Is overheating an issue?

Plongson

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I've posted this before... after repeated requests to Jeep, this is what I got from their engineering group regarding heat on the 2020 EcoDiesel.

Overheat:
• Normal coolant operating range is 203°F (95°C) (Thermostat Start to Open) to 240° F (115°C).
• The Overheat chime should come on somewhere around 248°F (120°C),
• Derate actually begins for coolant above 235°F (112°C). However it wouldn't be observable by the customer until it further derates at 243°F (117°/118°C).
• Above 248°F (120°C) it will go into complete derate.
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LongTimeListener

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I'm not a diesel buyer, but I'm happy to find this thread of people who worry about the same things I do. I've long wondered about airflow/overheating with some of the bumper/light set-ups I see out there. I mean, maybe this stuff is all engineered in a way that doesn't obstruct airflow, but I'd be surprised. Engine cooling is kind of important, regardless of which engine you're running.

There's a reason Jeep had to engineer slightly wider front grille slats on the Gladiator to improve its cooling and tow rating. There's not a lot of frontal area to work with on these rigs.

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MeekoDiesel

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As LongTimeListener mentioned above, airflow across the radiator is what it’s all about. That’s all the electric fan is doing when it kicks on. I would encourage anyone who is towing in extreme terrain (high heat, high elevation, both) to swap their grille inserts for the gladiator ones. I did that to my JLUD and I’ve not run into any coolant temps higher than the 220s.
The inserts are cheap, they are 3 pieces and can be swapped out in about 30 minutes using hand tools.

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AZ-Chris

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Engine coolant temperature isn't the issue . . . engine oil temperature runs as much as 20 to 30 degrees hotter than coolant in virtually any circumstance.
 

Sydwaiz

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As LongTimeListener mentioned above, airflow across the radiator is what it’s all about. That’s all the electric fan is doing when it kicks on. I would encourage anyone who is towing in extreme terrain (high heat, high elevation, both) to swap their grille inserts for the gladiator ones. I did that to my JLUD and I’ve not run into any coolant temps higher than the 220s.
The inserts are cheap, they are 3 pieces and can be swapped out in about 30 minutes using hand tools.

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Those of us with the front trail cam already have the larger grill inserts. Ascending a grade in 115 degree heat doing 75-80mph, I saw temps exceed 240 degrees. Never noticed a power loss other than my foot backing off the throttle to get out of the boost. Once I did that, temps dropped drastically.
 

GSLSE21B

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Grille insert will do nothing for the little baby fiat radiator they are using .
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NCJL

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Just looked at my coolant tank. It has a 21psi cap. With a 50/50 coolant mix, plus 21psi, the boiling point is 286 degrees for the cooling system.


50/50 equals 223 boiling point.
21psi x 3 equals 63 additional degrees.
223 plus 63 equals 286 degrees.

I’ve also heard the manufacturer blends do a little better.

I’ve never seen my coolant temps above 244 degrees. I Tow a 4K trailer.
 

houseofdiesel

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I just got off the phone with BulletProof Diesel and if there are any people in the Mesa, AZ or SouthWest region that have the means to allow them to take a look at their vehicle this is something they are very interested in helping us find a solution for.

I'm all about looking for companies that have the proper tools, network, and ability to find long lasting and overkilled solutions to issues that we have with our diesel vehicles. Could there be a cheap way to cool the oil system and tap into the existing housing? Maybe, but with a $60k+ investment I'd rather try and find a solution that goes through some serious engineering, research, and development. I've blown an oil line on a rig before on the freeway and it is no fun. And there is no shortage of people having issues of leaks or other issues with cheaper competitors products. I've hauled hundreds of thousands of miles however personally with BulletProofs products in the most extreme conditions and never had an issue from one of their products.

So if there is a couple of people closer than me that can loan them their Gladiator and/or Wrangler for a couple days hopefully they can come up with something to help us get these temps under control and enjoy our EcoDiesels without worrying about damage to the motors, being stranded somewhere, and assure the longevity of our investment.

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houseofdiesel

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Someone posted pics earlier this week of the oil temps and it looks very similar to the inefficient oil cooling system on the 6.0 Powerstroke that drives up coolant temps. In the App/Offroad section of our head unit there are gauges that allow us to view our coolant and engine temps. I haul in the SouthWest and West coast so I have experienced many conditions like this with my HD trucks of almost all makes. It has gotten even worse since going to thinner oils and further EPA regulations since the manufacturers are trying to engineer modern diesels to operate at such high temps. The engine is basically already operating at it's threshold. Not good for the longevity of parts.

