Is 470 tq only available in hybrid mode?

timuh60

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From what I understand the max hp and tq are only available in hybrid mode when both electric and gas modes are working together. I have seen people speculate on how long the battery charge lasts while in hybrid mode. So if the biggest draw to the 4xe is the increased power, is that power only available for a limited amount of time when operating? When the battery is discharged all you have is a 2.0 pulling a heavier rig.
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MARSHMELLA

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You are correct. But the 2.0T is more than capable of towing the max tow rate of 3,500 lbs. I’m not sure what the 4Xe max tow is, but a vehicles towing capability is mostly factored in by its suspension and frame, not the HP and torque so much.
 
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timuh60

timuh60

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When I said heavier rig I was actually talking about a heavier jeep, not a trailer. Sorry for the mislead. :)
 

zeebo56

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When I said heavier rig I was actually talking about a heavier jeep, not a trailer. Sorry for the mislead. :)
Isnt the base weight like 500 lbs more or something? so yeah the 2.0 would take over I would assume. Seems like something you would notice, thats a decent amount of weight.
 

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Isnt the base weight like 500 lbs more or something? so yeah the 2.0 would take over I would assume. Seems like something you would notice, thats a decent amount of weight.
Looks like the mpg on gas only is about 2mpg less than the turbo four by itself, so looks like it did have an impact.
 

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... I have seen people speculate on how long the battery charge lasts while in hybrid mode.
Amazing this number isn't published well before production even started. I guess the answer would be 'it varies' but at least we'd have an idea if they had released a few so that online outfits could test them. Also, does the total power output vary with battery charge level? IE: is power different when the battery is at 90% charge versus 25% charge?
 

PriceForFlight

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From what I understand the max hp and tq are only available in hybrid mode when both electric and gas modes are working together. I have seen people speculate on how long the battery charge lasts while in hybrid mode. So if the biggest draw to the 4xe is the increased power, is that power only available for a limited amount of time when operating? When the battery is discharged all you have is a 2.0 pulling a heavier rig.
No, the battery is never fully depleted. It is continuously recharging itself while you drive while you are in hybrid mode.

But, it you are in full electric mode, you will only have the power of the electric motor itself.
 

dudemind

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The answer is technically yes, but you're going to be "in hybrid mode" way more often than not. Like, pretty much all the time.

There's quite a bit of misinformation floating around regarding just what "hybrid mode" means, probably from mystified folks who have never owned a hybrid.

A lot of people in this sub-forum seem to think that hybrid mode means the electric charge will be fully depleted, and then will be entirely absent from the system until you perform a sufficient amount of coasting or braking in order to recapture some of that energy. The reality is that the gas engine will be used to keep the hybrid battery at a software-determined optimum charge level whenever the performance demands are low enough to allow for it. I don't know how Jeep's software will map this out, but on our 2009 Escape Hybrid, 2019 Niro, and the 2020 Rav4 Prime we briefly owned, most normal, non-spirited driving means/meant the traction battery stayed well above 50-60% charged pretty much at all times. No, you absolutely do not need to be riding the brakes on several miles of downhill to keep the battery sufficiently charged for your next burst of speed.

The 4xe page does have specific language stating "The Max Regeneration feature remaps the accelerator pedal to command more aggressive regen at low pedal positions.". This wording tells me that the 4xe should act similarly to those other vehicles mentioned above (and as in every other hybrid I've ever driven), and that it further has the ability to make that effect more pronounced. In other words, it should behave like any other modern hybrid. No need to overthink it "because it's a Jeep".

In short, even when you're on the gas pedal, the vehicle will attempt to provide some charge to the battery if and when it can. What this means is that in most normal driving situations, you should almost always have some charge in the traction battery to pull the 470 ft-lb of torque as needed.

Of course, when you're driving very aggressively for long periods of time, you could potentially burn through a bunch of that needed charge pretty quickly. In those situations, the energy demands from the traction battery are much higher than can be replenished by the engine, and the software might decide that you need all the power you're asking for, rather than siphoning some of that off for the task of charging the hybrid battery. In that rare case, yes, you will run out of charge and the 4xe will turn into a "normal" 2.0T with a bit of extra weight. In fact, depending on the software implementation, it might be slightly worse even than just a heavier 2.0T, because the vehicle may decide that the need to top off the battery takes higher priority than your demand for ever more power. Our Escape Hybrid is guilty of this, and in the rare instances where Road-Rage-Me takes over and I briefly kill the battery off, the vehicle punishes me by robbing me of all the electric motor power as well as some of the gas engine power as it tries to get back to its happy place (and I to mine) while I'm still going at it. But again: rare.

Unless you're driving around everywhere with the skinny pedal pinned to the floor, you should expect to have that power on tap pretty much whenever you need it.
 
