Jeep owner’s intelligence

RussJeep1

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Well heck, as the OP I really thought I was complementing Jeep owners. I did not mean to get into any financial discussions. I've read here where members solder diodes and resisters into wiring harnesses they hand made. Come up with all kinds of cool mods to fix issues. Troubleshoot and fix complex mechanical and electrical problems...…. All in all, I think Jeep owners are resourceful and mechanical geniuses..
I get this. Many a thread I've started has taken a turn or two off from what I hoped. I'm sorry for that. But intelligence's (the topic) child is wisdom and pretty much useless (intelligence that is) when we don't put it to making good decisions.

That we are overleveraged as a society, that many people are buying/financing/leasing JL's (vehicles) they really can't responsibly afford, and further blinging them "to the nines," quite literally mortgages their future with a Moody's rated loan of near junk bond status.

Buying a JL you can't afford, and blinging it, sadly, IS a JL topic. I wish it weren't.

Perhaps Wall St will bundle all this crappy debt into a security, and package it as something greater in value the its constituent loans (it won't be). It's not like they didn't try it a decade ago.





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plex

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I get this. Many a thread I've started has taken a turn or two off from what I hoped. I'm sorry for that. But intelligence's (the topic) child is wisdom and pretty much useless (intelligence that is) when we don't put it to making good decisions.

That we are overleveraged as a society, that many people are buying/financing/leasing JL's (vehicles) they really can't responsibly afford, and further blinging them "to the nines," quite literally mortgages their future with a Moody's rated loan of near junk bond status.

Buying a JL you can't afford, and blinging it, sadly, IS a JL topic. I wish it weren't.

Perhaps Wall St will bundle all this crappy debt into a security, and package it as something greater in value the its constituent loans (it won't be). It's not like they didn't try it a decade ago.
Well the spirit of US is spending money, right? We are bout to build a fucking wall, if not we are going to fight a war somewhere, who cares about saving money or balance budget, we can always borrow money right, Japan? China? Someone will lend us.
 

wvgasguy

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I’m the one who posted the consumer auto debt chart, and it was simply to get people thinking about making intelligent wise choices in life (Jeep purchase, or otherwise), and what better way to do that than to slap a graphic up that clearly shows the danger consumers are facing (many of them unknowingly) when the recession finally shows up.

I wouldn’t wish it on any of us, but my intent was to prevent Rubicons being whisked off in the dark of night when the repo man is sent by the bank to take back what is no longer being paid for- even if it is only 1 Rubicon, then it was worth contemplating, in my view.

Why do y’all think the stock market is freaking out? It’s because higher interest rates make it harder for consumers and corporations to service their debt. It’s not complicated.

Oh... and one other thing. If you’re driving a brand spankin’ new Wrangler, but you’re leaving you kid(s) to pay for their own college, then you’re an ass****. Sorry... by you are. Get control of yourself.
When I was young and starting out many doctors and successful people drove Buicks. Cadillac and more expensive cars were for the truly wealthy. Now days people drive what they can afford to make payment on, not necessarily what is appropriate for their income. 8 year loans makes about anything available to them. Too many people indeed live over their head. I feel fortunate. I had a good job and have a good retirement. I saved money.

I have no desire to see my kids in deep debt so I paid their way through college. Today's world is different. I paid more in Federal taxes than what my kids made each year. I've worked my way up to the Rubicon I'm expecting soon. I'm old and stupid though and have maybe a little more money than some but if I had ever looked at a Jeep with a $60,000 sticker a few years ago I would have laughed and walked off. Well, here I am doing something silly. But, I also have a TRD Pro 4Runner and plan to give these to my grandkids in a few years. I figure I'll spoil myself and drive a few toys like I always wanted and then after they have depreciated some I'll have a vehicle in the price range I would want to give to a 16 year old.

I helped my kids with downpayments on houses and nice cars. They pay their own bills but I have no desire to die and leave my kids with a pot of money while I live and watch them struggle. Yes, it's a balancing act. They have to be able to stand alone and make good decisions, but I never wanted to live several levels above my kids on an economic scale.
 
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For the record, peoples actually are buying new JLs for a significant amount under invoice, driving them for a few months/up to a year, and selling them for a profit. Not that I think that's a truly sound investment, but crazy that these hold that kind of value.
 

wvgasguy

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Well the spirit of US is spending money, right? We are bout to build a fucking wall, if not we are going to fight a war somewhere, who cares about saving money or balance budget, we can always borrow money right, Japan? China? Someone will lend us.
Eventually, the time comes, as it has already, where others won't lend us what we need. So we simply use the Federal Reserve to buy back treasuries. Sort of like paying off your credit card with a credit card.
 

