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VKSheridan

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Thank you Dyolfknip74, I enjoyed the conversation as well!
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chevymitchell

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While it’s plausible microscoptic metal particles can migrate into openings in the sensor and short components, that is merely speculation used to affirm a preconceived failure mode. Arc surging a capacitor can create the same result.

Again, I don’t care if you guys want to pot everything on your ride, I’m just saying there is more than one way to fail a sensor and being oil soaked is not usually the primary failure mode.
Arc surge is not the cause for our particular issue on these axles and oil getting into the sensor is the primary failure mode. Of course, there's more than one way the sensor could fail. I could hit it with a hammer. It's easy not to speculate when every reported sensor that's failed is due to oil contamination. Those sensors without oil have not failed yet. This could easily be proven if I could get my hands on a couple of good sensors no one is using.

Are you going to pot yours?
 

mgroeger

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I’ve read the posts and yes, a dude used RTV. I can see how one might credit potting as the cure if they‘ve had no incidents after gluing a perfectly good board in place but is that the true cure or a miscredit? Not too sure.

There are several stories of “I potted it too late” which assumes the PCB components failed and not how they’re attached to the PCB. Once you pot it, baking the board becomes that much less likely to fix it.

I’m not trying to convince anyone they’re wrong, I’m just saying I’ve seen far more PCB’s fail from thermal/vibration micro-fractures then from being exposed to oil and other root causes could exist. If you want to resin your sensors, go for it, hope you get lucky.
We've been dealing with this issue on a different thread(s) for 3 years now and it is definitely oil in the sensor and not bad solder joints. People have documented extensively what they are seeing and @chevymitchell came up with a potting thread using potting compound, not rtv.
Regardless of how the oil is getting in there (mine came in from a separated seal others say through the wire connector) many people have confirmed there is oil in the sensor. To date I'm the only one who was lucky enough to actually pop the lid off, drain the oil, clean it out and re-seal it to become a working sensor. Others have gone the potting route before oil has entered the sensor and have had good results.
 

DanW

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I'll have to check in with my friend at Stellantis to see if he's heard back from the powertrain group on a solution to this, or not. I told him our hope is to offer new sensors at the parts counter to avoid junking the whole axle and to have an easy/cheap fix after the warranty is up.

I wonder, though, if Stellantis' solution will be new sensors with better QC in production units just to fix the warranty cost side of it, leaving those out of warranty out of luck.

I fear there's not enough failures to make a business case for the aftermarket to supply these. That would be another solution I'd love to see.
 

mgroeger

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I'll have to check in with my friend at Stalin to see if he's heard back from the powertrain group on a solution to this, or not. I told him our hope is to offer new sensors at the parts counter to avoid junking the whole axle and to have an easy/cheap fix after the warranty is up.

I wonder, though, if Stalin's solution will be new sensors with better QC in production units just to fix the warranty cost side of it, leaving those out of warranty out of luck.

I fear there's not enough failures to make a business case for the aftermarket to supply these. That would be another solution I'd love to see.
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VKSheridan

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Arc surge is not the cause for our particular issue on these axles and oil getting into the sensor is the primary failure mode. Of course, there's more than one way the sensor could fail. I could hit it with a hammer. It's easy not to speculate when every reported sensor that's failed is due to oil contamination. Those sensors without oil have not failed yet. This could easily be proven if I could get my hands on a couple of good sensors no one is using.

Are you going to pot yours?
I love the conversation but please - It is a tad disingenuous to say EVERY reported sensor failure has been diagnosed, let alone diagnosed as oil ingression on the PCB. Some guys saw the light come on, took it to the dealer and got the axle replaced. Sometimes twice. Inference to any given root cause is speculative at best.

None the matter, we’ve beat the flies off this dead pony.

I’m hoping to maybe snag a pair of sensors from a wrecked Jeep at the Pick a Part and pot them for replacement upon failure. I figure if I can get a pair of non-failed units, confirm they can be permanently sealed with all bases covered, they should last until a lightning strike, gear blow out or I throw them away. Heck, maybe (just maybe) Dana will wise up and find a different source of supply……

Have a great Thanksgiving!
 

Dyolfknip74

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I love the conversation but please - It is a tad disingenuous to say EVERY reported sensor failure has been diagnosed, let alone diagnosed as oil ingression on the PCB. Some guys saw the light come on, took it to the dealer and got the axle replaced. Sometimes twice. Inference to any given root cause is speculative at best.

None the matter, we’ve beat the flies off this dead pony.

I’m hoping to maybe snag a pair of sensors from a wrecked Jeep at the Pick a Part and pot them for replacement upon failure. I figure if I can get a pair of non-failed units, confirm they can be permanently sealed with all bases covered, they should last until a lightning strike, gear blow out or I throw them away. Heck, maybe (just maybe) Dana will wise up and find a different source of supply……

Have a great Thanksgiving!
I think we may be hard pressed to get sensors like that. I cant see any junk dealer letting someone cannibalize a D44 axle just for the sensor when they can sell the complete unit and make a lot more money.
In saying that, if you do find one, do it and RUN. lol
 

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I think we may be hard pressed to get sensors like that. I cant see any junk dealer letting someone cannibalize a D44 axle just for the sensor when they can sell the complete unit and make a lot more money.
In saying that, if you do find one, do it and RUN. lol
Would the same sensor be in the Bronco or something else? That’s the same pumpkin just no tubes, right?
 