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I'll speculate as much as the rest of us. I've been under the assumption that hybrid mode isn't like "use the battery and then the ICE". I think it's more keeping the batter ready as reserve power. So in daily driving I think the battery tends to stay in about the same level of charge. If you accelerate easy, it will try to use some energy to only accelerate with the motor instead of the increasing the gas to the ICE. And maybe that's enough to get you to the next gear without having had to rev the ICE. Then when you slow it can recapture some energy. Of course if you floor it, then motor and ICE need to give it their all, but presumably you're only needing that full power for a brief time. So there will be plenty of time after that from varied driving to recapture some energy to make up for it. I don't think the average person driving would need the full HP/TQ enough to actually drain down the battery in hybrid mode. Or it's possible I am completely wrong about how the system works. LOL

Edit: Haha and then right after I post I see the above post.
 

PriceForFlight

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I'll speculate as much as the rest of us. I've been under the assumption that hybrid mode isn't like "use the battery and then the ICE". I think it's more keeping the batter ready as reserve power. So in daily driving I think the battery tends to stay in about the same level of charge. If you accelerate easy, it will try to use some energy to only accelerate with the motor instead of the increasing the gas to the ICE. And maybe that's enough to get you to the next gear without having had to rev the ICE. Then when you slow it can recapture some energy. Of course if you floor it, then motor and ICE need to give it their all, but presumably you're only needing that full power for a brief time. So there will be plenty of time after that from varied driving to recapture some energy to make up for it. I don't think the average person driving would need the full HP/TQ enough to actually drain down the battery in hybrid mode. Or it's possible I am completely wrong about how the system works. LOL

Edit: Haha and then right after I post I see the above post.
No reason to speculate, the FCA Head of Global Propulsion Systems explains the entire Wrangler 4XE propulsion system in this video:

 

dudemind

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Also, does the total power output vary with battery charge level? IE: is power different when the battery is at 90% charge versus 25% charge?
From a pure physics standpoint, yes, the power level will vary. Batteries are rated in nominal voltages, but the actual voltage you have in your pack will vary in relation to its state of charge. For example, a 52V e-bike battery actually has around 59 volts when charged to capacity and and around 42 volts when fully depleted. Since the voltage is directly related to power (P = V*I), there is more power being pushed out by the motor when there's more voltage being supplied. The graph of voltage-versus-state-of-charge isn't linear, but rather drops dramatically at both the top and bottom end, with a flatter and more gentle slope for most of the middle of the charge range. Meaning you have a ton of extra power for the top few % of charge, and also a ton less for the bottom few %, but a mostly stable amount for most of the battery's charge.

That said, my best guess is that Jeep would have implemented software controls to account for all of this. Two things: 1) The actual voltage supplied to the motor might be stabilized at a specific level based on throttle input, and I think this is very likely. 2) The software may prevent the battery from ever reaching the top/bottom extremes of its charge, as this is where irreversible damage to the battery begins to set in (however slow/gradual it may be). Meaning, for our intents and purposes, I would expect that the 470lb-ft of torque (or whatever portion thereof supplied by the electric motor) should remain fairly stable, regardless of charge level (see comment in previous paragraph RE: middle part of charge range). At least, it shouldn't vary much more than a normal ICE will vary based on temperature/elevation/etc.
 
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Per the video, which has been posted many times including above, the E-Torque system keeps enough charge in the battery for acceleration. He did say, if you are towing for a distance, it may deplete enough at some point. The poster, imo, was talking about basic acceleration. It should always be there for that.
 

dalema

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From what I understand the max hp and tq are only available in hybrid mode when both electric and gas modes are working together. I have seen people speculate on how long the battery charge lasts while in hybrid mode. So if the biggest draw to the 4xe is the increased power, is that power only available for a limited amount of time when operating? When the battery is discharged all you have is a 2.0 pulling a heavier rig.
Great question as I’ve been wondering the same, particularly when dragging around some extra weight.

which is why I’m going to wait until I can drive one and see how it performs
 

Asterix2112

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One thing I want to try (after the gas engine if fully broken in) is run the car down in Hybrid mode, find an open straight road, then just do 0-60 runs back and forth and time them.

It should be around 6 sec when the battery is charged. I ASSUME that the battery will still help when needed (like flooring it) after hybrid more is 'over', but how long will it continue for? At some point the battery will be down to a point where the software will say, "no more, your too low, the gas engine is on it's own now."

The other way would be on a big hill in low and do the same kind of test.

This is one of the biggest question marks I wonder about. The more real world example is I am taking a long hundreds of miles trip on the Interstate. The battery is long out of hybrid more and just running gas engine. I need to suddenly go from 55 to 80mph to pass a truck up a hill. Is that battery going to be kicking in to help when I floor it for that because it's keeping a decent reserve (and constantly recharging a bit with braking)? I certainly HOPE so. I'm betting $50k on it!
 

dunehole

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This is one of the biggest question marks I wonder about. The more real world example is I am taking a long hundreds of miles trip on the Interstate. The battery is long out of hybrid more and just running gas engine. I need to suddenly go from 55 to 80mph to pass a truck up a hill. Is that battery going to be kicking in to help when I floor it for that because it's keeping a decent reserve (and constantly recharging a bit with braking)? I certainly HOPE so. I'm betting $50k on it!
The 4XE Owners Manual Supplement states that the battery will always keep enough reserve to do just what you are asking of it here.
 
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