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Is the JL the worst Jeep ever?

rickinAZ

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I did the opposite in '07. Traded in my '04 Audi S4 for the JK in when they came out. Best decision I ever made. Audi was ALWAYS in the dealership for problem and had my JK for 7 years and never had a single issue the whole time.
Like I said earlier, it’s the luck of the draw. Every brand has its issues.
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Bruce Willys

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We've all heard stories about the work effort and can-do attitude of American citizens during the war and on into the 1950s. That work ethic, and pride in one's work, is largely gone. And...I'm not sure how that changes back - ever.

Here is a minor example of not caring about one's work - even if the job is boneheadedly simple.
Back in the 1950s, it wasn't uncommon to work a 9 to 5 job and be able to afford to buy a house, have kids, support a stay at home wife, and buy a new car. That's unattainable nowadays for a lot of working class people. I used to be a front line manager of a warehouse years ago, there was little motivation among most of the workers to put forth any extra effort above the bare minimum, and I was given almost no tools to incentivize harder work. My charm and telling people that they're doing a good job only went so far, and giving them company swag (water bottles, jackets, etc) is not what they want, they want more money so they can afford to live. They want extra pay for working weekends. They want to be able to afford their bills, yet they're getting paid chump change by companies that turn billions of dollars of profit a year.

I'm not arguing for minimum wage increases, or any changes in legislation. The politicians only care about lining their own pockets and their buddies pockets. Same with the unions. I'm throwing out there that maybe if places paid their people better and acted like they really cared about their workforce, maybe people would take more pride in their work if they didn't feel like they were being taken advantage of. But that will never happen, in the end most people don't really care about their neighbors and are short-term greedy. United we stand, divided we fall. The American dream is unattainable for too many hard working people, and if you don't care about that because you're personally doing alright, we've already lost. Our kids are all going to grow up together to shape the next generation.

Of course there's so much more to it than that, we're competing with foreign sweatshops that manufacture products way cheaper than we possibly can with our regulations. So some would argue we shouldn't have minimum wage, or environmental regulations, or child labor laws... For what exactly? To turn more of a profit on cheaply made crap? Meanwhile these American factory workers are sleeping in their dilapidated car between their double shifts, and their kids are uneducated and malnourished getting ready to go mingle with mine. That's my take on the lack of pride from what I've seen, people feel marginalized/unimportant and their work quality reflects it.
 

Ray Pezzi

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Ray,

Small world. While working at Chrysler we lived in Grand Blanc. Nice quiet little town until Tiger Woods would play at the Buick Open. Gridlock every time he did. Times do change and certainly not always for the better.

Jay
Ah, good old Grand Blanc. I've spent a lot of time down there. My wife grew up there (McCandlish Rd. at Irish Rd.) and her late father's stoneyard is on Saginaw St. just north of Hill Rd. -- and I've been to Warwick Hills for the Buick Open several times. I was always happy to get on I-75 and head back to northern Michigan, though.

Great union story! I'll give you one in return: while I was an MSU student, I landed what should have been an ideal job for an impoverished kid with a lot of studying to do: weekend security guard at one of the big plants in Lansing. The job was pretty simple, basically just sit in your office and keep an eye on things. This was in the late 70's during a recession and they weren't running any weekend shifts, so basically I just had to make my rounds throughout the deserted plant once every hour to make sure nothing was on fire, etc. You wore this thing that looked like a big clock and as you made your rounds, there were various stations in the plant where you had to insert a key into the clock and give it a turn. This made a mark on a tape inside the clock and at the end of the shift you'd turn in that tape to prove that you really had made your rounds every hour. I loved it because those rounds only took about 15 minutes, leaving me 45 minutes out of every hour to study -- and with two 12 hour shifts on a weekend, the money was great.

Everything went well for several weeks until there started being a few guys in the plant. I had no idea what they were doing, but whatever it was, they didn't want me to see it. One of the guys came over to me and said, Look, kid -- I'm going to show you how to do this so you don't get in trouble. He showed me how to dismantle the clock and advance it an hour, turn the key, advance it another hour, turn the key, etc. The idea was that you'd make your rounds only once in the 12 hour shift and just fake the times on the tape to make it look like you'd actually been making your rounds every hour -- and then sit in your office the rest of the day to let those guys do whatever they were doing unobserved. (Yes, I know this "technology" seems stone age now, but that was 40+ years ago.)

