Pumping4Jane

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So I usually lurk in the shadows, but figured I would speak up about JD Power and Associates. First, JDP&A collects information. Then companies pay JDP&A to organize the information to make the company come ahead. So companies are not buying surveys....but they kinda are.

Example time: Think Subaru paying JDP&A for a best initial quality of a wagon with standard AWD, roof rails, and starts under $30k....kinda survey.....and shocker shocker, the Outback wins. To start off with, only a hand full of companies actually make a wagon so there goes 70% of the vehicles a buyer would actually be comparing the Outback to. And of those 3/10 vehicles (I'm just throwing out numbers) how many have standard roof rails AND start under $30k? And finally how many of those wagons that have rails and start under $30k have awd.....? That pretty much leaves the Outback. So Subaru did not pay for the survey, they just paid on how you look at the survey.

Now I am a huge fan of Jeeps and not knocking them, and a 2door JL Willys soft top will be in my future.....but these awards are absolute BS and shouldn't be taken with a gain of salt but rather the whole salt shaker.
Agreed and well put. Any survey can be skewed in order to match polled criteria. I was still shocked at how low Subaru rated in this survey. I used to sell vehicles and always perceived Subaru as being a quality buy. Still do, actually.



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scottijohn63

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Agreed and well put. Any survey can be skewed in order to match polled criteria. I was still shocked at how low Subaru rated in this survey. I used to sell vehicles and always perceived Subaru as being a quality buy. Still do, actually.
One of the things I found so interesting was the survey has been pretty consistent over the years on who's on top and bottom. The order has really been shaken up. Will be interesting to see if it is a one year thing.
 

Pumping4Jane

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One of the things I found so interesting was the survey has been pretty consistent over the years on who's on top and bottom. The order has really been shaken up. Will be interesting to see if it is a one year thing.
I blame Covids. Stupid bat flu.
 

Wombology

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Agreed and well put. Any survey can be skewed in order to match polled criteria. I was still shocked at how low Subaru rated in this survey. I used to sell vehicles and always perceived Subaru as being a quality buy. Still do, actually.
I was very surprised to see Honda, Toyota and Subaru so far down. One thing with Subaru is their CVTs can be absolute junk and fail super early. You can't repair a CVT and you have to drop almost the whole AWD system to replace everything. So many owners were being handed a ~$9k CVT replacement bill that Subaru of America initially wasn't covering. Then they quietly extended the powertrain warranty to 10years/100k. They claim its not because of a problem but I can see them ditching the metal belt CVT for an 8sp auto.

Every manufacture will have problems, but I'm curious to see what kind of things counted as a "problem". JDP&A just gives basic info.


https://www.jdpower.com/business/automotive/us-initial-quality-study-iqs
 

mcjeff

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Says in the article that it's based on the number of issues new vehicles have in the first 90 days of ownership, not a perception of quality.

Yikes, also says Tesla wouldn't let them collect data in 15 states, so they had to gather more info in the other 35. If you didn't have something to hide, why not let them collect in the other 15 :lipssealed:
As the owner of a 2018 Model 3, I had a ton of issues. That's part of the reason I'm waiting on delivery of a new 2020 JLUR.

The thing though is that it's been nothing huge. Rather, a big line of stupid issues. Body alignment. Quality. Cracked glass. Creaks. All issues that shouldn't have been a problem for a mass produced vehicle at that price point, but enough to warrant a day's trip to the service center. After the first six months, most of the issues were handled, but there are still some panel gaps that I find obnoxious -- yet they're not outside of Tesla's specification, so they won't address them. To their credit, they've fixed most issues with a smile. It seems their approach is to go with a less-than-stellar quality, but address everything as it comes up as a complaint.

When I picked mine up, the "frunk" sat about 1/2 inch below the trim line, meaning it looked like it was sunken in. How is this a thing, at delivery?!

Another example, the dash meets the frame on the driver's side and the gap is about 1/4", but on the passenger side, it's closer to 3/4".

The most annoying part is that every repair is a "drop it off, take a loaner, and we'll call you" model. There's no just waiting 30m for a quick fix. Every. Single. Time. Their service model isn't entirely mature either. I had a flat, which led to a required tow, by a truck driver that had no idea how to tow a Tesla -so he had me drive it up his flatbed.
 

