Is it possible to just flip the soft top back and drive?

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TaxPhan

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Holy [email protected]! I should have known better than to open up this thread. Didn't take long for Ronnie to demonstrate how much better at law he is than the rest of the world. In his court, he hopes that by talking, talking, and talking, his opponents will just give up. Someone should open Microsoft Word, copy and paste all of his posts, and let us know how many pages in all. Dissertation level? I'm still not sure he's persuaded anyone.

I've used the sunrider position numerous times with and without windows in. Never a problem. If I do have a problem someday, I'll put new windows onto my list of things my wife doesn't think I need.
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Dvol

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Holy crap...word walls.. I’ve had my Sunrider open windows in on my JKU with 0 issues. I also run it open windows in the majority of the time. It’s designed for either postion, windows in or out..

I’ve Had years of Sunrider use and no issues. Current Sunrider top with Zero issues. If it wasn’t ment to open up it wouldn’t.. Shocker I know..

Edit: If your skeerd that the windows will magically fly out then just remove them. It’s super easy takes little time...
 
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Rahneld

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You're right it will not matter to him. But we will be treated to a 4000 word essay on how the dealers are wrong.

I have met plenty of people that like to hear themselves talk but this is the first that likes to hear the clickity-clack of their keyboard.
Dealerships often don't know or care. They're interested in moving product and mother FCA doesn't enforce this for the case law I mentioned. Might someone be able to take action against a dealer: sure--but they're not FCA's deep pockets.

Bestop makes the top for FCA and is then out of the loop. You buy it and parts for it from FCA, who supports and is responsible for it.

@Snayte: one thing I'd like more than you not reading my posts is not having to make them after every idiot comes here thinking they know more than FCA: who has expressly given their position here and they still don't shut up, as well as case law. Keeping windows in in Sunrider mode is at owner risk: FCA doesn't advise it.

I respond because I want people armed with the correct information upon which to make a decision. My ego is not at issue: neither bruised nor to hear myself speak.

Go blame the trolls who can't accept this. If we were chatting about opinion based topics, like who makes the best tires: I'd say my piece and let others have their opinions, unless, maybe, something they said was wrong, and could affect a novice's purchase decision.

Sorry for trying to keep the board a factual resource where indicated.
 

Rahneld

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Holy [email protected]! I should have known better than to open up this thread. Didn't take long for Ronnie to demonstrate how much better at law he is than the rest of the world. In his court, he hopes that by talking, talking, and talking, his opponents will just give up. Someone should open Microsoft Word, copy and paste all of his posts, and let us know how many pages in all. Dissertation level? I'm still not sure he's persuaded anyone.

I've used the sunrider position numerous times with and without windows in. Never a problem. If I do have a problem someday, I'll put new windows onto my list of things my wife doesn't think I need.
Peter..educate us with your better take on this subject matter. People who differ from the fact I put forth are not my opponents. I simply quote law and FCA who has come on to this board and given their express explanation on this matter--and what do dissenters say...

"FCA is wrong."

Let me help you understand why that's moronic. In this situation, FCA gets to set the rules on how to properly operate their rig....you being on your own if you ignore such guidelines.

You in turn are free to choose to buy the rig or not, or read/respond to this thread. But what you can't do is say the manufacturer is wrong.

Tell me, if I cited for you the actually case law....the defining cases that has the owner's manual trumping all else, would you then agree to only post your two cents if you have facts to offer?

Don't like the facts, shoot the messenger...it's as old as the flood. What to you think @TaxPhan that FCA is going to come out and say, "you know what, we changed our stance, leave the windows in, take them out, because we (FCA) enjoy the costs associated with replacing them if damaged, or paying millions of dollar death benefits to a motorist who gets hit with dislodged windows."

For me to be "wrong," this is what you would need to think.

Hint: attack how unlikely this damage is. Say I'm being pedantic when I keep the windows in often and have repeated this.

This is about what's right and wrong from a warranty and tort liability standpoint, not about odds.

You have a nice day now, and one favor.

If you come to the board seeking accurate answers to questions, and someone gives you a wrong one, and nobody says otherwise, and you logically act well, but on otherwise bad information and end up with a bad outcome, do keep it to yourself.
 

Rahneld

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Holy crap...word walls.. I’ve had my Sunrider open windows in on my JKU with 0 issues. I also run it open windows in the majority of the time. It’s designed for either postion, windows in or out..

I’ve Had years of Sunrider use and no issues. Current Sunrider top with Zero issues. If it wasn’t ment to open up it wouldn’t.. Shocker I know..

Edit: If your skeerd that the windows will magically fly out then just remove them. It’s super easy takes little time...
Jim: understand...this is about who's on the hook if the "fit hits the shan" on a JL, not the likelihood of that happening.

People knowing this allows them to make their own risk assessment, which I am the first to think is minimal. I fully conceded that FCA's attorneys had them say this to reduce risk exposure, as it would not affect sales.
 

Lou Bunn

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Ronnie, you would get out of your car and argue with a sign post as my late granddad with say. The sad fact that you don't seem to grasp is that no one has replied anything positive to you and you still keep barking at the moon. I know several people on other forums I wish you would meet, I'm sure there's a topic you all could disagree about and spend countless hours going back and forth. Or maybe it's you on those?? I didn't think about that. I'm sure you'll come back with why I'm such a jerk and such but like everything you post, it just gives me a chuckle.
 
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Ronnie S

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I tried the sun rider position yesterday (with windows in) and loved it! I didn’t feel any weird wind or abnormal cabin pressure. Windows held just fine. I drive all the way up to 60 mph. To me this is so cool cuz I can leave work and flip the top back and go!
 

