Is this normal? Steering wandering all over the place. Brand new 2021 Rubicon 2 Door

[richk225]

The LCA's were delivered last week and not yet installed. I will keep you updated.

Took the Jeep to the dealer yesterday to see if they could diagnose/repair or at least create a record of the issue. The results below are what I excpected.

Official statement "Road tested vehicle and did not notice any abnormal steering issues at this time. No available TSB or RRT Software reflash updates available at this time"

Off the record statement before road test "We know about the steering issues up till 21 model year but have not see any 22's with issues.
After road test its "not that bad compared to others we have seen".
We can't reflash software because your" in service date" is not covered by the updates. There is no open recall or TSB, sorry there is nothing we can do. Check back with us in 3 months to see if an update is available or some other TSB.

Next step-Going to a Jeep Specialist in South Jersey (as soon as I can get appt) have them diagnose and install LCA's if warranted. This shop knew exactly what repairs were needed to get rid of the DW on my JK. I have not had DW issues with the JK in 5 years since they repaired it. I will let you know how it goes.

You can always try OK4WD in Sterartsville NJ. Awesome jeep builder and all off road specialist
They are going to be at the Jeep Invasion in Wildwood NJ in July along with a lot of suspension manufactures

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[Trailrated]

Hopefully I can ask my own steering question in this thread ......Just got 22' Willys 2door and immediately noticed some fairly bad steering, after I aired down to 36psi from 44psi it improved but still needs adjusting. What bothers me the most is the steering wheel slightly holds left and when I put the steering wheel "straight" the jeep veers to the right. Not a quick sudden veer, but after about 2 seconds I need to adjust to bring the jeep back to the center of the road before I'm off to shoulder or ditch. Is this a simple track bar adjustment? Doesn't seem like alignment to me, seems the steering wheel just needs to be centered? I understand the whole jeep "mannerisms" but my issue can't be normal.

 

[kilian73]

Hey all, just got my jeep and have about 700 miles on it. I noticed some wandering at highway speeds and wanted to know if the 68322798AA Mopar control arms would be the best bet for a JLUR XR package as well. I assume they put the same control arms in the XR as everything else. Does anyone know for sure?

 

[Roky]

Hey all, just got my jeep and have about 700 miles on it. I noticed some wandering at highway speeds and wanted to know if the 68322798AA Mopar control arms would be the best bet for a JLUR XR package as well. I assume they put the same control arms in the XR as everything else. Does anyone know for sure?

Measure center of bolt to center of bolt, if is 24” then they are same as the rest, and yes Mopar lift arms will help.

 

[richk225]

I would go with a set of adjustable upper control arms, does not push the axle forward.
that would allow you to easily get to whatever camber adjustment you need 6.5-7.00 according to EVO manufacturing and JKS, and AEV

 

[dpike]

The LCA's were delivered last week and not yet installed. I will keep you updated.

Took the Jeep to the dealer yesterday to see if they could diagnose/repair or at least create a record of the issue. The results below are what I excpected.

Official statement "Road tested vehicle and did not notice any abnormal steering issues at this time. No available TSB or RRT Software reflash updates available at this time"

Off the record statement before road test "We know about the steering issues up till 21 model year but have not see any 22's with issues.
After road test its "not that bad compared to others we have seen".
We can't reflash software because your" in service date" is not covered by the updates. There is no open recall or TSB, sorry there is nothing we can do. Check back with us in 3 months to see if an update is available or some other TSB.

Next step-Going to a Jeep Specialist in South Jersey (as soon as I can get appt) have them diagnose and install LCA's if warranted. This shop knew exactly what repairs were needed to get rid of the DW on my JK. I have not had DW issues with the JK in 5 years since they repaired it. I will let you know how it goes.

I have more play than I'd like too so I'm going to No Excuses in New Egypt next week and have them take a look

 

[roaniecowpony]

While I have a 4 dr, mine is one of the 2018 first year problem JLURs that had about all the issues. I spent the past few years reading this forum, starting with the very first night I owned it. It was in the alignment shop the next morning after buying it, because it steered so poorly. It was freaking scary, and I've driven other old 2 dr CJs my brother owned.

In these past few years, I've spent about $2k on parts to gain what I'll call steering that is now as it should be when purchased new. ...almost.

Trackbars
The number one offender was the trackbar on the 18 and 19 models. The bushings were too soft to keep the axle in position. This created a condition where a steering input pushed the axle slightly to the opposite side so the steering input initially does little/nothing, then the "spring" action of the compressed bushings in the trackbar seek to relax and the axle returns to the proper location, and steering is a delayed action, since the steering box is attached to the frame. Changing to a trackbar with stiffer bushings cures this. Jeep recognized this and came out with a trackbar that had stiffer bushings later.