Dyolfknip74

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Would the same sensor be in the Bronco or something else? That’s the same pumpkin just no tubes, right?
Not sure of what other Dana applications may be using. It's a new axle for the JL, the JK used a mechanical switch if I remember correctly.

Who makes the Bronco axle? Pretty sure it isn't Dana. From a spec sheet I found:

"Front: Independent H.O.S.S. (High-Performance, Off-Road, Stability, Suspension) System with twin alloy A-arms and coil-over springs for optimum off-road stability and control with available H.O.S.S. System with Bilstein® Position Sensitive Dampers. Rear: Solid five-link rear axle H.O.S.S. (High-Performance, Off-Road, Stability, Suspension) System with coil-over springs for optimum off-road capability and durability with available H.O.S.S. System with Bilstein Position Sensitive Dampers."
 

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GATORB8

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Not sure of what other Dana applications may be using. It's a new axle for the JL, the JK used a mechanical switch if I remember correctly.

Who makes the Bronco axle? Pretty sure it isn't Dana. From a spec sheet I found:

"Front: Independent H.O.S.S. (High-Performance, Off-Road, Stability, Suspension) System with twin alloy A-arms and coil-over springs for optimum off-road stability and control with available H.O.S.S. System with Bilstein® Position Sensitive Dampers. Rear: Solid five-link rear axle H.O.S.S. (High-Performance, Off-Road, Stability, Suspension) System with coil-over springs for optimum off-road capability and durability with available H.O.S.S. System with Bilstein Position Sensitive Dampers."
It’s a Dana in the new Bronco, advantek, not sure which ones have the 44. I think FDU is Front Diff Unit (pumpkin)
Jeep Wrangler JL It’s true: the drain plug has been removed from the front diff on Rubicon 1637849679963
 

wolf

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Before you seal it for life by potting it, there’s a chance the issue is not so much the conductance of an oil soaked PCB but possibly thermal/vibration micofractures at the soldering points (bad Chinese soak solder process).

LG TV’s are famous for their crappy motherboards dropping HDMI inputs. We’ve set the toaster oven to 450 F and baked the board to bring it back to life. Might need to do the same with the locker HET sensor but potting it will all but guarantee taking that option off the table.
I like the no drain plug. You can use the fluid evacuator to get it out. That way you don't break the cover seal. That's how I would change it if I didn't have the drain plug.
I think you're misunderstanding what's happening when the sensors fail. It's not cold/cracked joints.

They're failing because the gear oil has metal flake in it which is shorting out 1 of the 3 capacitors on the board. The potting material is just keeping the gear oil from getting to the PCB.

Nothing more than that.
Has anyone done this? Have a friend in Colorado who has a business and has about 15 vehicles (trucks) does heavy maintenance all over with a lot of driving. He told me when discussing this thread that for almost 40 years he changed his differential fluid by draining about 30 percent of the fluid and adding kerosene. Then drive for a while until good and warm. Then drain immediately. Cleans everything out. These are heavy duty gas and diesel trucks 1/2 to 5 tons. Job site vehicles. He does this every time he changes oil. These differentials are upwards of 8000 dollars. He has never had any problems of any kind and yes there are some (most) 4wh dr. With electrical cylinoids etc. He is still working and doing his own maintenance.
 

OllieChristopher

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I fear there's not enough failures to make a business case for the aftermarket to supply these. That would be another solution I'd love to see.
Actually there is. The aftermarket jumped on this a long time ago. Personally I would only go this route after your warranty runs out.

This part completely bypasses the failure point and has the lockers working seamlessly. Simply purchase aftermarket E-Locker or Air Locker of your choice. A very cheap and reliable upgrade to the poorly OEM designed and unavailable locker sensor.

https://www.northridge4x4.com/part/...sJKkccHh6IXyk6Yslcgo2HmMuruJczzQaAoI5EALw_wcB
 

DanW

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Actually there is. The aftermarket jumped on this a long time ago. Personally I would only go this route after your warranty runs out.

This part completely bypasses the failure point and has the lockers working seamlessly. Simply purchase aftermarket E-Locker or Air Locker of your choice. A very cheap and reliable upgrade to the poorly OEM designed and unavailable locker sensor.

https://www.northridge4x4.com/part/...sJKkccHh6IXyk6Yslcgo2HmMuruJczzQaAoI5EALw_wcB
True! But that is a bandaid or workaround rather than a full repair. And I do have one of those in my rear storage compartment, just in case. I was really referring to an aftermarket replacement for the sensor itself, for a full and proper repair. But functionally and practically, I do think that cable will do the job.
 

mgroeger

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