Jeep snobbery - RANT

[jeepoch]

To the point of the thread - Jeep Snobbery (in a round-about way):

I live in Colorado and had driven the family Dodge Grand Caravan into the ground (almost 300K miles) over the last 15 or so years . Hell, I'd still be driving it if some stupid 16 year old on his phone didn't try to kill himself. When he pulled out into traffic and I hadn't swerved, I would have T-Boned him at forty mph and he would certainly not be around to be on his phone any longer.

Other than the fact that everyone walked away unhurt, except for maybe the kid's father is now likely in the poor farm after all the insurance rate increases (both cars were totaled and he was found to be 100% at fault). I finally got to drive something I always wanted, a Wrangler.

My wife and I are now empty nesters, so without any fan-fare or much fore-thought, I found a new bright white 2019 2-door Sport S for just under $30K. Or rather I should say this Jeep found us, but that's for a different story.

Regardless, back to the point of this thread. When I first purchased the JL, I had no idea about any Jeep culture thing. Totally blind to the 'wave' or any mall-crawler vs Rubicon off-road bad-ass'ism envy. I was pretty oblivious to all of the Jeep social and societal etiquette.

However, I had bought into the Wrangler mantra of being able to drive it nearly anywhere you care to go. At the time, just the enticement of possibly going off-road, while not the primary factor, was nonetheless rather appealing. Still, without realizing it the stock sport with it's open diffs just isn't capable enough to do anything really serious.

Living in Colorado and researching the off-road possibilities opened up a brand new vista for my wife and I. We both are outdoor adventurists at heart and given this new potential freedom to explore was truly a godsend. Jumping a little ahead, we are now seeing parts of our state that only really serious off-roaders (or wilderness hikers) can enjoy.

Unfortunately early on, I quickly learned that while stock sports are better than nearly all other vehicles ever built for getting into the great outdoors (for us our Colorado back yard), it just was not at all capable of going over the vast majority of the even moderately difficult Forest Service trails that meander throughout Colorado.

So I invested in a 2.5" lift, 35" all-terrain tires, wider stance (17x9, -12mm offset) wheels, and a quick disconnect sway bar kit. Essentially I now have everything a Rubicon has minus the lockers.

With this setup and some practice (and joining a Jeep Club certainly helped), we regularly now accomplish the difficult to severe routes with little to no difficulty whatsoever. Off-roading is truly a blast, and anyone not doing it in their Jeep is really missing out on a whole different dimension towards amazing, breathtaking and awesome life experiences.

Sure, looking down and around from a 12,500 ft mountain pass may not be for everyone, however for us the pure joy of the journey in getting there more than pays for the cost of admission. If you can afford a Rubi with the intent of using it for what is was designed for, don't pass on the opportunity. I perhaps will someday trade up.

Truthfully for the two of us, there is no real desire to either cliff-climb or rock-crawl. It's more of the thrill in going wheeling with the knowledge that the occasional obstacle (or two) isn't enough to not go at all. This opens up the vast majority of our state and national forest lands where we can now go. Pure unadulterated fun. We'll sometimes adulterated but I digress and TMI.

Also learning to use your 4wd equipment is just as important. Maintaining good traction while using just enough torque in keeping it, is the secret to accomplishing any difficult obstacle. I've found that driving a Sport with some skill always beats an idiot with a Rubi. I've assisted in pulling some, admittedly stock Rubicon's, up a few hard spots just because the driver isn't able to keep good traction. Obviously with locker's this makes it way more easier, but nowhere near guarunteed. When others realize we don't have lockers they're pretty amazed. The secret is that with adequate traction, even one wheel is all that's necessary. Still, more wheels with traction the better. Don't underestimate the real value of the lockers.

Anyway, our experience is that with a stock Sport, we got the occasional Jeep wave but only if initiated by us. Now however with the more capable lifted and larger tire setup, almost all Jeeper's now wave even before we attempt to. We get many (many) more waves than ever before.

So there is a definitive aspect to some snobbery. The bad-ass looking Jeep's whether used off-road or not certainly appear to get more Jeep respect.

Or maybe it's just all the mountain mud we now accumulate on ours.

Use your Jeep however it is that gives you the most smileage. Don't give a crap whatever anyone else thinks. Drive it to the mall with pride or take it up some deep forest trail to some high mountain lake with joy. Wherever you go, it's your Jeep getting you there. Modify it to your heart's content (or not). With what other vehicle can you do this? There is truly no other vehicle experience quite like a Jeep.