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AZ-Chris

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I just got off the phone with BulletProof Diesel and if there are any people in the Mesa, AZ or SouthWest region that have the means to allow them to take a look at their vehicle this is something they are very interested in helping us find a solution for.

I'm all about looking for companies that have the proper tools, network, and ability to find long lasting and overkilled solutions to issues that we have with our diesel vehicles. Could there be a cheap way to cool the oil system and tap into the existing housing? Maybe, but with a $60k+ investment I'd rather try and find a solution that goes through some serious engineering, research, and development. I've blown an oil line on a rig before on the freeway and it is no fun. And there is no shortage of people having issues of leaks or other issues with cheaper competitors products. I've hauled hundreds of thousands of miles however personally with BulletProofs products in the most extreme conditions and never had an issue from one of their products.

So if there is a couple of people closer than me that can loan them their Gladiator and/or Wrangler for a couple days hopefully they can come up with something to help us get these temps under control and enjoy our EcoDiesels without worrying about damage to the motors, being stranded somewhere, and assure the longevity of our investment.

[email protected]
I'll give them a call and see if I can move this along . . .

Thank you for finding these guys.
 
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AZ-Chris

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I will be meeting with the Bullet Proof Diesel folks next Friday, Aug. 6
 

NCJL

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Just thinking.
Agree all the manufacturers use heat to help with emissions. The more power and torque you need the higher the emissions go and the higher the heat needs to be.

With my ED temps have only risen when pulling a long grade at max GCWR. Coolant temps have gotten to 244 degrees on two separate occasions. The fan kicked in and kept the temps from continuing to rise. Ambient temps for one pull was 90 and the other 112. Many other long grade pulls have raised the temps to the 230 degree range. Driving style, RPM’s, play a huge roll with engine temps. More so than ambient temps.

To try and control the heat, I would think you would need to outsmart the ECU or reprogram the ECU. Lowering the heat without the ECU’s permission is not going to be liked.

Lowering the heat and not lowering the emissions at the same time will create more stress on the emissions related parts. You would still end up with a not for longevity set up. You would just be changing what would most likely fail first.

Nobody has put more time, money and research into the ED than Jeep/FCA.

The 2 occasions that raised the temps to 244 equaled about 14 miles of driving. I have about 12K miles on my ED. About half of that towing at max GCWR. For me, I’ll change my driving style for 14 miles of driving rather than try to control temps that are designed by the manufacturer.

To truly control the temps for a better more reliable system, a complete delete of the emissions would be needed.

Maybe just turning on the fan sooner would be the simplest way to control engine temps.
 

Plongson

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I think your entire theory is valid and I agree...but I'm not gonna go much further to chase heat reduction.

My approach has been...
1.) Use the Tazer with the ability to operate the fans manually
2.) Make the hood vents functional (see my photos in this post)
3.) When all else fails, back off the throttle when things start to creep up

The heat issue "is what it is"...I'm fully aware of it and just deal with it.

Another approach would be to pull the engine and adapt in another little early diesel all hot-rodded with crazy engine controls, wazoo turbo's and massive injectors...LOL Can you imagine??

Just dream'n...HEY, IT COULD HAPPEN!!! But if I blow this thing up, it would be cheaper than replacing this Italian job...
 

AZ-Chris

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I just flashed my Tazer JL mini to the latest firmware (v11.2.8) . . . so now I have the ability to use "Cooldown Mode" while the Jeep is running. Cooldown Mode, I believe, is where the Tazer tricks the ECU by reporting the Transmission temperature as 229F causing the engine cooling fans to run on High while the engine is running. Earlier firmware versions of the Tazer only allowed Cooldown Mode after the engine was shut off, and ran until it was intentionally shutoff by the driver, or until the battery voltage dropped below 11 V.

To activate Cooldown Mode, you need to simultaneously press the Right arrow button on the left-side steering wheel cluster, and the Cruise Cancel button on the right-side steering wheel cluster. When activated, you just need to remember that you will no longer see an accurate temperature reading for the Transmission, as it will read 229 F according to the Tazer manual, though when I tested it, the Transmission temperature read 231 F. All other gauges report accurately.

I need to take another trip up to the Arizona high country to see how effective this is at cooling Oil temperatures.
 
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