Death Wobble
In all of the "saga" of the JL steering issues was death wobble (DW), where the front wheels would violently oscillate back and forth. This would shake the entire vehicle and scare most owners to death. The cause of DW is linked to many things and all those listed here could contribute to it.

Steering Boxes
The second big issue was the steering box on early models could and often did have too much slop and in most cases could not be adjusted completely out. Some owners complained of too much play and others experienced "lock up" in cold weather or possibly loss of power steering. Jeep recognized the steering box issue and made several production line assembly (letter changes: AB, AC, etc) changes, before coming to the conclusion that the aluminum steering box design should be abandoned and replaced with a cast iron/steel steering box (new numerical part number) that had better thermal stability and could be held to tighter tolerances and adjustments without binding in cold weather and still be tight in hot weather. They also made some changes to the software that controlled the electric/hydraulic pump.

Loose Torque on Steering/suspension components
Somewhere in all of these issues, members here were finding steering components did not have the requisite torque, whether improper from the factory or had loosened. These reports included tierod, draglink, trackbar and in one case I recall the balljoints. So, pretty much all possible combinations.

Balljoints
As months and years past, members started revealing that the factory balljoints were showing unexpected wear/looseness with often as low as ~20,000 miles (the earliest I can recall reading about) which contributed to steering wandering/looseness and death wobble (DW) issues, and/or a casualty of DW. It's probably the most overlooked component, especially on JLs that have relatively low miles. When I changed mine to Dynatracs, It took that last bit of shimmy (precursor to DW) out of my JLUR and tightened steering a tiny bit more.

Steering Dampers (a.k.a. steering stabilizers)
During the first and second years, owners that had various steering issues, particularly DW, were reporting success in "curing" their issues with aftermarket steering dampers/stabilizers. Jeep made a few revisions to them while they were learning how to cure these issues. I will say that these steering dampers do not have the ability to remove slop/play in a steering system and that a well setup tight steering/suspension can be driven without a steering damper and not have DW. However, a steering damper can add some margin of protection from DW in some cases. In other cases, it can simply kick the can down the road.

Caster
Caster values are a measurement of the angle of the pivot axis of the steering knuckle. This appears to be a very popular topic, more so among the 2 door owners. For good reason. The factory spec for caster on the JL (I believe, please correct me if I'm wrong) is 4.8 degrees. This is consistent with 99.99% (my exaggeration) of vehicles on the road. Jeep owners have long known that caster angles in the 6-7 degree range make a short coupled Jeep drive "nicer" on the highway. Basically, more caster slows the steering ratio, especially in the center area, making it feel more stable/planted. It also makes the steering have stronger return to center. My all stock 4 door measured within one tenth of a degree of the nominal factory 4.8 degree spec. Caster is "not adjustable" in the sense that a nut or bolt can be rotated to change it. On the JL, the upper and lower control arm length control the caster as well as where the axle yoke for the steering knuckle was welded to the axle tube. Why Jeep never adopted angles in this range is a mystery. Installing the Mopar lift Lower Control Arms (LCA) change the caster to somewhere in the 6-7 degree range when no lift is installed. Aftermarket adjustable LCAs will allow infinitely adjustable caster within a range. Keep in mind that the pinion gear/driveshaft yoke angle changes at the same time. Pinion angles affect driveshaft U-joint life and performance.

Camber
It's the characteristic of the top of the tire leaning in or out. Lets just say, it's not really adjustable either, but you can change it with specialized aftermarket bushings in the knuckle or by cutting and welding the knuckle yoke at a different angle. Jeep camber is set at a compromise angle that will give good tread wear and steering under normal conditions. But, it's good to know that the effect of the road slope (left or right) is called road camber and it has an effect on the contact of your tires, and that along with caster, the change of the road camber will steer your vehicle. Typical roads have some camber down to the right and require you to steer to the left slightly to maintain a straight path.

Toe-In/Toe-Out (a.k.a. alignment in a JL)
This is the angle of the two front wheels relative to each other, when as viewed from the top, when the steering is centered. It is the only truly "adjustable" alignment characteristic in a solid front axle vehicle like the Jeep, in the sense that no components need to be replaced to change the setting. It is adjusted by lengthening or shortening the tierod. It can be measured in angle (degrees, minutes, seconds) or in linear measurement (inches, fractions or decimals). Toe-In is the only practical setting. Toe-Out will result in some instability of the steering (wandering), increasingly so at highway speeds. The typical Jeep and other vehicle setting is about 1/8" toe-in at the front of the tire vs the back of the tire.