Best investment we've ever made. The minivan had its purpose. With the JL, there are whole other dimensions. Best daily driver I've ever owned by far bar none.

So no rant from me. Just happy bloviation.

Jay

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[Dr. RGB]

I could have bought any jeep I wanted (cash) and ended up with my yellow JL Sport S. It had what I wanted/needed and I like it.

I'm guessing at some point people might laugh at a guy with a yellow Jeep but I don't care.

Being happy in your own skin is what it's all about in this world for me.

I correct people when they say I have a yellow Jeep. Let them know that it is HELLAYELLA!

 

[wibornz]

Been a nice entertaining read this morning. I believe in fun, not snobberies.. Yet at times I do get it. I wave at all types of Jeeps including SBXJ jeeps. After all my daily driver is a SBXJ. I try and keep my JLUR as a garage queen and just bring it out for occasional drives and wheeling trips, trails and camping. I do lead big trail rides for the Jeep club and often have anywhere from 20 to 40 Jeeps on a trail run. Love them all.

The funny thing is while driving my SBXJ, and talk to other Jeepers, sometimes I get all kinds of hate from non JL owners. I get a laugh out of that. There are times that I will have a fellow JLUR owner tell me how great his JLUR is and I have to tell him that my SBXJ will out wheel it. I will get all the tech reasons why his JLUR is better and I will remind him that unless he is willing to jump it 6 feet off the ground, flip it upside down, blow the motor up and burn it to the ground, that he will probably not out wheel my SBXJ. Hell the bead lock wheels and tires cost more than I paid for my SBXJ.

Then the funniest thing is I will get from 2dr owners of just abut every model and year of wrangler is that my JLUR is not a real Jeep. I kind of chuckle and say well have you wheeled Pritchett Canyon, Black Bear Pass, Holy Cross, trail 16 in Windrock or the Rubicon trail with your real Jeep? No, your real cool looking 2dr must look awesome outside of Olive Garden. Good thing the park lot is paved at Home Depot.

I bought a JLUR for the specific reason of wheeling all over the country. My take was that I wanted lockers incase I got somewhere with out them and needed them to get out. The Rubicon over the other models was more like an insurance policy. Better to have the capability and not use it than to not have the capability and need it. I have been building the JLUR for the specific purpose of off roading from the Arizona/Mexico boarder to Dead Horse Alaska.

So if you see me, I will probably waving, or waving back..... Even if you have an angry grill.

 

[Dr. RGB]

• The Jeep code or Jeep wave is a ridiculous concept. JK & JL Wranglers are not rare enough to deserve some sort of secret club that requires waving at every other Wrangler or JT... My other daily driver is actually somewhat rare, and you DO NOT pass another one without acknowledging the other driver (which about once a month). It's not something you're expected to do, it's something that all the owner's do out of mutual respect (probably how the Jeep wave used to be).

Hmm, I was always under the impression that the Jeep wave was not about a secret club, but acknowledging the joys and pains (and there are many pains) another human being feels while owning a Jeep (specifically, does anyone remember the seam on the top of the YJ's soft top? After some time it would start to spit and when it would rain, the water would seep into the Jeep, rest on the sound bar and then all of the sudden, when you brake hard, all that cold water rushes right down your back!!!). That's why I wave to other Jeeps.

 

[Warped]

This is going to ruffle some feathers, but here it goes nonetheless.

I have owned 9 Wranglers over a 12-year period; a mix of Saharas and Rubicons, 2-doors and 4-doors, soft tops and hardtops, manuals and automatics. I have taken them to the beach, to the mountains, to the desert, to work, to the mall and to National Parks. I have driven them in snow, in the rain, over ice, rocks and sand dunes; in July 120 degrees in Death Valley and in -25 degrees in January in Colorado.

Eight of those Wranglers were JKs. My first one was a 2008 Sahara I bought used: it was a base with a 6-speed manual and a soft top, but I was hooked. At one time I owned two of them side-by-side: one was a 2-door Rubicon for the trails; the other was a 4-door Sahara for long road trips in winter. What I love about Wranglers is that I can pack and go at any time, any time of year, without concern for the terrain or the weather; I just know my Jeep will get me there and back.

My last JK was a top-of-the-line 2018 JKUR Recon. It was the most expensive Wrangler I ever bought but it was a complete disappointment: the assembly quality was terrible; it rattled and squeaked; the body panels were grossly misaligned; the ride was harsh. To make matters worse, my local dealer was a total dickhead with the warranty. Hardly what you would expect from a $52,000 price tag —even after having owned several JKs before. In hindsight, it was a mistake buying that last Rubicon.

