Jeep vs Defender

[M0ondogy]

I don't see it that way at all. What it boils down to is capability.

Most vehicles are not capable of traversing large boulders without breaking things. Vehicles that can are deemed more capable.

But it's not simply "rockcrawling". I've had the good fortune to wheel over a lot of our country...and in just about any area, you can find some really nasty hillclimbs, v-notched ruts, sandstone ledges, deep mud holes and the like that are going to require either a complete willingness to ignore occupant safety, vehicle longevity and environmental impact or good equipment like lockers, 4:1, etc. (factory offered or aftermarket) to get through those types of trails. For some reason, everyone thinks lockers are just for rockcrawling...anyone who's wheeled the more extreme end of the trail ride spectrum knows they aren't limited to that one application.

Said it before, but it bears repeating...."overlanding" in the US is really just car camping for the most part. There's nothing particularly technical or difficult about it. You're traveling long distances on either graded roads or somewhat maintained (the level of maintenance is debatable) two tracks. Just about any 4wd vehicle (even with open diffs) could make most of these roads and water crossings are usually biggest obstacles encountered. Running out of fuel or losing a tire are generally the biggest concerns. I honestly don't think a Jeep is a very good vehicle for that purpose...there are far better, more reliable options out there if that's your type of 4wheeling.

It sounds like we are saying the same thing and thinking the same way, but just coming to a different conclusion.

I guess without knowing the full story on the Defender, to me, it looks like the slight step down in general capability from the wrangler isn't that bad considering the bump in luxury. Especially for how much the Rubicon retails for.

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[wanderer]

I don’t know what sites you are looking at as far as overlanding goes but there are many many that deal with jeeps Just search . You tube. Yes you could say that anything other than back packing is just car camping. As far as reliability goes. I think most everything is reliable these days for gravel or paved road. It is when you push things a bit. Ifs in the fj cruiser is weak I think the same in Tacoma running bigger tires. Let’s face it you can’t exactly throw a set of 35s on a land rover. So no I don’t agree overlanding is a bit more than car camping. And jeeps are really good for overlanding Because like I and many others have said most dirt roads are mostly good. But there are stretches of off camber, mud , rock gullies washouts etc on most remote dirt roads that you may want to explore.

To return to the subject. LR has done us 4x4 enthusiasts and their own reputation a disservice if they insist on using ifs that’s not rock buggy tough The same goes for Chevy. Putting the blazer name on a cross over. But. I rant. Though I did see tha gmc might come out with a Jeep fighter that uses Colorado frame (zr2). And looks like it could come with 35s. But through it all land rover ford and Chevy have let us alll down by discontinuing their off road line. Periodically.. The fj was an insult. To true land cruiser enthusiasts. Jeep has not. And that’s that. Besides who is going drop 80,to 100k on a “land cruiser” platform as the best overlander. I don’t see it as any different for a defender.

 

[56nomad56]

Love all the banter about the Defender, before even a single review or offroad test.

The upcoming Defender and Bronco, along with the Wrangler, Mercedes G-Class, and 4Runner/Land Cruiser, are imminently more capable than 99% of their owners will require.

Wanted to get the wife a used LR4 but reliability was an issue. So we ended up with an FCA product lol joke's on us.

 

[Baddog2020]

Agree.
Around 5% of BMW R1200GS riders go off road.
They just want to be seen as 'adventure'.
Wrangler actually go off road more than 5% though, maybe 50% I guess?

I’m a GS owner and most don’t go off road, but the larger appeal is the versatility, Can carve the twisties with sport bikes, cruise cross country, commute, and is fast enough to be irresponsible. It also looks like something from Mad Max.

I love the old Defenders especially the 110, and will be curious to see what the new ones will look like. But unless I hit the lottery, I will hold on to my Jeep. Defenders are iconic, but so are Wranglers.

