Is the eTorque really a hybrid?

[turbosix]

The Chevy Volt works like a diesel locomotive. Has a gas engine that is essentially a generator. It does nothing other than charge the batteries that run the electric motors. It’s I guess it’s actually a hybrid of an all electric and a hybrid.


A Prius (among others I’m sure) has both the ICE and the electric motor connected to a planetary gear set (transmission) and it is absolutely a hybrid by industry definition.

The first gen volt definitely had the engine mechanically connected to the wheels.

Sponsored

 

[R3TRO]

Which hybrids only use the motor as a generator.

My Volt worked this way and is a very underrated car. I didn't expect to like it as much as I did. Also my neighbor has a BMW i3. It has a motorcycle engine that acts only as a generator, but they call it a range extender. I believe the Honda Clarity (fuel cell/hydrogen) works this way too? I'm sure there's others, but many are just marketed as PHEV.

 

[turbosix]

My Volt worked this way and is a very underrated car. I didn't expect to like it as much as I did. Also my neighbor has a BMW i3. It has a motorcycle engine that acts only as a generator, but they call it a range extender. I believe the Honda Clarity (fuel cell/hydrogen) works this way too? I'm sure there's others, but many are just marketed as PHEV.

https://www.engadget.com/2010-10-11...olts-gas-engine-can-power-the-wheels-its.html

 

[Zandcwhite]

No, eTorque is not technically a hybrid. It is a misnomer to even be called a mild-hybrid.

Hybrids employ fully electric motor(s) that provide the primary tractive motive force. The ICE engine is used just to run a generator which then charges the vehicle's main battery. This allows the vehicle to operate without needing an external (plugged-in) recharge.


The eTorque system uses a much (much) smaller electric motor, connected directly to the Internal Combustion Engine's crankshaft. Therefore it does not provide the primary tractive motive force. It rather just assists the normal powertrain to build initial torque and momentum up to about 2-3 mph. After that, it drops out completely and contributes no further to any powertrain output energy. In fact it becomes a small amount of drag reducing the overall output power potential.

THe primary reason behind eTorque is to eliminate the god-awful mini motorcycle sized AUX battery for the Engine Start Stop (ESS) system. The small bump push of the little motor is specifically used to restart motion when the engine has been turned off during idling events. Instead of 'eTorque' it should be called 'ASS' or yet Another Start Stop. But that is nowhere near as sexy for the marketing brochure. This propaganda deflects it's true purpose and make it look like something more useful than it really is.

The marketing genius that came up with 'eTorque' probably got a big-ASS bonus.

Jay

That is 100% false. From the Prius to the cmaxx every hybrid is primarily engine driven with an electric assist. The Prius prime and cmaxx are plug-in hybrids that can operate in fully electric mode, for short distances and at limited loads much like the 4xe. 90%+ of my commute miles, in a cmaxx, are ice. Granted I have electric assist that makes the vehicle pull much harder than the ice engine alone, but it’s an ice vehicle like any other hybrid out there. The only vehicle I can think of that operates in the way you described is the bmw i3, an EV with optional “range extender” generator. Yes the etorque is a mild hybrid as it never functions in fully electric mode and is only supplemental to the gas engine. There is not a single hybrid that is primarily electric, unless of course you only drive your cmax, Prius prime, 4xe, etc a few miles at a time at less than freeway speed.

 

[displayname]

I have a feeling Jeep and several other brands will be leaning on etorque type systems to say “all models electrified by 202X”

 

[jaymz]

The first gen volt definitely had the engine mechanically connected to the wheels.

Yeah, but that’s been gone 5 or 6 years now, which is pretty much an eternity in the hybrid/electric world.

 

[R3TRO]

https://www.engadget.com/2010-10-11...olts-gas-engine-can-power-the-wheels-its.html

I had gen2... not sure if anything from the article was changed? I still prefer a hybrid to be mostly plug-in then have the ICE come on when batteries are depleted.

 

[Zandcwhite]

I had gen2... not sure if anything from the article was changed? I still prefer a hybrid to be mostly plug-in then have the ICE come on when batteries are depleted.

The range of the electric only mode was increased in gen2, but the drivetrain layout was no different. An ice engine and an electric motor attached to the transmission. It is only primarily electric if charged and run less than 53 miles. I guess you could argue it is primarily electric if run less than 100 miles per trip, if it is always fully charged between trips. Realistically, for road trips, long distance commuters, Uber drivers, or people who live in apartments and cannot charge between every trip it very quickly becomes primarily ice with an electric supplement.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Yeah, but that’s been gone 5 or 6 years now, which is pretty much an eternity in the hybrid/electric world.