Goosed

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There is no way FCA beat Lexus. No way. I have a 2013 GX with 80k that hasn’t seen a repair expcept for the air injection pump which was covered under recall. Have had my JL for 3 months and been to the dealer 4 times for recall and weird quirks already. No way.
 

rubileon

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Here is the article. It starts off with Tesla, but if you scroll down you'll see how each manufacturer did.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-jd-power-initial-quality-study-ev-rank/
Jeep JD Power Quality Ranking.jpg
That's good to know. As I write this my JLUR is at the dealership getting a water pump leak looked at, at 4000 miles. No courtesy vehicle. Here's a current advertising campaign Jeep is running in Australia:

Contrary to what JD Powers show, never had any issues with the countless Toyotas or several Mercedes-Benz vehicles we've had. But had several issues even with my JK.
 

Windshieldfarmer

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Interesting - never had a problem with Toyota’s or Honda’s. Also my Tesla Model 3 has been problem free...
 

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Jeep over Lexus? No freaking way, we buy FCA products for fun, not for stellar QA/QC.
Why, I have had no issues with my last 4 purchases, quality is excellent on mine.

you could not give me a tarted up Toyota err Lexus, a snob vehichle tapped with an ugly stick. Should fire the design studio staff for attaching the ugly beaks on the front of those things. Cousin has one of them, a over priced joke!
 

Rocket_Matt

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There is no way FCA beat Lexus. No way. I have a 2013 GX with 80k that hasn’t seen a repair expcept for the air injection pump which was covered under recall. Have had my JL for 3 months and been to the dealer 4 times for recall and weird quirks already. No way.

I think you are seriously underestimating on how much the air injection pump recall affects the score.
 

Myron

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The JDP Initial Quality metric is a funny one because it doesn't normalize for price range, or expectations. My understanding is that it's simply a count of customer-perceived imperfections that the customer reports to the selling dealer in the first 90 days. I could easily imagine that a new Lexus buyer probably has different expectations of "initial quality" than a buyer of a new Jeep.

If I've just spent $80-$100K on a Lexus, I'm probably going to complain about the slightest imperfection and go back to the dealer for a remedy. But the buyer of a new Jeep half-expects crappy fit and finish, rattles, wind noise, etc and doesn't complain because it's part of the "thing."

So in this context it doesn't surprise me that Jeep finishes ahead of the Japanese brands that are known for quality. It's the reliability-based parameters over the long term where these brands will no doubt be leaving Jeep in their dust.
 

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Funny i saw this this morning and knew i could come to the forums and find that it was being used to complain about FCA quality. Thanks for not disappointing.
 
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scottijohn63

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Funny i saw this this morning and knew i could come to the forums and find that it was being used to complain about FCA quality. Thanks for not disappointing.
I have had no issues with my 2019 Sahara.
 

VNT

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There is no way FCA beat Lexus. No way. I have a 2013 GX with 80k that hasn’t seen a repair expcept for the air injection pump which was covered under recall. Have had my JL for 3 months and been to the dealer 4 times for recall and weird quirks already. No way.

Sure they did, this is a random survey where they have customers who have purchased that make fill out their survey and return it. it is random so statistically valid. Do not confuse this with something they are paid for by any company to promote their brand, like best experience at the dealership during the sale or some metrics they can fudge. They get this from new car registrations in all 50 states, save the Tesla which was only from 35 states. I have filled out a couple of these over the years and they find you from the registry, so has nothing to do with them being paid to promote a particular brand.

A problem can be anything the customer complains about. It doesnt mean anything failed or was actually a defect, could range from a blown transmission to, infotainment doesnt work or customer thinks it doesnt work even though it does, so it pays to have a good system like U-connect instead of a complicated on with a joystick, rotart dial and clunky interface LOL

With that said many people the last 20 year bloviate how Toyota, honda, etc lead in quality based on these surveys?
So now a Domestic wins and now the survey is garbage LOL


I will tell you a little story about the retards at CR. I was an engineer at a lightbulb factory, there were at the time 3 major companies, GE, Sylvania and Phillips. CR tested commodity 60W incandescent bulbs, ( I was a development engineer in fluorescent). what the dummies at CR didnt know was all 3 would source bulbs from each other to free up equipment.


I wont go into the exact details but we were makine 60W for one of the other two companies for 5 years, note there is an etch on the bulb which shows date and unit made. Bulb, components, equipment and folks making and specs/performance including light output, watts, life were the exact same. So in essence the dummies at CR should of rated two as a tie, since they were the exact same. But in typical fashion they didnt use std test ( IES Illuminating engineering Society tests and methods) to test the lamps. Photometry equipment was garbage! Their analysis and recommendation was totally wrong! We had a copy of their article in our life test area and used to show customers ( mainly distributors of lamps and electrical equipment) and they would be shocked thinking CR was the be all/end all.
Anyhow take anything CR rates and their testing as garbage!
 

                           
























































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