When I shopped for a JL I test drove a dozen of them; a mix of Rubicons and Saharas, 2-doors and 4-doors; manual and automatic. I had relocated from California to Washington so I found myself doing less extreme off-roading, but more extreme weather. The availability of Selec-Trac was more appealing than a swaybar disconnect or lockers; and after the harsh ride on that JK Recon, comfort gained importance.

I found a sweet deal on an unsold 2018 Sahara sitting 1,000 miles away. I picked it up almost a year ago: the Selec-Trac is just awesome in the snow; the drive and ride is refined and comfortable; it can tackle the off-road trails around here with ease; the fit-and-finish is excellent, and it’s been totally trouble-free so far. I am tickled happy with it.

However, I find something’s fundamentally changed in the Jeep community with the advent of JL. Perhaps the steep new prices make JLs more “precious.” Or JL is attracting a greater proportion of first-time Jeep buyers who don’t know the Wrangler “code” yet. Or FCA has gone a bit overboard with all the “Jeep imagery” and turned Wrangler into a bit of a status symbol. Whatever the reason, I find it is now common to be looked down upon for not driving the “right” type of Wrangler. I now have to justify at every turn why I drive a Sahara. Some may not even realize it, but Sahara owners regularly get accused of being poor drivers, bad off-roaders, mall crawlers, even poseurs, all because we drive a Sahara. Ironically, half the time we get lectured by Rubicon owners who never even take their Jeeps off-road. I try not to be over sensitive to it, but it is a bit weird.

Do Sport owners get this too?

One of the nice things of being part of the Jeep community was the feeling of close camaraderie, no matter what Wrangler you drove. I never felt I had to justify to anyone that I drove a Sahara or a 2-door. A Wrangler was a Wrangler and that was that.

Feel free to reply, agree, disagree, joke, flame, share your hypothesis, but please let’s keep it civil.

I have heard some of the comments about Rubicon owners that don't go off-road and wasted their money, but nothing about Sport or Sahara models. This is my first Wrangler and I haven't had an offroader since the late 1990s when I took a series of Nissan trucks and Pathfinders off-road. But I have always wanted a Wrangler and have kicked myself for not getting a CJ-7 back in 1985 that I almost got!

A friend of mine has been trying to get me to get a Wrangler, and I have always wanted one. He is on his 2nd Sahara that never goes off the pavement and his buddy has a Rubicon that doesn't see anything other than asphalt or concrete. So, my wife died in February of this year and I traded her car in on my first Wrangler (JLUR)! Had the dealer put 35" tires on 20" wheels and thought it looked good. Found a new lady friend during COVID and we were married in 6 weeks and honeymooned by taking the new Jeep out on Assateague Island and driving/surfing on the beach

2 other coworkers have JLU Sports with 35s. One is a mall crawler with 24" wheels and the other is into off-roading. Turns out, our office has a Jeep club. The group was going to Rausch Creek Off-Road Park and I happily tagged along to see what a Rubicon could do in it's element. There were 6 Wranglers and a lifted Land Cruiser. The big boss lady has a Sahara with a lift and 35s and she drove it like she stole it. Several of these members have been out to Utah and Colorado to trail ride in Sports, Saharas, and Rubicons.

Bottom line, as a new Wrangler guy, I have no per-conceived biases on trim levels of Wranglers. I've seen some nice mall crawlers and nice trail rigs. I don't care if you duck Jeeps, wave, rock crawl, mud crawl, or mall crawl. I just like the Jeep community. The original post reminded me of the Harley forums where the Street Glide owners bash the Road Glide owners even though they are based on the same frame. Petty crap is part of our society in all areas. Just be happy where you are and be the beacon of light for the community as a whole.

 

[wibornz]

As far as color, I wanted a Mojito colored Jeep. I took the wife and showed her a Mojito colored jeep and she said, "that's a nice color for a girls Jeep or do you plan on just putting golf clubs in the Jeep and joining a country club." Basically, she hated it. I also liked the firecracker red, but thought I would grow board with it. Ordered a white and then accented it out the way I wanted. My wife knew we were getting a white jeep all along.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Being a Rubicon owner, I see a bit of the "you're either a rock crawler or a poser" mentality on the forums. I don't let it bother me. I'm no rock crawler and have little interest in going out of my way to see how close I can come to catastrophe. It just doesn't interest me anymore. I do use it for why I bought it. I hunt out of it with my bird dog and use it as a townie dog hauler, grocery getter. It is also intended to be a toad behind a RV, but we are holding our RV plans due to caring for a family member.

