Jalopnik says Diariomotor says Rubicon Loses to Prado and G-Class

[Rogues Gambit]

"It's not the car you drive, but the driver driving the car that's doing the driving"

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[Thill444]

Yeah, and then struggle on bigger obstacles. It's all a trade off....but Jeep just did another poor job with break over on the JL.

The advantage of longer wheelbase is a real thing. There's a reason why Toyotas were spanking 2 door Jeeps on the more extreme trails until the 4 doors came out (and still needed a decent lift) and why a custom stretch was a necessity for the 2 doors.

In the video, he could have taken a slightly different line or used just touch of momentum (that he DID use in the Gwagen) in the Jeep and he would have made it up. I'd chalk that one up to driver error more than anything....but I freely admit the breakover and frame height on the Rubicon is pretty abysmal for an allegedly offroad package.

Wouldn't a lift and larger tires on a Rubicon mitigate this? I am guessing most serious off road enthusiasts would install lifts and bigger tires almost out of the gate.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

I'll take a manual 2dr over the G-Wagen and Land Crusher

Hell, even a 4dr, something other than those two, use the savings for mods

 

[DaveNH]

I’m glad the writer of the article “did not get it”!!!!!! If everyone got it, just imagine what would happen...... EVERYONE would have a Wrangler. He probably loved the AMC Pacer!!!!!

The author, David Tracy, is a Jeep guy. He actually worked at Jeep before Jalopnik. But, yes, he does happen to love the AMC Eagle (coupe).

 

[JeepJLBase]

There is no doubt that I would certainly take the LC over any of them. It would get me where I needed and be extremely reliable doing it.
I don't think anyone needed to report that.

 

[norbert]

Its believable that the JL is the worst driving car he's driven in 20 years. The steering is beyond terrible and the ride feels like its was done by some backyard mod-er.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

Its believable that the JL is the worst driving car he's driven in 20 years. The steering is beyond terrible and the ride feels like its was done by some backyard mod-er.

I doubt it, 20 years is plenty of time for him to find some shitbox on wheels

 

[AnnDee4444]

For a light duty/light truck vehicle touted as the most capable *commonly available* offroad vehicle, the break over and frame height are pretty pathetic. On stock height tires, it's obviously far worse.

I always wondered why portal axles are not more popular

 

[TOTL Innovations]

I always wondered why portal axles are not more popular

Cost, weight and requires more arm separation which can be a clearance issue.

 

[Thill444]

For reference:

I'm running 37's and no lift. Yes, a lift would mitigate the issue which is why I made the caveat that, "(and still needed a decent lift)".

The problem is even on true 37s...the frame height and break over are still ridiculously low and there's yet another balancing act between low CoG and clearing bigger tires.

On those 37's I am at just under 16" at the frame rail at STREET pressure. For a light duty/light truck vehicle touted as the most capable *commonly available* offroad vehicle, the break over and frame height are pretty pathetic. On stock height tires, it's obviously far worse.

No, the Jeep engineers managed to drop the ball yet again on the way the drivetrain is laid out in relation to the body. Other manufacturers seem to get this basic concept that Jeep just keeps overlooking.

First off beautiful looking Jeep. Second thank you for the informative reply. I am starting to understand the point much better now. I only mention this because I rented a JL Rubicon that had the Mopar 2" lift and 37" tires and I had zero issues with even some of the moderate trains in Moab. I was blown away by what the Jeep could do (yes I am a novice).

 

[Thill444]

Its believable that the JL is the worst driving car he's driven in 20 years. The steering is beyond terrible and the ride feels like its was done by some backyard mod-er.

I believe that comment was from some random person on Jalopnik. So first, anyone can say whatever they want on the Internet, it doesn't make it true. Second, there have been a bunch of reports of really sloppy steering JL's and it's possible this person got a bad one.

This is my first Jeep and in the last 4 years I have owned (or still own):
C7 Corvette Z51
Ford Focus RS
ND Miata (with a racing suspension, exhaust, tune, etc)

The JL was supposed to be more for my wife than me but I constantly find myself driving it. It is not even close to the worst driving car I have ever driven but it is clearly a different experience than most cars.

I would also say if you don't take the doors and roof off sometimes you are missing out on the experience. Try doing that in a Land Cruiser or Mercedes..

 

[AnnDee4444]

B/c unless you move them out in front of the engine, you necessitate at least a 4" addition CoG change.

And...in this case, portals wouldn't do anything for the poor breakover angle on the JL anyway.

I don't follow. Other than moving the weight of the axles up, wouldn't the COG change be exactly like a 4" lift? With portals installed vertically, wouldn't the break-over angle be increased exactly like a 4" lift?

Then there's driveability....while not nearly as bad as pinion brakes on 2.5 and 5 tons...they still are quirky and suspension geometry is a little wonky since you're attaching above theoretical axle CL.

Admittedly, I've never driven anything with a pinion brake, and my only experience with portal axles is on swing-axle VWs. With the exception of the added sprung mass, I would expect the suspension ride to be unchanged though. I think that anti-squat would probably be the biggest change, but even that could be tuned with a link mount drop bracket.

 

[S2k Chris]

How much of the issue was the guy driving suuuuuuper slow? It seemed like the pattern was “put Toyota in Crawl Control, Toyota crawls up at glacial pace, try to replicate that pace with Jeep.” Give it a bump, back it up and try a different line, whatever. Seemed like he doomed the Jeep to fail by continually stopping or barely feathering the throttle.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

 

[chcg12]

Yeah, and then struggle on bigger obstacles. It's all a trade off....but Jeep just did another poor job with break over on the JL.

The advantage of longer wheelbase is a real thing. There's a reason why Toyotas were spanking 2 door Jeeps on the more extreme trails until the 4 doors came out (and still needed a decent lift) and why a custom stretch was a necessity for the 2 doors.

In the video, he could have taken a slightly different line or used just touch of momentum (that he DID use in the Gwagen) in the Jeep and he would have made it up. I'd chalk that one up to driver error more than anything....but I freely admit the breakover and frame height on the Rubicon is pretty abysmal for an allegedly offroad package.

What type of trails/obstacles were the toyotas besting the 2drs in?..extreme climbs etc? Thanks Sean

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