@Sean K. ,
I stand by my original statement, only that I made the mistake of not knowing who Frederick Douglass was. Your mistake was trying to use a 170 year old statement, taken from an Abolitionist, and using it to justify skewed theory, applied to the modern judicial system.
Have the guts to really say what you feel, in your own words, coming from your own ideas. If you want anarchy, just say so. If you want to smoke your pot, and do drugs, without being hassled by police, have the guts to say so. If you feel other countries are doing policing better than the USA, please, let me know which ones.
I would not knowingly call you an Idiot, just ignorant of the reality involving policing, and incarceration.
Either reading comprehension isn't in your wheelhouse or you're being intentionally obtuse.I'd argue that it's actually the best system out there...
Yes, by all means....drape that statist commentary in the flag, simply b/c we don't agree on a topic. That'll make it all better. I find that most people who have such adoration have no idea what the founders even wrote or why they wrote it and usually don't actually support the premises upon which the country was founded in the first place.I think we can all agree that Sean k. Needs to quit being an asshat.
I couldn’t possibly care any less about revenue or my role as a cog in the government machinery beyond maintaining peace, serving my community, and the criminal justice process. I love my job. I respect the privledge of being able to serve in this capacity. I take what I do seriously as it can have very serious consequences for myself as well as some that I come into contact with. That being said, it is a ton of fun. I don’t bombard myself with the politics that you speak of. I’ve spent many years beside you on forums. This isn’t a personal jab. While I can’t speak for others, most that I know in this line of work have the same stance as I.Considering the revenue generated for most municipalities by their police forces, not to mention the history of police forces in the United States, and the multi-jurisdictional collaboration between various LE entities, it's hard to believe any officer wouldn't see himself as part of the machinery of local/state or even federal government, but then again, history and a deep, meaningful understanding of civics, isn't an American strong suit.
I was never deluded enough to believe you'd change your signature (or more importantly your view) b/c of a single discussion on an internet forum (as I mentioned earlier). You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
SeanK-
I admittedly don't know you well enough , but suspect in the real world streets you would be in for a rude awakening. Its easy to judge from a safe perch in a good neighborhood with little stake in the game. Many of your negative remarks and assumptions about police are so off base, and in my experience you will be the first one to call the police when needed. The irony..Yes I am making some assumptions. I have, however ,enjoyed your contributions regarding Jeeps on this forum. That said perhaps the following will give you some perspective on law enforcement Officers:
Those who fight monsters inevitably change. Because of all that they see and do, they lose their innocence and a piece of their humanity with it. If they want to survive, they begin to adopt some of the same characteristics as the monsters they fight. It is necessary. They become capable of rage, and extreme violence.
There is a fundamental difference, however. They keep those monster tendencies locked away in a cage, deep inside. That monster is only allowed out to protect others, to accomplish the mission, to get the job done - not for the perverse pleasure that the monsters feel when they harm others. In fact, those monster tendencies cause damage...GUILT, ISOLATION, DEPRESSION, PTSD.
There is a cost for visiting violence on others when you are not a monster. Those who do so know one thing - the cost inflicted upon society as a whole is far greater without those who fight monsters. That is why they are willing to make that horrible sacrifice so that others may live peaceably.
Before you judge one of us, remember this...
We witness things that humans aren't meant to see, and we see them repeatedly. We perform the duties that you feel are beneath you. We solve your problems - often by visiting violence upon others. We run towards the things that you run away from. We go out to fight what you fear. We stand between you and the monsters that want to damage you. You want to pretend that they don't exist, but we know better. We do the things that the vast majority are too soft, too weak, too cowardly to do.
Your life is more peaceful, because of us.
The current political climate in this country holds that there is nothing worth fighting for. Submission is the popular mantra. Warriors are decried, denigrated, and cast as morally inferior. We know how childish, how asinine, and how cowardly that mindset is.
We know this - there ARE things worth fighting, and dying for. We know that not every problem can be solved through rational discourse - that some problems can only be solved through the application of force and violence. And, while we do prefer the former, we are perfectly capable of the latter.
We believe that fighting what others fear is honorable, noble, and just - and we are willing to pay the price for that deeply held belief. Why? For us, it isn't a choice...
It is what we are. We are simply built that way.