RussJeep1

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If you’re driving a brand spankin’ new Wrangler, but you’re leaving you kid(s) to pay for their own college, then you’re an ass****.
I respect why you say this. My version would read, "then I hope you feel guilty."

But this not to say that Winchell @Shots , who paved his own way, and who believes that it builds character for his kids to act in kind, and whose main principle isn't that parents shouldn't pay for college, but rather that it should be more their choice, makes anything but excellent points, IMHO, even if my life experiences have shaped me differently.

I'll bet his kids will be less apt to spend excessively on bling they really can't afford.
 

AZDustMuncher

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Not to spilt hairs but I might say lucky too. The point is it's foolish to finance the rig to put the money towards a single firm, unless you have insider information about: in which case then said actions (at least in the stock market) are illegal. I think we can agree that such rare anecdotes aren't a battle cry to finance the Jeep and fund the sole company given all the outfits promised to be the next Microsoft that turned out not to be.

Monday morning quarterbacking on investment decisions of days gone by: even I can do that.

Whatever, just being argumentative. I don't care to even read where this thread has gone I just know there are ways to do thing and then there are other ways to do things. Anyone who thinks there way is the only smart way is a idiot!
 

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For the record, peoples actually are buying new JLs for a significant amount under invoice, driving them for a few months/up to a year, and selling them for a profit. Not that I think that's a truly sound investment, but crazy that these hold that kind of value.
With over 9% of JL sales ending up in fleet (up from 3.6% w/JL) the "rock solid" residuals of the Wrangler are quickly going to become a thing of the past.
 

RussJeep1

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Well the spirit of US is spending money, right?
Generations past saved more. The issue is not spending, which itself has no good or bad value. The issue is whether the spending is an investment, and its rate of return, or is it on things sure to depreciate.

We are bout to build a fucking wall,
Absolutely politics aside on the good or bad aspects of this plan, there simply aren't the votes in Congress at this time to effect this.

if not we are going to fight a war somewhere, who cares about saving money or balance budget, we can always borrow money right, Japan? China?
When our country borrows and can't pay its debt, we can a) take out more debt, b) and print more money.

The first choice is like trying to pay off a credit card with another, and yet another. The math doesn't work. Eventually we can't make the minimum payments, default, and the lending country can confiscate our assets. You have heard of the idea that at this rate the Chinese government will effectively own the US? Further still, countries will eventually stop throwing good money after bad if those countries lended to don't make good.

Printing money: skyrocketing inflation, worthless currency, inability to trade, chaos.

Yeah, we could say, "collect you payment country X, our guns are bigger than yours." But then nobody will trade with us in both solidarity with the owed country and their own lending fears.

Notions of "well the country's doing it," or "everyone's borrowing to pay for their rig," aren't in and of themselves licenses for us to act in kind. This doesn't mean car loans don't have their place even for those who aren't using the money to get higher rates of return than that of their loan.

It does though mean, given countless rigs cheaper than the Wrangler, that maybe the Wrangler isn't for some people.

I love my rig, I have little complaints about it.
 

Wanderingwheelz

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Here’s the thing.. Most of us are doing things w/o any real regard for knowing, for sure, whether or not our financial decisions are sound or deeply flawed. Or, even worse, not caring one way or another. Yes, most people just don’t care- they give more though about the color of their Wrangler than they do whether or not they really should be buying it in the first place.

Here’s something that most of us who consider ourselves to be above average (the entire origin of this thread is that Wrangler owners seem to be above average in intelligence, after all) really have no idea about. That is, in order to be considered above average in our current financial situation, this chart will answer the question of whether we are or are not. In other words, if you’re craving a $50,000+ vehicle (approximately 2x the average cost of a new vehicle), is it something that a typical person in your current financial situation ought to be buying.

So here it is. Are you above average? Just choose your age cohort and see what your tax deferred accounts plus taxable investment accounts and your approximate home equity add up to. Then back out all of your debts like car loans. This chart is pretty fresh, but it doesn’t take into consideration any of the stock market sell off we’ve experienced recently. (So maybe reduce the figures by @ 5-10%?)