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Dealerships often don't know or care. They're interested in moving product and mother FCA doesn't enforce this for the case law I mentioned. Might someone be able to take action against a dealer: sure--but they're not FCA's deep pockets.

Bestop makes the top for FCA and is then out of the loop. You buy it and parts for it from FCA, who supports and is responsible for it.

@Snayte: one thing I'd like more than you not reading my posts is not having to make them after every idiot comes here thinking they know more than FCA: who has expressly given their position here and they still don't shut up, as well as case law. Keeping windows in in Sunrider mode is at owner risk: FCA doesn't advise it.

I respond because I want people armed with the correct information upon which to make a decision. My ego is not at issue: neither bruised nor to hear myself speak.

Go blame the trolls who can't accept this. If we were chatting about opinion based topics, like who makes the best tires: I'd say my piece and let others have their opinions, unless, maybe, something they said was wrong, and could affect a novice's purchase decision.

Sorry for trying to keep the board a factual resource where indicated.
I really do not believe anyone is asking you to make additional posts.

You have given your opinion and people have chosen the action they are going to take. You yourself said you run in a non FCA approved configuration. Why beat the subject to death, you are not going to change any minds. No one is going to blame you if they have an issue with their windows ejecting. You do not bear any responsibility here.

Hell, people are probably trolling you to get you to respond.

Just let it go man...
 

TaxPhan

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I really do not believe anyone is asking you to make additional posts.

You have given your opinion and people have chosen the action they are going to take. You yourself said you run in a non FCA approved configuration. Why beat the subject to death, you are not going to change any minds. No one is going to blame you if they have an issue with their windows ejecting. You do not bear any responsibility here.

Hell, people are probably trolling you to get you to respond.

Just let it go man...
Dude has to be bored out of his mind or something, I can't think of any other reason why he's almost written a dissertation on the subject throughout the threads. I kind of feel bad for him. Maybe he's lonely?
 

mwilk012

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Or maybe it's the level of misinformation passed in threads like this that makes him state very plainly and clearly what the truth is? It's not complicated.
 

digitalbliss

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Or maybe it's the level of misinformation passed in threads like this that makes him state very plainly and clearly what the truth is? It's not complicated.
You should put that blame on Jeep, not members of the forum.
 

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Anyone gone 100mph yet and not lost their windows?
 

Rahneld

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I really do not believe anyone is asking you to make additional posts.

You have given your opinion and people have chosen the action they are going to take. You yourself said you run in a non FCA approved configuration. Why beat the subject to death, you are not going to change any minds. No one is going to blame you if they have an issue with their windows ejecting. You do not bear any responsibility here.

Hell, people are probably trolling you to get you to respond.

Just let it go man...
So the criteria around here for posting is one where you must be solicited first?

@Snayte, I already made it clear why I counter--which has to do with the very reason you ask. And it's not my opinion. It's a legal one of case law I simply quote. It is decided law.

People don't read entire threads, if they did, I'd only need to speak once and you'd need not ask this question as I've already given the answer multiple times. Idiots with egos (not directed at you) come here telling people not in the know that "this" is the way to handle the situation. They poorly advise others because they think they're right and can't stand being corrected.

Good decision making is based on the cost multiplied by the probability: a.k.a. expected cost. The cost of the windows dislogding at high speeds and causing damage to people and property is minimal but, if it happens it's a huge outlay that neither FCA nor your insurance will cover. People need to know this so they can gauge their own adversion to risk against this fact. They need to know that some laminated card in their JLs about Sunrider usage that doesn't comport with the Owner's Manual and refers to it isn't legally binding. I think the expected cost her minimal, so I don't sometimes remove the soft windows like you said; but that's me.

Again: you and others need to understand that this isn't my opinion. It's one of judges and juries that I quote as fact.

The people who need to "let it go" are the ones who continue to not accept this reality about what is correct and who is on the hook for damages. If floors me that @JeepCares can come the bboard and say, "go with the manual," which says to remove the windows, and morons respond essentially, "FCA, who gets to make the rules, is wrong here, and I am correct."

That what's unbelievable IMHO.
 

Shenanigunz

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I do it occasionally, but if I am going to go through the trouble of taking out the windows, I am folding the entire top back, not just to the sunrider position.

anyways, yes a few times, last night was going 70 on the eway with the windows in.
 

Rahneld

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Ronnie, you would get out of your car and argue with a sign post as my late granddad with say. The sad fact that you don't seem to grasp is that no one has replied anything positive to you and you still keep barking at the moon. I know several people on other forums I wish you would meet, I'm sure there's a topic you all could disagree about and spend countless hours going back and forth. Or maybe it's you on those?? I didn't think about that. I'm sure you'll come back with why I'm such a jerk and such but like everything you post, it just gives me a chuckle.
I don't live for people's reaction to my posts. I care about the posts being factual so that the novice who comes to the bboard leaves with accurate information on which to make their own decisions.

I know this sounds arrogant but there is no disagreement here. Legally, the owner's manual guidance trumps all if, by well established case law, supporting materials refer to the owner's manual for complete information, and the owner's manual refers to know other operational (not service) manual.

I don't think you're a jerk. I think you misunderstand that this isn't about popularity nor barking at the moon. The latter is pointless. My point is to make sure that novices who come here for accurate information don't follow the crap of egotistical posters who think a placard in the JL with countering information to, and refers to the owner's manual is correct and FCA, who has come to the board and said, "refer to the owner's manual," are wrong.

And it's a lot more than who is right. This is not a pissing match. It is about who pays if the fit hits the shan...which is the vehicle operator, out of pocket, not FCA, and not their insurance company.

These odds are small, but these costs are catastrophic if property or lives are damaged from say a high speed dislodging of the windows.

If this was opinion, I would have stopped at my first post.
 
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