Is the JL generation history in the making?

[Zandcwhite]

No, because Chrysler is a separate brand under Stellantis.
The above article concerns Chrysler, NOT Jeep.

Keep telling yourself that.

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[sixspeed]

I'm curious to hear other people's thoughts on wrangler reliability. With more competition from Ford and Toyota in the off-road space, is this going to make Jeep more sloppy in reliability because of the added pressure to make a better product for the next gen wrangler? Or will the added pressure make Jeep raise the bar even higher in reliability?

I wonder if the JL will be the last wrangler sporting the tried-and-trued 3.6 gasoline pentastar. So far, the JL seems super reliable (except for a couple things here and there under warranty). With Jeep offering complex hybrids, trying to offer electric by 2025, and Ford using turbos everywhere, I wonder if we are seeing the last years of simple, naturally aspirated engines in wranglers with the JL. Makes me want to hold on to my JL with the 3.6 to see how sought-after it might become.

I have had a JKU and two JLUs. I have never had any bad reliability issues (although there horror stories elsewhere on this forum). I have always had some fit and finish problems, and Jeeps do not have Japanese or German level engineering. Check out the two little pieces of rubber that are supposed to hold the back glass down tight for example. I would give newer models like the 4xe two or three years to work out the bugs and stick with the tried and true until then.

 

[TJRUBICON06]

I have heard others talk about the 4.0, saying it was good for it's time, but...
I thought the 4.0 w/ manual was a great combo. Slow, I guess, I don't "race" my wrangler anyway. The TJ was a little shorter and narrower wheel base, so I never drove it over 65 anyway. (well maybe a few times, but not often) But I never thought getting up to 65 while entering a hiway, I was any slower than the average vehicle. And like you said, it's torque was down low, (not like the pentastar) exactly where i wanted it.

The JL is a much better Jeep than the TJ when it comes to convenience, and comfort (not a whole lot more comfortable). But If I could have optioned my JLR with the 4.0, I would have in a heart beat. The Pentastar is reliable, they had their growing pains, but above average in reliability at this stage of the game. But I can say, I had 2 of the 4.0 inline 6, and I thought they were bullet proof. I think around 2002-2004 they had some problems, but i can't remember what that was. Luckily mine were very reliable, which is what I value most in an engine. Having the torque right where it should be was an added benefit.

Maybe I am being nosalgic, but they never left me stranded, and was fast enough for a box on wheels.

I have heard others talk about the 4.0, saying it was good for it's time, but...
I thought the 4.0 w/ manual was a great combo. Slow, I guess, I don't "race" my wrangler anyway. The TJ was a little shorter and narrower wheel base, so I never drove it over 65 anyway. (well maybe a few times, but not often) But I never thought getting up to 65 while entering a hiway, I was any slower than the average vehicle. And like you said, it's torque was down low, (not like the pentastar) exactly where i wanted it.

The JL is a much better Jeep than the TJ when it comes to convenience, and comfort (not a whole lot more comfortable). But If I could have optioned my JLR with the 4.0, I would have in a heart beat. The Pentastar is reliable, they had their growing pains, but above average in reliability at this stage of the game. But I can say, I had 2 of the 4.0 inline 6, and I thought they were bullet proof. I think around 2002-2004 they had some problems, but i can't remember what that was. Luckily mine were very reliable, which is what I value most in an engine. Having the torque right where it should be was an added benefit.

Maybe I am being nosalgic, but they never left me stranded, and was fast enough for a box on wheels.

I agree, I currently own 3 TJ's all 4.0 Both teenage grand daughters drive 4.0 TJ's. Something special about owning and daily driving a TJ!

 

[jessedacri]

Keep telling yourself that.

They could absolutely carve Jeep or really just the Wrangler out as a recreational brand and still offer ICE. They have a unique product that doesn't fit the mold like nearly every other consumer vehicle offered by every other manufacturer both in their suite of companies and industry-wide. It's an oddity in the market: a half ton class passenger SUV with a solid front axle and body on frame in a world of independent suspension unibody comfort barges. I think if it was practical, Ford would have come out of the gate with an EV Bronco, having had the ability to design one from the ground up for 2021.

