Is the JL Wrangler going to be sufficient in a crash?

[Goin' Coastal]

Where would I find more details on this?

I came across this on the 2017 Renegade's structural elements and would expect similar implementation for the JL. They discuss the importance of the hinge pillars in the small offset crash test. That may explain the hinge change. http://www.boronextrication.com/2017/03/26/2017-jeep-renegade-body-structure/

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[The Great Grape Ape]

That movement is far more a product of the other cars being designed for the new tests/standards during their refresh/new model. I expect the same kind of improvement with the JL.

Except there was no change in 2008-2011 other than cosmetic arm rest and instrument cluster aesthetics. Even the engine and transmission are the same. Had it been 2008 / 2012+ then at least there would be those differences.

Which is why I mention them in separate groups 2008 / 2011 and 2002 / 2004 as that shows the true difference between the TJ and the JK. At least with the TJ there were enough changes around the 2002 to make it significant that the number of vehicle on the rosd since 1997 to the 2002 test would impact the mix, but it just interesting the significant difference between it and the JK (which introduced ESP, TCS, ERM & BAS+ABS), but the numbers themselves may not correlate, but even they versus their model era counterparts which were lowere in the mix, although likely because it was approaching a refresh and didn't get attenion prior to the 2007 update.

I would expect the 2011 numbers to be more accurate since there was nearly 5 times as many sold than the 2008(517K to 110K) for pulling those numbers from. But that does lead into 2008 was likely skewed to mostly loyal Jeep enthusiasts that were modifying them than in 2011. I'd also want to see the average age of the drivers as I would bet there were way more teenagers in the base sport model for 2011.

Lotsa unsupported speculation there. First while larger populaton sizes can help statistical validity, you fail to account for aging vehicles & maintenance in the 110,000 vs 517,000 which means that they are not all comparable examples so while there are npmore their makeup becomes more heterogeneous. That initial 110,000 in the first 12 months or so likely were more consistent in condition.
Also of particullarly interesting note, the 2008 number for the 2dr was 157,000 versus 379,000 in 2011. Showing Initial stronger sales, but slower growth.

Also, why would there be more teenagers in 2011? As for modders, yeah, the first year is usually not high on the moder list in fact they usually wait a year or teo for the after-market to catch up (especially for a big change as the JKU was).

However, again with the JK it clearly illustrates that while some may do better on the artificial tests, in the real world, that doesn't necessarily equate to them being safer.

 

[Goin' Coastal]

With a 5 fold increase in sales chances are high that would include 5 times as many teens driving them.

 

[The Great Grape Ape]

With a 5 fold increase in sales chances are high that would include 5 times as many teens driving them.

Uhh, you understand it's a rate, not a total right? So a 5 fold increase in population size (sales) and a guesstimate of 5 fold increase in teen drivers, would be matched by a hypothetical 5 fold increase in middle-aged, or elderly drivers, which means the ratio is still 1:1, not changing the average composition.
The 5 fold increase in exposure simply improves the confidence level of the extrapolation for the rate per million, improving internal validity as I previously stated.

 

[Goin' Coastal]

Correct, but the a 5 time larger sample inexperienced teens influence on the numbers are going to show more.

 

[The Great Grape Ape]

Correct, but the a 5 time larger sample inexperienced teens influence on the numbers are going to show more.

How? It's a rate? 5x teens + 5x eldery + 5x middle aged then all averaged by the 5x bigger population remains 1:1 so the impact remains the same.

Now if it were 7x teens and 6x elderly and 4x middle aged then I'd grant that you'd see influence from a number skewed towards the teens, but from an equally distributed increase then the population infouence remains the same.
So if you have evidence to show that there is that unbalanced increase, I'd love to see it and then would grant some pssible validity to some theory you're putting forth, but without it, then the data would be assumed to be consistent.

Something for you to also consider is that even the IIHS themselves have saidmthst they have already sccounted for variations in age, so your theory as to why model years are different may have already been accounted for by the IIHS' own statisticians.

 

[Shawn Ash]

I came across this on the 2017 Renegade's structural elements and would expect similar implementation for the JL. They discuss the importance of the hinge pillars in the small offset crash test. That may explain the hinge change. http://www.boronextrication.com/2017/03/26/2017-jeep-renegade-body-structure/

Thanks for posting this, very interesting. I hope to see a diagram like this for the JL/JLU. I know the doors are not counted as providing any structural crash support on the JK but it would be good to know the JL is going to be designed with high strength steel around the doors and part of the rocker panel, using aluminum to offset the added weight.

 

[Glow Girl]

I've always been a Wrangler fan and have had a Jeep for the past 2 years. When I drive I don't usually stress over the fact that if I happened to get in a side-collision that there is a high risk of severe injury or death. Have you looked at the crash ratings for the JK Wrangler? It's pretty scary...