 

[CMF150]

I have a 2021 Sahara Altitude Mall Crawler Edition on order for my wife and do not give a rat's a** what others think about it. LIfe's too short to care what others think.

 

[Whisky19]

I’m going to summarize this thread in the most simplistic way. If you own a Jeep and snub other Jeep owners, for any reason.... your an IDIOT. Have a nice day.

 

[Roky]

We bought our rig to wheel. We’re 80/20 off-road/ on road. You’ll never be snubbed, looked down, or talked shit about for what trim you have by us that’s just not how we roll. Honestly, I had no idea this went on until this thread, it’s just not something we encounter here. I’ve noticed more of that kind of shit from JK owners to JL owners, although that’s lightened up considerably lately...........On a lighter note, I’m just glad there’s enough room for my post, some of these guys can freakin talk man! ........... No disrespect..........

 

[Headbarcode]

I've spent an exorbitant amount of time on this forum over the last 3 years. I've seen zero of this Rubicon elitist mentality. I have seen very obvious light hearted humor, like chocolate thunders and daltongangs previous posts. But nothing stabbing. I have seen a lot of semi hatred towards Rubicons, from Sport and Sahara owners. I see a lot of justifying why someone didn't get a Rubicon, yet they were never asked. I'm clearly seeing insecurities being projected towards those who have what certain individuals quietly wish they had. Its the false sense of hurt pride that causes most people to not look internally, but rather seak out some one or something else to blame. Society would improve greatly when people realize that they lose dignity when defending pride that was never on the line.

 

[eck]

I've spent an exorbitant amount of time on this forum over the last 3 years. I've seen zero of this Rubicon elitist mentality. I have seen very obvious light hearted humor, like chocolate thunders and daltongangs previous posts. But nothing stabbing. I have seen a lot of semi hatred towards Rubicons, from Sport and Sahara owners. I see a lot of justifying why someone didn't get a Rubicon, yet they were never asked. I'm clearly seeing insecurities being projected towards those who have what certain individuals quietly wish they had. Its the false sense of hurt pride that causes most people to not look internally, but rather seak out some one or something else to blame. Society would improve greatly when people realize that they lose dignity when defending pride that was never on the line.

You must have never gone into any of the MOAB threads when it came out then

Although to be fair, most of that was tongue-in-cheek and in good fun. But some people can't take a joke, and some people take it too far to a point where it stops being a joke.

 

[Unkle Fester]

Owning a Sahara is like living in Cleveland...

Just kidding. I see it too. I just bought a JL Recon and because of how it looks, everyone assumes I never take it off road. It has the color matched top and fenders, 2” lift and 35’s. I keep it hella clean. It really surprises people to see it off road.

I think the jeep owner demographic is changing. But that’s not a bad thing, this is my 6th jeep and I’ve watched the community evolve over the last 30+ years. I just consider it being part of a community that changes over time.

I’ve seen people build Jeeps I love... and ones that cannot be unseen... but I believe you buy it and build it to make you happy, not someone else. So my opinion and thoughts really don’t matter.

Are the comments unnecessary? Certainly. But nobody says you have to listen to them. If someone wants to criticize my jeep or my choices, I’m happy to listen and let them have their rant. Then happily have an epic adventure down a trail and not give it a second thought.

as a side note, in Korea Jeep’s are like Ferrari’s. Kept in a garage and driven on the occasional weekend during the summer. I had a Rubicon Hard Rock the last year I was there and got preferred treatment wherever I went... really odd

 

[Roky]

You must have never gone into any of the MOAB threads when it came out then

Although to be fair, most of that was tongue-in-cheek and in good fun. But some people can't take a joke, and some people take it too far to a point where it stops being a joke.

I was in that thread, hella good times, and the Moabs gave every bit as much as they got, trust me. You’re right though, there were a few knotted panties........

 

[LTLWLLY]

I wanted my JLUR to be Yellow. Wife put an end to that. She said she is not driving a big fat Bumblebee around town. Instead she gave me only two choices: White or Black. I cried inside when I custom ordered it in White.

Our house is the opposite, husband wanted white but told me to order whatever as it will be my daily driver (we have a 2014 JK Willys for our trail Jeep). I went with a yellow Willys JLU and haven’t told anyone what color I ordered. He‘ll find out when we roll into the Dealer and pick it up.....hope he likes it.

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