With the F150 lightning, Silverado EV, hummer EV etc I don't doubt we're getting a full EV wrangler in the next few years but I just don't think you can push the Wrangler to have respectable range without losing the fundamentals. It's just not aerodynamic enough both in terms of body and undercarriage and there's nowhere to put a massive array of cells. You'd need a battery ~2x the size of Tesla's Model S Long Range battery to go anywhere near as far. Even if you shove cells in the frame rails, fill the under hood area and under the backseat like the 4xe I can't see that being enough volume.



As for all the ridiculous anti-california takes in here, it's going to be okay. Teslas are not going to blow up the power grid. Nobody's coming for your engine. Relax. And go rent a Tesla on Turo or something. They're a blast.

 

[Zandcwhite]

They could absolutely carve Jeep or really just the Wrangler out as a recreational brand and still offer ICE. They have a unique product that doesn't fit the mold like nearly every other consumer vehicle offered by every other manufacturer both in their suite of companies and industry-wide. It's an oddity in the market: a half ton class passenger SUV with a solid front axle and body on frame in a world of independent suspension unibody comfort barges. I think if it was practical, Ford would have come out of the gate with an EV Bronco, having had the ability to design one from the ground up for 2021.

With the F150 lightning, Silverado EV, hummer EV etc I don't doubt we're getting a full EV wrangler in the next few years but I just don't think you can push the Wrangler to have respectable range without losing the fundamentals. It's just not aerodynamic enough both in terms of body and undercarriage and there's nowhere to put a massive array of cells. You'd need a battery ~2x the size of Tesla's Model S Long Range battery to go anywhere near as far. Even if you shove cells in the frame rails, fill the under hood area and under the backseat like the 4xe I can't see that being enough volume

Jeep fit 70kWh worth of batteries in the magneto concept while retaining the full drivetrain including the transmission, and it's a 2 door that is known for a complete lack of storage space. The idea that they'll keep some niche ICE version of the Wrangler that they literally won't be able to sell in nearly any of the most populous states by 2035 is a pipe dream at best. I doubt we see an ICE successor to the JL, but even if we do it will be very short lived. My hope is a solid axle EV wrangler, motor on axle like the rc crawlers. Eliminating all powertrain from the chassis would allow batteries frame rail to frame rail the entire length of the vehicle with a nice flat belly and thick skid for sliding across obstacles. Ample room for huge capacity.

 

[JustDave]

They were all the greatest thing going when they came out. I certainly don't think the JL will be one to keep forever. Too much new technology in them. It's going to cost a lot as the miles pile up on them. I wish they would have just improved on the JK & not started from scratch.

 

[jessedacri]

Jeep fit 70kWh worth of batteries in the magneto concept while retaining the full drivetrain including the transmission, and it's a 2 door that is known for a complete lack of storage space. The idea that they'll keep some niche ICE version of the Wrangler that they literally won't be able to sell in nearly any of the most populous states by 2035 is a pipe dream at best. I doubt we see an ICE successor to the JL, but even if we do it will be very short lived. My hope is a solid axle EV wrangler, motor on axle like the rc crawlers. Eliminating all powertrain from the chassis would allow batteries frame rail to frame rail the entire length of the vehicle with a nice flat belly and thick skid for sliding across obstacles. Ample room for huge capacity.

I wasn't aware we knew the battery size of the Magneto, that's pretty cool. I agree if they can get rid of the transfer case, driveshafts, transmission, and fuel tank all in one go there may be enough room - but at the same time 70kwh in a Model S gets you ~250 miles, 70kwh in a Wrangler with big heavy tires and bad aerodynamics may only get you ~100 on a good day with a light foot. If they can get it to 200-250 miles of range that doesn't turn into nothing with 35" MTs mounted they'll have a winner

 

[JLUW75]

Chrysler essentially confirmed the JL will be the last ICE Jeep with their announcement yesterday about going full EV by 2028 right?