I told him thanks, but they hired me to do a job and I'm going to do it. So I continued to make my rounds every hour -- and when I walked out to the parking lot at the end of my shift, all 4 tires on my Ford Pinto wagon had been slashed. I went in Monday to complain to my boss and instead of being backed up, he yelled at me. "You idiot -- that's the union. Don't rock the boat!" And then during the week they called to tell me I'd been fired, no need to go back to the plant next Saturday.

Ahhh, you gotta love 'em....
 

jeepoch

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Ray,

Don't feel too bad. I was once kicked out of the GM Saginaw Assembly plant for picking up trash.

I was working for Volvo Automated Systems, an American division of the Swedish Car Company at that time (mid 80's) working on installing a pilotless Automated Guided Vehicle (AGV) Tugger system to help transport parts around the plant.

Plant management was really looking forward to having a system deliver inventory on-time whenever a worker pushed a button indicating they needed more stock.

In the past, when they hit their 'need more stuff button', eventually a unionized forklift driver would show up with a pallet of whatever was requested. However, the forklift driver would show up whenever he felt like getting around to it. Sometimes workers would wait around for around an hour.

The new Tugger system would deliver the same pallet of parts but reliably within minutes. For most workers they loved this because they could go home when their set (quota) number of assembled pieces where finished. With the Tugger they could get their work done in about half the time. Typically in about 4 hours.

However, the fork-lift drivers saw this system as a threat to their job security. They knew very well who I was, who I worked for and why I was there. I was meeting with a GM Engineer at some numbered building pole in the plant. I believe it was something like D72.

Anyway I got there a little early. There were a couple of vending machines located nearby along with a trash can. While standing around waiting, I noticed a crumpled potato chip bag sitting on the floor next to the trash bin. Without even realizing it, I bent over picked up the litter and tossed it into the trash.

Damn, you would have thought a tornado warning was issued. Several workers came out of the woodwork screaming "STEWARD, STEWARD". Not coincidentally a Steward was right there as well. They claimed that I was taking a janitor's job away. The Steward filed a former grievance and I was promptly escorted off the premises by security.

The meeting eventually was rescheduled but this time off-site with no union intervention.

Our company soon eventually installed the Tugger system with great success. For roughly about 6 months.

Then, mysteriously the equipment started failing due to being shot (with bullets). We quickly pulled out of the service contract because our service personnel feared that if they continued to repair the damage, they would become the next targets.

So after about 8 months, instead of the company pursuing criminal investigations, they just abandoned the whole project and went back to using fork lifts.

Total wasted investment and productivity loss. Of course the cost of this fiasco was probably passed straight on to the consumer with a higher sticker price on every vehicle.

It didn't surprise me in the slightest when thousands of jobs were lost when that plant was eventually closed.

Yuck. I could continue with these stories all night long (maybe longer). It never surprises me that any vehicle can be built at all independent of any reliability metric.

Maybe (hopefully) things have changed for the better since then. It does surprise me that never, I repeat never, do you ever hear any criticism of the unions. It's always the fault of this or that car company.

Jay
 

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jeepoch

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Ray,

Probably a very good idea. I could go on and on (and on) with all the union stories from my past. Not one single good recollection in my nearly 20+ years within the auto industry. Not one.

So it's best we leave it be. Hopefully, the car companies and unions have made better progress between themselves. But I really, unfortunately don't believe that. Way, way too much money and potential graft involved.

I also don't believe the JL is "the worst Jeep ever." No way. I have fortunately found a way to get a properly assembled one. The union must not have been in a particularly foul mood the day my Sport S was built.

I totally understand how unions we're in fact once a good thing. But that pendulum has swung so far in the opposite direction. From my experience, quality was (maybe still is) just something to be 'negotiated' for more money. Nothing else. Certainly not a universal goal. Perhaps (hopefully) that pendulum has started to swing back.

Unfortunately if it did, we wouldn't be conversing in this thread.