337FA550-EF5F-4C2A-B5C9-10A3A6BD092F.jpeg
 

Dogboyslim

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Yep! I have a sixth-grade ed-u-ca-tion. First in my family!
I said this to someone recently and they stared back blankly. I must be getting old, because more and more, people are not noting my references to sayings like this.
 

wvgasguy

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With over 9% of JL sales ending up in fleet (up from 3.6% w/JL) the "rock solid" residuals of the Wrangler are quickly going to become a thing of the past.
I think too that now that they are in the $50K to $60K levels they will drop like everything else, at least fo the first $15K or so. A sport is the way to go for value, but then again not everyone wants a basic Jeep. Bottom line, my Jeep will do better than my Suburban but worse than my TRD Pro, but it doesn't matter to me. Just don't go believing these $55K Jeeps will be selling for $45K in 3 years
 

wvgasguy

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Here’s the thing.. Most of us are doing things w/o any real regard for knowing, for sure, whether or not our financial decisions are sound or deeply flawed. Or, even worse, not caring one way or another. Yes, most people just don’t care- they give more though about the color of their Wrangler than they do whether or not they really should be buying it in the first place.

Here’s something that most of us who consider ourselves to be above average (the entire origin of this thread is that Wrangler owners seem to be above average in intelligence, after all) really have no idea about. That is, in order to be considered above average in our current financial situation, this chart will answer the question of whether we are or are not. In other words, if you’re craving a $50,000+ vehicle (approximately 2x the average cost of a new vehicle), is it something that a typical person in your current financial situation ought to be buying.

So here it is. Are you above average? Just choose your age cohort and see what your tax deferred accounts plus taxable investment accounts and your approximate home equity add up to. Then back out all of your debts like car loans. This chart is pretty fresh, but it doesn’t take into consideration any of the stock market sell off we’ve experienced recently. (So maybe reduce the figures by @ 5-10%?)

337FA550-EF5F-4C2A-B5C9-10A3A6BD092F.jpeg
LOL, (and not directing that at you) I'd say that's a little more than the above average person, more like the 0.01%. When they tell us that the average 65 year old hasn't saved a dime for retirement these days then needing about $3,000,000 net worth to be above average leaves a lot of space for several more levels. Say "Almost average but a little better off, A little bit above average, better than average, average +++ and then maybe "above average". Of course the chart also doesn't take into consideration where you live. I live in an area where $250,000 buys you a very nice house and a $75,000 salary is a decent living. I have friends in California living in cottages worth a whole lot of money (for now) but I doubt you could live there without making over $150k a year
 

Wanderingwheelz

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LOL, I'd say that's a little more than the above average person, more like the 0.01%. When they tell us that the average 65 year old hasn't saved a dime for retirement these days then needing about $3,000,000 net worth to be above average leaves a lot of space for several more levels. Say "Almost average but a little better off, A little bit above average, better than average, average +++ and then maybe "above average".
Not really! At least I don’t think so... Take me for example. I’m just a regular 47 year old guy that you can walk past on the street at any given time and I can assure you that you wouldn’t mistake me for Tom Brady (I’m far better looking), but I’m sitting right at the 65 year old figure. My wife and I are just two regular people who invested our money since 22-23 years old, and were careful not to spend our earnings wastefully.

*Average is far different than the mean, though. An average number will be far higher in this case because billionaires skew the average net worth higher.
 

tyresmoker

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Not really! At least I don’t think so... Take me for example. I’m just a regular 47 year old guy that you can walk past on the street at any given time and I can assure you that you wouldn’t mistake me for Tom Brady (I’m far better looking), but I’m sitting right at the 65 year old figure. My wife and I are just two regular people who invested our money since 22-23 years old, and were careful not to spend our earnings wastefully.

*Average is far different than the mean, though. An average number will be far higher in this case because billionaires skew the average net worth higher.
No offense bro, but if you are sitting at the "65 level" at 47, it might be time to shoot the lock off your wallet. You think you will be physically and mentally stronger at 65 than you are today, gimme some of what you are smoking. I always shake my head at the clowns our age that pass on lifes little indulgences because they are saving for their golden years...Like they are guaranteed them or something.
 

DaltonGang

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Well the spirit of US is spending money, right? We are bout to build a fucking wall, if not we are going to fight a war somewhere, who cares about saving money or balance budget, we can always borrow money right, Japan? China? Someone will lend us.
Take a deep breath, and step away from the caffeine. :angry:
BTW, i like walls, big big big ones. They keep undesirables out. :like:
 

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