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/05/chr...ll-electric-by-2028-with-airflow-concept.html

This was the Chrysler division which only makes one minivan and an aging Chrysler 300. This was not the whole of FCA combined divisions going all-electric in just a few years. There is no way in hell a company can transition to all EV for all makes and models in just one product cycle. The amount of R&D and resources needed would be insane!

 

[IdahoJOAT]

I think your right, but honestly given how much longer charging takes, I hope we see a 600+ mile option before ICE goes away.

And people complain about the cost of gas / gallon. Wait until we hit $1kWh

It's all relative is the thing.

 

[roaniecowpony]

It's all relative is the thing.

Agree. We're all going to pay what the market will bear. Right now, we're demonstrating what the market will bear. $4.24 national average today and as high as 5.90 in some places. With an average of 25.7 (2021 data for light duty personal vehicles), you can bet someone's trying to figure out how to get that same money we're paying oil companies for gasoline, into their pocket for electricity, because that's what it's worth to us.

 

[Jtphoto]

The JK was history in the making. A whole new generation of family off roading was opened up with its introduction and as you can see by its sales numbers, the JKU was a huge hit and continues to be with the JLU. Jeep stretched its neck out to the test the market for a 4dr Wrangler and it paid off. The JLU is nothing new or special it is basically a modernized JKU.

It Is sad really, in the late 60s early 70s we could get 30mpg out of a big V8 with a 4bbl carb engine. Today they fight to get that out of V6.

 

[roaniecowpony]

...

It Is sad really, in the late 60s early 70s we could get 30mpg out of a big V8 with a 4bbl carb engine. Today they fight to get that out of V6.

30mpg...What vehicle? This?

Just remember today, everyone wants powered everything, internet access, cooled seats, etc., making our JLUs into almost 5000lb beasts. Even "econo cars" today are 3000lb plus vehicles.

 

[2nd 392]

H

The JK was history in the making. A whole new generation of family off roading was opened up with its introduction and as you can see by its sales numbers, the JKU was a huge hit and continues to be with the JLU. Jeep stretched its neck out to the test the market for a 4dr Wrangler and it paid off. The JLU is nothing new or special it is basically a modernized JKU.

It Is sad really, in the late 60s early 70s we could get 30mpg out of a big V8 with a 4bbl carb engine. Today they fight to get that out of V6.

WHAT!!!— 30 WHAT— Performance small blocks were lucky to get half of that, big blocks a third!!! My 69 GTX got 6 mpg, L79 Nova 12, L79 CJ5 8, Bronco 9. 60’s Volkswagen Beetles nowhere near 30 around town. Muscle cars were not fuel efficient and starting in 72 mileage got worse because power was cut in half due to smog regulations and you had to stand on it to get out of your own way!!!

 

[Jtphoto]

H

WHAT!!!— 30 WHAT— Performance small blocks were lucky to get half of that, big blocks a third!!! My 69 GTX got 6 mpg, L79 Nova 12, L79 CJ5 8, Bronco 9. 60’s Volkswagen Beetles nowhere near 30 around town. Muscle cars were not fuel efficient and starting in 72 mileage got worse because power was cut in half due to smog regulations and you had to stand on it to get out of your own way!!!

Lol there is a difference between a muscle car with a big block and a regular sedan. Google the 100mpg club from the 60s and 70s. What you get racing around town and what the motor can get when properly set up are two different things. My 72 Duster 318 with 2.90 gears could easily pull 25mpg.

 

[roaniecowpony]

The only car of that era that meets the 4bbl V8 description that I personally witnessed, that could approach that MPG was a C3 Corvette which was getting mid 20s. Another car that was in that range was a 215 alum block 4 bbl Olds 1961 Cutlass that could get mid 20s on a good day. Both of them on steady hwy trips. Not around town at all.

My post of the national average data of 25.7 is supposedly an average across the nation of all fuel burned in light vehicles. And that sounds extremely high to me.

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