~ Author Unknown”
And I'm not saying most officers think of themselves that way either....as I said, most don't realize the role they play.I couldn’t possibly care any less about revenue or my role as a cog in the government machinery beyond maintaining peace, serving my community, and the criminal justice process. I love my job. I respect the privledge of being able to serve in this capacity. I take what I do seriously as it can have very serious consequences for myself as well as some that I come into contact with. That being said, it is a ton of fun. I don’t bombard myself with the politics that you speak of. I’ve spent many years beside you on forums. This isn’t a personal jab. While I can’t speak for others, most that I know in this line of work have the same stance as I.
I'm not sure I've said anything that is overtly "negative" about police. I've made plenty of comments about the problems with our justice system.SeanK-
I admittedly don't know you well enough , but suspect in the real world streets you would be in for a rude awakening. Its easy to judge from a safe perch in a good neighborhood with little stake in the game. Many of your negative remarks and assumptions about police are so off base, and in my experience you will be the first one to call the police when needed. The irony..Yes I am making some assumptions. I have, however ,enjoyed your contributions regarding Jeeps on this forum. That said perhaps the following will give you some perspective on law enforcement Officers:
Those who fight monsters inevitably change. Because of all that they see and do, they lose their innocence and a piece of their humanity with it. If they want to survive, they begin to adopt some of the same characteristics as the monsters they fight. It is necessary. They become capable of rage, and extreme violence.
There is a fundamental difference, however. They keep those monster tendencies locked away in a cage, deep inside. That monster is only allowed out to protect others, to accomplish the mission, to get the job done - not for the perverse pleasure that the monsters feel when they harm others. In fact, those monster tendencies cause damage...GUILT, ISOLATION, DEPRESSION, PTSD.
There is a cost for visiting violence on others when you are not a monster. Those who do so know one thing - the cost inflicted upon society as a whole is far greater without those who fight monsters. That is why they are willing to make that horrible sacrifice so that others may live peaceably.
Before you judge one of us, remember this...
We witness things that humans aren't meant to see, and we see them repeatedly. We perform the duties that you feel are beneath you. We solve your problems - often by visiting violence upon others. We run towards the things that you run away from. We go out to fight what you fear. We stand between you and the monsters that want to damage you. You want to pretend that they don't exist, but we know better. We do the things that the vast majority are too soft, too weak, too cowardly to do.
Your life is more peaceful, because of us.
The current political climate in this country holds that there is nothing worth fighting for. Submission is the popular mantra. Warriors are decried, denigrated, and cast as morally inferior. We know how childish, how asinine, and how cowardly that mindset is.
We know this - there ARE things worth fighting, and dying for. We know that not every problem can be solved through rational discourse - that some problems can only be solved through the application of force and violence. And, while we do prefer the former, we are perfectly capable of the latter.
We believe that fighting what others fear is honorable, noble, and just - and we are willing to pay the price for that deeply held belief. Why? For us, it isn't a choice...
It is what we are. We are simply built that way.
~ Author Unknown”
I (think I) appreciate where you are coming from.You have mixed feelings about due process? So-called "Red Flag" laws are unConstitutional by their very nature.
So-called "red flag" laws are being written to give an illusion of "due process" b/c a mere call by a relative (depending on state and legislative proposal) is taken and discussed with a Judge before issuing the order to seize property. However, the concept of taking one's property FIRST and then giving "due process" is turning centuries of common law and rule of law on its ear going all the way back to Magna Carta in 1215 under King John of England, which was later incorporated into the US Constitution. This literally is an attempt to eviscerate the 2nd, 4th, 5th and 14th Amendments.I (think I) appreciate where you are coming from.
Let me state what I think is your opinion--do correct me if I am wrong because then the rest of my argument would be flawed.
Trying to approach this from law and not opinion by appreciating that we all have biases:
You know red-flag laws to be unconstitutional because they can cause a citizen to be separated from their firearms, even if only temporarily, without due process? And unlike, say, a restraining order, signed by a judge, red flag actions can often be brought by a school teacher, police officer, etc.
But they do need to be approved by a State judge. I agree that they open up the opportunity for abuse and broader means of taking away guns from the citizen--even again if only temporarily--but some think they reduce chances of things like school shootings.
As for me---I have no idea if these laws will be effective, and I'm not sure anyone will know, as the nut case that's forced to part with his weapons, that then can't as easily, say, shoot up a school is hard to track. And is making people part with guns, especially the wrongfully targeted, an acceptable cost, or is arming more people, say, a better answer?
I'll leave it for the legal scholars to challenge these law's constitutionality in court, the armchair warriors to debate better solutions, and respect your opinions.
LOL...if you'll remember...I predicted all of this when you started asking me to elaborate.Though that all seems to be the general consensus. The last few pages are so far off track it's hard to tell how we got here.