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Jeep Quietly Leaves Huge Market (China)

ChuckQue

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Posted this in another thread:

The Joint Venture (JV) structure that Stellantis had with their Chinese partner is classic CCP strategy. 1) Force foreign companies wanting to do business in China to secure a domestic Chinese investor partner. 2) As condition of JV, require the Foriegn non-Chinese partner to share all of their proprietary trade secrets, designs and IP knowledge with Chinese based JV partner. 3) Chinese government then makes business for JV so challenging in China that non-Chinese partner has no choice but to abandon business. 4) Remaining Chinese partner retains all of the proprietary trade secrets, designs and IP knowledge and can go on and become "Successful" CCP-approved Chinese domestic business.

Be on the lookout for Chinese made "Joops" and the newly iconic 8 slot grills.
Exactly. They arenā€™t innovative, they prefer to just steal, trick or deceive their way into everything.
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LooselyHeldPlans

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Or maybe itā€™s just that their goodwill in China isnā€™t worth much and they donā€™t offer any vehicles suited for the tastes of that market's consumers.

If you think any large corporation is doing something for the sake of patriotism, youā€™re nuts. They only care about patriotism when itā€™s highly correlated to profit.
 

Old Jeeper

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Or maybe itā€™s just that their goodwill in China isnā€™t worth much and they donā€™t offer any vehicles suited for the tastes of that market's consumers.

If you think any large corporation is doing something for the sake of patriotism, youā€™re nuts. They only care about patriotism when itā€™s highly correlated to profit.
As a consultant to the Fortune 250, here is my take: The money they make comes more from accident than on purpose.

I was a consultant for one of the big 5 accounting firms, not going to mention the name but they like corps were as corrupt as you could get.

Here is an example: I was brought in to Consult on a major Consulting project by the Consulting division of a huge Communications company. While I was there, the old CEO left and they hired a new one. He made a promise to save over $50 Million dollars the first month he was the CEO. He never told anyone how, but he sold them, he came from another Fortune 100. Well, he kept his promise. The week he came to work he laid off, thousands of people, he cut the Divison I was consulting for and when the projects were over, you were gone. He did save $50 M in wages his first month. But at WHAT cost??/

What I found at the Fortune level were MASSIVE ego and an incredible lack of just common sense..
 

Chugiakguy

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I think Stellantis should come out with a special edition "Winnie the Pooh" Jeep*, complete with much vigorous 1.2 liter 2-cylinder engine, 12.4" permanently enabled telescreen, social credit-scoring gas pedal, and all-Amazon-sourced Chinese knockoff electronics and components. With a bumper-to-bumper warranty good for 5 weeks or 500 miles, whichever comes first.



*Some assembly required. Batteries not included.
 

aldo98229

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A lot of companies are severing ties with China, not just Stellantis.

The lure of the big market opportunity lost its luster the moment the CCP started lying through its teeth over COVID, annexed Hong Kong, bullied foreign companies, and started threatening Taiwan and Japan.

The world has split up between East and West once again, and that is going to have deep economic consequences everywhere; including us here in America. Chinaā€™s cheap manufacturing kept the Westā€™s inflation in check in for decades.
 

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2) As condition of JV, require the Foriegn non-Chinese partner to share all of their proprietary trade secrets, designs and IP knowledge with Chinese based JV partner.
I believe it, but OTOH I think the major companies are usually pretty clever about licensing IP and keeping that stuff in a central place. I doubt the Chinese arm was given access to the engineering software. They likely only had the bare minimum needed to manufacture things.

Of course that's still dumb.

But I think those CEOs are the type that would sell their mother if the price was right. Anything for short term profits.

I still remember for a brief period when GM discontinued all of their large sedans except the Cadillac CT-6. There was a factory in China building them still. So for a while, the flagship American sedan was... made in China lol.
 

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I'm all for this. All US Companies should pull out of China. Things are not going to get better with relations anytime soon.

And few people realize the sheer amount of US Technology the Chinese steal is really hard to comprehend.

Good riddance.
 

Chugiakguy

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I'm all for this. All US Companies should pull out of China. Things are not going to get better with relations anytime soon.

And few people realize the sheer amount of US Technology the Chinese steal is really hard to comprehend.

Good riddance.
I always thought that it was idiotic, short-sighted, blinkered insanity to move so much US manufacturing over to China.
Almost the textbook definition of "Penny-wise and pound-foolish".
 

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A lot of companies are severing ties with China, not just Stellantis.

The lure of the big market opportunity lost its luster the moment the CCP started lying through its teeth over COVID, annexed Hong Kong, bullied foreign companies, and started threatening Taiwan and Japan.

The world has split up between East and West once again, and that is going to have deep economic consequences everywhere; including us here in America. Chinaā€™s cheap manufacturing kept the Westā€™s inflation in check in for decades.
Good post, Aldo.

It is a complicated situation.

My company (aerospace hardware manufacturer) has been selling to the Chinese for years and I have been to many cities in China over 2 decades and dozens of trips. So I want to think I can speak knowledgeably here.

Bringing western technology to China and normalizing relations with them goes back 50 years to the Nixon administration. I was all for it until recently believing strong trade is a good thing for peace and stability... let alone a godsend for the millions of peasants living and working in mostly rural areas for 'peanuts'.

Unfortunately we 'let' China take advantage of us due to our eagerness to make friends and bring them to the 21st century while ignoring the 'long play'. Our short term business strategy ran out of gas while they stole our technology.