Truthfully though, my JL has been the very best vehicle I've ever owned. By far, bar none. Really. Coming from someone who knows exactly how these sausages are made, that is saying something.

Good luck, safe travels...
Jay
 

Ray Pezzi

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Truthfully though, my JL has been the very best vehicle I've ever owned. By far, bar none. Really. Coming from someone who knows exactly how these sausages are made, that is saying something.

Good luck, safe travels...
Jay
Thanks, Jay! I'm glad your Jeep is working out well for you - I really wish mine had for me. I was very excited and happy when I ordered it, but I think I had more issues in 5,395 miles with the Jeep than I did in about 250,000 miles in various Toyotas. Oh well, onward and upward. Right now I'm just having a blast driving a vehicle again that goes where I point it!
 

Goosed

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Thanks, Jay! I'm glad your Jeep is working out well for you - I really wish mine had for me. I was very excited and happy when I ordered it, but I think I had more issues in 5,395 miles with the Jeep than I did in about 250,000 miles in various Toyotas. Oh well, onward and upward. Right now I'm just having a blast driving a vehicle again that goes where I point it!
I saw the dealer site and pulled up your car fax, only two service records for oil change and then the dealer intake. Was your Jeep dealer not documenting all of your issues you were having when it came in?
 

gschones

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Lots of talk about people loving their Toyota and Audis on here. There is only one problem. "It's not a Jeep'! I have a 2018 Audi and it is no comparison to my JLU 80th Anniversary. The Audi sticker was 45k. I paid 34k for my 2018 JLU and got 30k trade in towards my 2021 JLU Anniversary. I am going to trade on the Audi soon and won't get half of the sticker on the trade in. Nothing holds its value like a Jeep.
 

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Goosed

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Lots of talk about people loving their Toyota and Audis on here. There is only one problem. "It's not a Jeep'! I have a 2018 Audi and it is no comparison to my JLU 80th Anniversary. The Audi sticker was 45k. I paid 34k for my 2018 JLU and got 30k trade in towards my 2021 JLU Anniversary. I am going to trade on the Audi soon and won't get half of the sticker on the trade in. Nothing holds its value like a Jeep.
You’ll make up for it with non warranty repairs and be upside down in no time!
 

COBill

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Really, complaints are in the eye of the beholder.

A great example is on my TJ i had Jeep replace my driveshaft five times before giving up as it would develop a loud "clank" when shifting between reverse and forward when fully stopped.

Each time the replacement driveshaft would solve the issue… for a few months.

Whether that was an issue depends on whether you thought it was just a Jeep thing or not.

For me, my rule of thumb is if a brand new one on the lot doesn't do it, it's something that needs to be addressed under warranty.

The same goes for things like paint issues and even the defroster air pattern.
 

rickinAZ

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You’ll make up for it with non warranty repairs and be upside down in no time!
Had my JK Rubicon Hard Rock for five years - trouble-free (except for a new battery). Trade time I got 78% of my purchase price back via private sale. That said, I had $7K in modifications. Throwing them into the math, I still got 59% back. Try that with any German car. Don't get me wrong. I like German cars, but the Jeep is bullet proof resale-wise.
 
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Jimac

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I must have the only JL with no issues. My 34 years in the Sheet Metal Workers Union was a joy and so is my retirement life. No complaints, no worries. Life is good.
I spent 4 years in IAM (International Aviation machinist) and 38 years in SMW local 124 plus 3 year Army Enjoyed also have 2018 JLR with only issue being cracked windshield in 3 years of off-roading flat-towing and daily driving Life is good Having had Jeep’s in the driveway since 1974 (1955 m38A1 surplus)

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gschones

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You’ll make up for it with non warranty repairs and be upside down in no time!
Never upside down in my jeep. 48k jeep for 14k. Paid.off.in 3 years. The Audi has 18k on it. It has factory problems that still are not resolved. For example when trying to pull out into a busy street and you give it the gas it hesitates. It has caused some scary moments. Audi finally admitted that the have q software glitch and have been trying to fix it for a year. Someone will get a nice Audi A 4 Premium Plus for around 20k soon.
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