it immediately but you do not need large tires for this one - it is not designed to be a Moab rock crawler. They are going for the luxury market which will happen to include some soccer moms.

Is LR going away from their traditional body designs - yes - unfortunately because I liked the boxy design. But do not underestimate the advancements in technology and the offroad capability that is still there.

I have the Rover for road trips where comfort and saftey are important. This is unstoppable in all weathers - especially with the Nokian tires on it. I did not get it to pound offroad - that is what the JK and JL are for - they are not apples to apples comparable and they should not be.

 

[JeepColorado]

Exactly. I think he's living in a pipe dream. This thing will be nothing more than an overpriced grocery getter.

Overpriced Grocery Go-Getter? ...looks like something else to me.

https://expeditionportal.com/the-best-defender-tease-video-yet/

 

[wrangster]

I was told by a good friend who owns an auto shop here in the metroplex to stay away from land rovers. So I did now I own my first wrangler!

 

[RubenZ]

Overpriced Grocery Go-Getter? ...looks like something else to me.

https://expeditionportal.com/the-best-defender-tease-video-yet/

Thats a cute edited promotional video. Heck they make those with Subarus, Explorers, Xterra's, and and any other grocery getter on the market.

KIA:

 

[M0ondogy]

I was told by a good friend who owns an auto shop here in the metroplex to stay away from land rovers. So I did now I own my first wrangler!

Dunno how to break it to yuh bud, but JLR and FCA regularly bring up the bottom of the pack in terms of reliability.

If reliability was a factor in our minds, we would all be in a TDR by Toyota.

 

[Luvmejeeps]

Overpriced Grocery Go-Getter? ...looks like something else to me.

https://expeditionportal.com/the-best-defender-tease-video-yet/

Lol..here's a quote from that.

"and will likely be best in segment (possibly even better than the LJ Wrangler at the higher air suspension settings). "

It better be seeing how they haven't made one of those in 13 years...lol. And I bet a LJ Ruby wood still beat the pants off this in the more articulated terrain imho.

 

[JeepColorado]

I was told by a good friend who owns an auto shop here in the metroplex to stay away from land rovers. So I did now I own my first wrangler!

They have earned every bit of their reputation as unreliable at times. It's why they are concentrating so much on reliabli

Lol..here's a quote from that.

"and will likely be best in segment (possibly even better than the LJ Wrangler at the higher air suspension settings). "

It better be seeing how they haven't made one of those in 13 years...lol. And I bet a LJ Ruby wood still beat the pants off this in the more articulated terrain imho.

I think your post is indicative of what I see that is typically wrong about the way most Jeep owners see off-roading...they have an incredibly limited view. If you are into recreational off-roading, in particular rock crawling- there isn't a better out of the box 4x4 than a Jeep Wrangler. But, if you do almost any other type of off-roading- if you need storage capacity, such as in overlanding, if you drive your 4x4 mostly on the road- which almost everyone does, if you are simply looking to access graded Forest service roads to running trails like Hells Revenge, but want to do it riding in comfort and with power----there are numerous 4x4s that are MUCH better choices. Jeep Wranglers have always lacked storage, power, riding comfort and drivability on the way to the trail. They are getting better at driving on the road- the power is still incredibly lacking and the storage capacity of a 4-door Wrangler is about the same as a Toyota Camry.

This has left a massive hole in the market. If, and I emphasize IF, LR can fill that with a reliable vehicle with more power, more storage, and typical LR comfort and driving dynamics which are not even close to comparable they are so much better than the Jeep- it will be a competitor. Some people will always like the lack of sophistication a Jeep has, or to put it positively, the rowdiness, a Jeep has, but it's currently facing more competition than it ever has and much more is coming in the Defender and the Bronco.

 

[RubenZ]

From what I’ve seen of the defender it doesn’t appear like it would have more storage than a JLU.

 

[wanderer]

@JeepColorado
Having driven off road vehicles daily for 45years for work I may be missing something here. My new Jl rides really nice. Doesn’t feel underpowered even with 35s Now my old 08 did for 10 years. But I also got no tickets I had a grand Cherokee with a HEMI for my wife it was nice. Tooboth were very reliable. My 07 tacoma didn’t feel particularly more power than my 08;Jeep rubicon. It was. But didn’t really feel like it and certainly less than the new jl I have owned a discovery 2. That wasn’t really powerful either nor reliable. I think that perhaps the point here is that the defender seems to be verging away from its true origins to me it seems like the new defender is what could have happened to the jeep if they went ifs so far everyone I spoke to that has a discovery did not think much of it. Let’s face it the evolution of the discovery from solid faxes to ifs seems to be what the defender is headed for. Which in my view is a shame

 

[wanderer]

Also as far as off-roading goes in my view the jeep is way better. Not just for rock crawling. But on all levels. Steep, off camber, straddling ruts, maybe everything except washboard imho

 

[Rudolph Hart]

@JeepColorado

It seems unlikely the Defender will come with ‘more power’ because in the U.K. the green lobby is winning. Manufacturers launching any new models with internal combustion engines are attracting negative publicity. The days of large capacity/high consumption engines are over.

JLR, assisted by the U.K. government, are making a major investment in battery technology/manufacturing..I would guess a fully electric Defender is your best bet for ‘more power’ but that’s further down the line.

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