My company is in a different situation than most US companies dealing with China. We are an exporter rather than an importer. We are pulling back not because of offshoring manufacturing. We are pulling back because of the recent hostile overtures by the Chinese government.

We did toy with bringing manufacturing via a JV to further our penetration in the Chinese market, the fastest growing market with the biggest potential in the world. But we decided against as the business case (building to high aerospace quality standards) was nearly as costly as doing it in house.

I still think that strong bilateral and fair trade is the ultimate answer but for now... the US needs to be strong and regain some lost independence to allow us to do so. If the SHTF, we better have the raw material access and manufacturing might or we will be in trouble.
 

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I think Stellantis should come out with a special edition "Winnie the Pooh" Jeep*, complete with much vigorous 1.2 liter 2-cylinder engine, 12.4" permanently enabled telescreen, social credit-scoring gas pedal, and all-Amazon-sourced Chinese knockoff electronics and components. With a bumper-to-bumper warranty good for 5 weeks or 500 miles, whichever comes first.



*Some assembly required. Batteries not included.
You sold me at the ā€œsocial credit-scoring gas pedalā€ . Now if it only came with a Cologuard kit built into the drivers seat Iā€™d purchase it tomorrow.
 

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Oncorhynchus

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Good post, Aldo.

It is a complicated situation.

My company (aerospace hardware manufacturer) has been selling to the Chinese for years and I have been to many cities in China over 2 decades and dozens of trips. So I want to think I can speak knowledgeably here.

Bringing western technology to China and normalizing relations with them goes back 50 years to the Nixon administration. I was all for it until recently believing strong trade is a good thing for peace and stability... let alone a godsend for the millions of peasants living and working in mostly rural areas for 'peanuts'.

Unfortunately we 'let' China take advantage of us due to our eagerness to make friends and bring them to the 21st century while ignoring the 'long play'. Our short term business strategy ran out of gas while they stole our technology.

My company is in a different situation than most US companies dealing with China. We are an exporter rather than an importer. We are pulling back not because of offshoring manufacturing. We are pulling back because of the recent hostile overtures by the Chinese government.

We did toy with bringing manufacturing via a JV to further our penetration in the Chinese market, the fastest growing market with the biggest potential in the world. But we decided against as the business case (building to high aerospace quality standards) was nearly as costly as doing it in house.

I still think that strong bilateral and fair trade is the ultimate answer but for now... the US needs to be strong and regain some lost independence to allow us to do so. If the SHTF, we better have the raw material access and manufacturing might or we will be in trouble.
Weā€™re already in trouble. We just donā€™t realize it yet. I too work in specialty US-headquartered manufacturing company in an industry that the Chinese still cannot come close to equaling. We have production facilities in China but it is not much cheaper to manufacture there. Itā€™s the proximity to supply chain and the large domestic market that resulted in the establishment of our plant in China.

Where this will all lead, who knows. To have the fate of 1.4B citizens overwhelmingly in the hands of one man is a recipe for instability.
 

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Well, all Iā€™ll say is if you suddenly have problems getting a GPS signal on your Garmin, hold on to your hats. Thatā€™s step one of a massive first strike. Blind us by taking out our military satellite network then LAUNCH (take that word however you want).

The next war will be fought in more domains than ever (land, sea, air, cyberspace and space), use less human-controlled munitions than ever (not just drones- Iā€™m talking AI controlled Human-Out-Of-The-Loop loitering munitions, among other things like drone swarms), and cause more casualties than ever. I donā€™t know if MAD applies anymore.

If youā€™re the POTUS and your generals tell you that China just knocked out all our satellites and weā€™re effectively blind, what do you do? Wait for them to strike first? I donā€™t know. Your options start to look extremely slim and your timeline is extremely tight. Strike first or risk being too crippled across all of the above-mentioned domains to fight back. Nuclear war starts to seem like a viable option, if there even are any others.

Weā€™ve already seen two examples of this type of warfare- Azerbaijan and Armenia in the the Second Nagorno-Karabakh conflict of 2020, effectively the first war fought and won entirely by drones, and much less effectively by Russia in the recent invasion of Ukraine (interestingly, Ukraine has learned a lot from Azerbaijan to great effect against the invaders).

Itā€™s gonna be an interesting century.
 

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Well, all Iā€™ll say is if you suddenly have problems getting a GPS signal on your Garmin, hold on to your hats. Thatā€™s step one of a massive first strike. Blind us by taking out our military satellite network then LAUNCH (take that word however you want).

The next war will be fought in more domains than ever (land, sea, air, cyberspace and space), use less human-controlled munitions than ever (not just drones- Iā€™m talking AI controlled Human-Out-Of-The-Loop loitering munitions, among other things like drone swarms), and cause more casualties than ever. I donā€™t know if MAD applies anymore.

If youā€™re the POTUS and your generals tell you that China just knocked out all our satellites and weā€™re effectively blind, what do you do? Wait for them to strike first? I donā€™t know. Your options start to look extremely slim and your timeline is extremely tight. Strike first or risk being too crippled across all of the above-mentioned domains to fight back. Nuclear war starts to seem like a viable option, if there even are any others.

Weā€™ve already seen two examples of this type of warfare- Azerbaijan and Armenia in the the Second Nagorno-Karabakh conflict of 2020, effectively the first war fought and won entirely by drones, and much less effectively by Russia in the recent invasion of Ukraine (interestingly, Ukraine has learned a lot from Azerbaijan to great effect against the invaders).

Itā€™s gonna be an interesting century.
My 2023 New Yearā€™s Eve party hat will definitely be of the tinfoil variety.
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