 

[wanderer]

I grew up riding and racing dirt bikes everything from a honda CT-70 to a ATK 604. XR 400, 600 IT 200 ktm 360 a lot of bikes. I can't imagine riding or I should say crashing a BMW 1200 How do you lift it up? But I do agree I would love on in a second if was 46 instead of 66. Now I think a little ct-90 or 110 would be a hoot.
For me it is knowingthat if I decide to just go there and there is te side or over the mountain I just go, since I am a geologist I do get to use it for work to.
I have already said my peice on the defender. There is potential but we just have to see if LR will own it or pretend to.

 

[RubenZ]

No thanks. That ground clearance looks no better than my grandmothers old Saturn Vue. That’s going to be a soccer moms dream though! Aftermarket will suck for it, it’ll be expensive, maintenance and cost wise. The modularity will just not be there. I don’t understand the big hype for this. This is not the Land Rover of 10+ years ago.

And is it really Unibody? That’s lame.

 

[wanderer]

agreed

 

[OnlyOne]

There won’t be a Jeep vs Defender unless you are comparing a WK2. There is no other comparison to a stock base Sport wrangler let alone a Rubicon. And as far as the Bronco goes, just forget it. I’m sure Ford will screw it up somehow and I own a Lincoln.

 

[JeepColorado]

There won’t be a Jeep vs Defender unless you are comparing a WK2. There is no other comparison to a stock base Sport wrangler let alone a Rubicon. And as far as the Bronco goes, just forget it. I’m sure Ford will screw it up somehow and I own a Lincoln.

Latest reports for the Defender indicate-

3 Diff Locks, 18" wheels and coils as an option, built to higher engineering standards than any vehicle LR has ever made for the civilian market. It's engineered to above their current civilian vehicles and below their military grade vehicles. Control arms, bushings, etc... all of that will be thicker, more durable etc...

This is something that people don't get about the Land Cruiser...many vehicles are built to a 10 yr standard for life- an LC is built to 25 years. Crawl under one- the parts are thick, the metals are harder.

If Land Rover is brings lockers and coils like a Jeep, builds in 25 yr durability like a Land Cruiser and has that typical Land Rover luxury on par with a Mercedes G-Wagon it will strike an incredible balance that will be more powerful than a Wrangler, as or mostly as off-road capable as well, as luxurious and with the great driving characteristics of a G-Wagon and have the durability of a Toyota.

I think for overall use it will absolutely compete with Jeep.

 

[OnlyOne]

Latest reports for the Defender indicate-

3 Diff Locks, 18" wheels and coils as an option, built to higher engineering standards than any vehicle LR has ever made for the civilian market. It's engineered to above their current civilian vehicles and below their military grade vehicles. Control arms, bushings, etc... all of that will be thicker, more durable etc...

This is something that people don't get about the Land Cruiser...many vehicles are built to a 10 yr standard for life- an LC is built to 25 years. Crawl under one- the parts are thick, the metals are harder.

If Land Rover is brings lockers and coils like a Jeep, builds in 25 yr durability like a Land Cruiser and has that typical Land Rover luxury on par with a Mercedes G-Wagon it will strike an incredible balance that will be more powerful than a Wrangler, as or mostly as off-road capable as well, as luxurious and with the great driving characteristics of a G-Wagon and have the durability of a Toyota.

I think for overall use it will absolutely compete with Jeep.

I can appreciate your post and although well thought out, I stand by mine. It will be nothing near even the base wrangler. And even if it was just a little better the the WK2 it will be so expensive, the price alone will kill the VS argument.

 

[JeepColorado]

I can appreciate your post and although well thought out, I stand by mine. It will be nothing near even the base wrangler. And even if it was just a little better the the WK2 it will be so expensive, the price alone will kill the VS argument.

I don't disagree- it will likely get a little spendy! Most estimates guess between high $40s to mid $70s! The good news is that the 18" rims and coil springs etc... will be the lower end of that spectrum. It's the air ride suspension and 22s and all the comfort features inside (most of which I don't care for) that will push it into the $70s.