 

[zouch]

first, double-check that your tire pressures are correct; check them with a good gauge ((hand-held; not the one on the dash!), after they've been out of the sun and not driven for at least 2-3 hours.

if you still have a problem, check to make sure it's not just the slope on the road. most roads will slope from center to curb (left to right, in the USA) and J**ps will track downhill.

if you've verified that this isn't the case, try swapping tires right-left on one axle and test drive to see if you still have the same issue. if you do, repeat with the other axle and test drive again. if you still have a problem, you have now verified that the issue is not with a 'dominant' tire. if the 'pull' moves to the other side after swapping tires, you have a problem tire.
thing is, many tires do not pull exactly like all the rest of a set; you may find that you'll be adjusting the steering every time you do a tire rotation. (rotate all 5!)

adjust the drag link to center the steering wheel. it's one of the easiest adjustments you can make on the front end; takes a single wrench and about 3 minutes.
adjust one way, test drive, correct as necessary.

enjoy!

Hopefully I can ask my own steering question in this thread ......Just got 22' Willys 2door and immediately noticed some fairly bad steering, after I aired down to 36psi from 44psi it improved but still needs adjusting. What bothers me the most is the steering wheel slightly holds left and when I put the steering wheel "straight" the jeep veers to the right. Not a quick sudden veer, but after about 2 seconds I need to adjust to bring the jeep back to the center of the road before I'm off to shoulder or ditch. Is this a simple track bar adjustment? Doesn't seem like alignment to me, seems the steering wheel just needs to be centered? I understand the whole jeep "mannerisms" but my issue can't be normal.

 

[Old Dogger]

Part of what I believe is going on is, the JL has the new electronic assist steering, which had a different feel to it. As of 2021 deliveries, all of the steering updates have already been installed at the factory. So the only thing that remains to help eliminate the wander feeling is, different control arms, to add additional caster But to much caster can cause additional wear to steering components, plus change the driveline angle and cause vibrations. Adjustable control arms is a good way to experiment. 5.0 degrees of positive Caster, is a good number to shoot for. Some will go with even a higher number, but one doesn’t want to get in trouble with changing your drive line angle to much, to where it is causing a vibration.
As for veering to the right, some roads have a higher degree of road crown, so a slight veering is normal. But pulling hard to the right is not.

 

[blnewt]

Part of what I believe is going on is, the JL has the new electronic assist steering, which had a different feel to it. As of 2021 deliveries, all of the steering updates have already been installed at the factory. So the only thing that remains to help eliminate the wander feeling is, different control arms, to add additional camber. But to much camber, can cause additional wear to steering components, plus change the driveline angle and cause vibrations. Adjustable control arms is a good way to experiment. 5.0 degrees of positive Caster, is a good number to shoot for. Some will go with even a higher number, but one doesn’t want to get in trouble with changing your drive line angle to much, to where it is causing a vibration.
As for veering to the right, some roads have a higher degree of road crown, so a slight veering is normal. But pulling hard to the right is not.

I know you were referring to caster, not camber, and yeah 5 degrees is good but at least IME 6 is the happy place before any pinion angle issues will come into play. Anything is better than teh 4 degrees that most Rubicons leave the factory with, that's for damn sure!

 

[Old Dogger]

I know you were referring to caster, not camber, and yeah 5 degrees is good but at least IME 6 is the happy place before any pinion angle issues will come into play. Anything is better than teh 4 degrees that most Rubicons leave the factory with, that's for damn sure!

It is really to bad, that the factory doesn’t understand this.

 

[jmccorm]

Had the 0.25" longer LCAs installed on a 2021 JLUR. Alignment was performed afterwards. I'm not noticing a lot of improvement in steering (or handling). But I am noticing a slight drift to the right that wasn't there before. They took another look at it and didn't find any problem.

Anything I might be missing here?

 

[Gripster]

I am surprised the 0.25" longer LCA did not make a huge difference for you (sure did for me). For your drift I wonder if the shop tightened the bolts without the vehicle weight on the suspension. The rubber bushings ideally are tightened at "neutral" position with weight of vehicle, this way the bushings are not twisting against things at normal driving vehicle height. I dont know if this twisting thing would be measured with alignment machine or not. Just my thoughts.

 

[jeproctor]

Had a very similar experience when I picked up my 2022 JLR in February. Signed the papers, hit the highway coming home and the Jeep was all over the road on the first curve. My 1981 Jeep CJ5 drove better than this thing. Started doing research and lowered the tire pressure. Seemed to help a little but was still very uncomfortable on curves and crosswinds while driving highway speeds. I looked into front lower control arms to adjust the caster but in the end I just kept driving it. What I have seen over the last four months and 10k miles is that the Jeep continues to drive better and better. Not sure what has changed but the Jeep no longer has the issues. Have a few thoughts and ideas on what might have caused the Jeep drive better after a break-in period but no conclusive evidence. Anyone else had had a similar experience.

 

[m3reno]

Would you benefit installing a geometry correction brackets for a stock Altitude? Trying to get rid of the wandering.

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