Anyways, my point of writing this is: Will the JL have improved crash results? Specifically, will the JL come standard with some sturdier doors, side airbags, airbag curtains and yada yada? It's been proven that the doors can be removed from the JL, so what's changed? Is this even possible?

I have been in two accidents in my “15 JK in the past three months, the first was the front end where my steel replacement bumper took the brunt of force and I walked away with little more than some sore muscles. The second wreck I was t boned on the drivers side with very little damage to the doors. They had to be replaced but again I walked away without a scratch. I looked at the JLs but the doors will now be aluminum instead of steel, so I would like to know for the future how that will stand up to the solid steel of the JKs. I feel pretty darn lucky right now and plan on getting her some fancy new hardware for protecting me so well!

 

[DivingPyrate]

high center of gravity, removable doors and top, windshield folds down
Not the best choice is safety is your first concern

Volvo they are boxy but they are good

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

One thing we can count on is the new cage structure will do much better in a crash involving rollover. I've never rolled my JK but the pics I've seen are scary.

These photos are misleading...I believe those photos are of jeeps that had high, multiple rollovers offroad (think rolling off mountain shelf roads) and it was never rated to handle that.

 

[Plasterboard]

I've always been a Wrangler fan and have had a Jeep for the past 2 years. When I drive I don't usually stress over the fact that if I happened to get in a side-collision that there is a high risk of severe injury or death. Have you looked at the crash ratings for the JK Wrangler? It's pretty scary...

Anyways, my point of writing this is: Will the JL have improved crash results? Specifically, will the JL come standard with some sturdier doors, side airbags, airbag curtains and yada yada? It's been proven that the doors can be removed from the JL, so what's changed? Is this even possible?

I work for a major auto insurance company and while I can’t say for sure about anything “rating” wise for the Wranglers - I can say that I RARELY ever see Wrangler in accidents or making claims. Now of course there could be millions of reasons for this but it’s just my observation. It could possibly be due to Wrangler drivers just being more observant, or possibly less wreckless, but I can definitely say I can’t even remember the last time I’ve seen a Wrangler accident/claim in the years I’ve been doing it - and I e had thousands and thousands of claims cross my desk.

 

[1quick1]

I work for a major auto insurance company and while I can’t say for sure about anything “rating” wise for the Wranglers - I can say that I RARELY ever see Wrangler in accidents or making claims. Now of course there could be millions of reasons for this but it’s just my observation. It could possibly be due to Wrangler drivers just being more observant, or possibly less wreckless, but I can definitely say I can’t even remember the last time I’ve seen a Wrangler accident/claim in the years I’ve been doing it - and I e had thousands and thousands of claims cross my desk.

Honda Accord and Toyota Corola?

 

[TheRealTVGuy]

I don’t know about crash ratings, but here’s what happened yesterday in Orlando when the driver of a JL Unlimited Sport became involved in a shootout.

The JL ended up crossing the median and crashing head-on into another vehicle.

 

[Plasterboard]

Honda Accord and Toyota Corola?

If you were asking if those were common ones? I would say yes, as is mostly any commuter car. There are a lot of claims with pickups likely because of the possible blind spot or height of the pickup causing visibility concerns. Most claims are between the typical commuter car, which makes sense. 99% of the time it boils down to someone just not paying attention or being distracted as opposed to the vehicle itself. It’s usually driver error.

It just happens that certain cars typically are driven by more observant drivers. Almost all accidents can be avoided by someone simply keeping a proper lookout. Cars I rarely see are Wranglers, almost all Volvo’s, and Smart Cars.

Also, you would be disgusted how manny people are struck as pedestrians because they just FAIL to look left a right before crossing the street. People just BLINDLY cross the street all the time.

 

[1quick1]

If you were asking if those were common ones? I would say yes, as is mostly any commuter car. There are a lot of claims with pickups likely because of the possible blind spot or height of the pickup causing visibility concerns. Most claims are between the typical commuter car, which makes sense. 99% of the time it boils down to someone just not paying attention or being distracted as opposed to the vehicle itself. It’s usually driver error.

It just happens that certain cars typically are driven by more observant drivers. Almost all accidents can be avoided by someone simply keeping a proper lookout. Cars I rarely see are Wranglers, almost all Volvo’s, and Smart Cars.

Also, you would be disgusted how manny people are struck as pedestrians because they just FAIL to look left a right before crossing the street. People just BLINDLY cross the street all the time.

I was.

I live in Denver and with a lifted Jeep so I can see in easily, the amount of people on their phone in traffic ALL the time is absolutely mind boggling to me. Nothing surprises me.

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