I've owned several Jeeps, in particular Wrangler- LOVE THEM! But to be honest, in the last few years I've really noticed how underpowered they are- you put mud tires, bumpers, winch, load up the dogs and some camping gear and you are struggling up the inclines here in the Rockies very quickly. I've ridden in some Land Cruisers and Range Rovers and they ride SO MUCH BETTER! They are just a lot more drivable in my opinion. I'll still run Hells Revenge type trails and below but I don't do the really crazy stuff anymore.

Definitely not saying that when I go to purchase it will be an easy decision. Just saying that I see Land Rover elevating it's game. I've never owned one- I've always gone with Jeep, but what they are doing with the Defender is very interesting.

Jeep can change my mind very quickly-- Put a HEMI in the Wrangler!!!

 

[OnlyOne]

I don't disagree- it will likely get a little spendy! Most estimates guess between high $40s to mid $70s! The good news is that the 18" rims and coil springs etc... will be the lower end of that spectrum. It's the air ride suspension and 22s and all the comfort features inside (most of which I don't care for) that will push it into the $70s.

I've owned several Jeeps, in particular Wrangler- LOVE THEM! But to be honest, in the last few years I've really noticed how underpowered they are- you put mud tires, bumpers, winch, load up the dogs and some camping gear and you are struggling up the inclines here in the Rockies very quickly. I've ridden in some Land Cruisers and Range Rovers and they ride SO MUCH BETTER! They are just a lot more drivable in my opinion. I'll still run Hells Revenge type trails and below but I don't do the really crazy stuff anymore.

Definitely not saying that when I go to purchase it will be an easy decision. Just saying that I see Land Rover elevating it's game. I've never owned one- I've always gone with Jeep, but what they are doing with the Defender is very interesting.

Jeep can change my mind very quickly-- Put a HEMI in the Wrangler!!!

You must not have driven the turbo yet. It’s a little beast. I’m at 7k feet and with 37s you don’t even notice them. It is really crazy quick. I would say at our altitude the turbo would still run as good as the hemi would. That’s not in any way an exaggeration.

 

[JeepColorado]

You must not have driven the turbo yet. It’s a little beast. I’m at 7k feet and with 37s you don’t even notice them. It is really crazy quick. I would say at our altitude the turbo would still run as good as the hemi would. That’s not in any way an exaggeration.

That's good advice! I'll definitely give it a shot- I'm waiting to see what Land Rover does with the Defender...I'm also curious about the Bronco. I'll buy in the next 2 years. Want to see a turn key JL from AEV, want to drive a Defender first.

 

[Rudolph Hart]

Latest reports for the Defender indicate-

3 Diff Locks, 18" wheels and coils as an option, built to higher engineering standards than any vehicle LR has ever made for the civilian market. It's engineered to above their current civilian vehicles and below their military grade vehicles. Control arms, bushings, etc... all of that will be thicker, more durable etc...

This is something that people don't get about the Land Cruiser...many vehicles are built to a 10 yr standard for life- an LC is built to 25 years. Crawl under one- the parts are thick, the metals are harder.

If Land Rover is brings lockers and coils like a Jeep, builds in 25 yr durability like a Land Cruiser and has that typical Land Rover luxury on par with a Mercedes G-Wagon it will strike an incredible balance that will be more powerful than a Wrangler, as or mostly as off-road capable as well, as luxurious and with the great driving characteristics of a G-Wagon and have the durability of a Toyota.

I think for overall use it will absolutely compete with Jeep.

It’s a very long time since Land Rover made a ‘military grade vehicle’. Its also a long time since Land Rover made a reliable vehicle or a vehicle capable of more than shopping and the school run. I think you are going to be disappointed.

Current models are over complicated, over priced, under developed and spend inordinate amounts of time in dealers workshops.

There is nothing to suggest the new Defender will be any different.

 

[RubenZ]

Exactly. I think he's living in a pipe dream. This thing will be nothing more than an overpriced grocery getter.

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