Gen 2 was discontinued 3 years ago, but it didn't have a gas generator "to charge the batteries" either. Ice engine and electric motor, both attached to the drivetrain directly, by definition a hybrid. Again, the id3, a true EV, is the only vehicle I can think of that had the drivetrain layout you described (and only if you opted for the range extender generator).

 

[jeepoch]

That is 100% false. From the Prius to the cmaxx every hybrid is primarily engine driven with an electric assist. The Prius prime and cmaxx are plug-in hybrids that can operate in fully electric mode, for short distances and at limited loads much like the 4xe. 90%+ of my commute miles, in a cmaxx, are ice. Granted I have electric assist that makes the vehicle pull much harder than the ice engine alone, but it’s an ice vehicle like any other hybrid out there. The only vehicle I can think of that operates in the way you described is the bmw i3, an EV with optional “range extender” generator. Yes the etorque is a mild hybrid as it never functions in fully electric mode and is only supplemental to the gas engine. There is not a single hybrid that is primarily electric, unless of course you only drive your cmax, Prius prime, 4xe, etc a few miles at a time at less than freeway speed.

Zach, my focus is specifically on the Jeep Wrangler JL implementation of the hybrid concept, not the entire history of electrifying cars in general (from gen1). I also apologize for comparing this future PHEV technology to that of locomotives which have implemented a true hybrid solution for more than half a century.

I've edited my post to make this more clear. It's funny how the spirit of these threads can become so twisted.

This thread is exploring whether (or not) the 'eTorque' application can be considered a hybrid. Even though it's marketed as a 'mild-hybrid', I argue that this is misleading. The true purpose of the eTorque system is not for general purpose horsepower but rather to fix the crappy mini AUX battery nonsense and help (assist) with a more smoother start of the internal combustion engine upon ESS events. Nothing more.

Jay

 

[RoadiJeff]

I was going over some of the showcases and noticed one called a hybrid Rubicon. A 2018 with the 2.0.

Is the eTorque system really considered a hybrid system?

Not according to the IRS when I prepare my income taxes and it has a special section for hybrid vehicle deductions. Their definition does not fit what our 2.0T eTorque Recon is.

 

[Rescue119]

In one of the provinces in Canada, Saskatchewan, they are adding a electric car tax to the plate yearly renewals.

Reason. The tax on gas is used for roads but since electric cars don't use gas, yet still use the roads, the government still needs money to maintain them and if everyone started using electric cars then the would lose money so this is how they are going to get that money back.

I can see this being they way.

Same as the carbon tax introduced here in Canada. Taxing company's emissions based on usage. Then those company's increase there prices to make up for that, which is put onto the tax payers. All in the name of the environment.

Which we all no Russia and China are the biggest emitters and they didn't even attend the global suit because tdgaf.

 

[turbosix]

Zach, my focus is specifically on the Jeep Wrangler JL implementation of the hybrid concept, not the entire history of electrifying cars in general (from gen1). I also apologize for comparing this future PHEV technology to that of locomotives which have implemented a true hybrid solution for more than half a century.

I've edited my post to make this more clear. It's funny how the spirit of these threads can become so twisted.

This thread is exploring whether (or not) the 'eTorque' application can be considered a hybrid. Even though it's marketed as a 'mild-hybrid', I argue that this is misleading. The true purpose of the eTorque system is not for general purpose horsepower but rather to fix the crappy mini AUX battery nonsense and help (assist) with a more smoother start of the internal combustion engine upon ESS events. Nothing more.

Jay

It's ironic because your posts are incredibly misleading...

 

[john adams]

I'm aware of how a diesel locomotive works. We were talking about cars. I didn't realize the volt had a generator. I thought it was only electric. Are there any others?

The Volt has the gas generator. The Bolt is EV only.

 

[John VonJeep]

The true purpose of the eTorque system is not for general purpose horsepower but rather to fix the crappy mini AUX battery nonsense and help (assist) with a more smoother start of the internal combustion engine upon ESS events. Nothing more.

That’s not true. eTorque does indeed fix the crappy, buggy ESS system. But it does more than that:

* Rotates the driven wheels a half turn at take-off, thereby reducing driveline stress at the moment of maximum stress.

* Smooths out transmission shifts.

* Runs most electrical systems at speed so engine doesn’t take the parasitic loss.

* Provides rev matching on downshifts.

* Light regenerative braking.

* And, of course, auto start/stop.

So is eTorque a hybrid? I’d say yes; a very very mild one. But it primarily functions to reduce strain on engine and driveline components, while proving minor efficiency gains and a smoother driving experience.

A shame that Jeep has completely failed to explain all of this to prospective buyers.

Sponsored