Information on the automatic transmission at 60k miles

[Geronimo]

I haven't myself nor have heard of anyone.

I kept and eye on engine and trans temp while running high country passes and rock crawling. I was amazed that both actually ran cooler than they do out on the open freeway at 70 mph. I was pleasantly surprised. We also have a complete Rock Hard belly pan which I thought may raise temps, it did not. Very Kewl.

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[_olllllllo_]

I have always changed my transmission fluid every 50k miles, even the manual transmission. I also believe in the complete change on the automatic. Have never had a transmission failure of any kind in 50 years. Also am a big fan of Amsoil which I have been using for the past 35+ years. Understanding this transmission has been around for a while and used on other vehicles I find it hard to believe only mopar transmission fluid has to be used. Amsoil said they have fluid for this transmission. Will not need to change my transmission fluid for awhile so I will be doing a lot more research on fluids as well as seeing if I can make up a dipstick for the transmission.

I have a manual and changed the fluid the first time at 25,000 miles and will do it again at 50,000. I also use Amsoil and I actually noticed about a 1 mpg increase after doing the tranny and transfer case. It may have been due to the system wearing in and becoming more efficient, but it was weird. I do appreciate the the manual tranny and transfer case both take ATF and I do them at the same time.

 

[mwilk012]

In case anyone is wondering what the factory fluid looks like, it’s green.

 

[blnewt]

In case anyone is wondering what the factory fluid looks like, it’s green.

uh oh, dealer techs might think it's anti-freeze!

 

[mwilk012]

uh oh, dealer techs might think it's anti-freeze!

Not at this price point they won’t. The lube techs are not getting unrestricted access to this stuff.

 

[MarkM]

I love these forums and all you guys with your input! Thanks for the expertise.

I realized this thread is older, but if anyone is still following it, your input is welcome.

So, on that note, here is my question. Has anyone considered an aftermarket aluminum pan that is finned? Or, as I saw on a GMC forum, adding fins to a pan. Odd, but it worked!

The reason I ask is two-fold. Number one, do the fins actually help enough to make the cost (ouch) worthwhile? I am glad that the JL pan is steel, which helps with cooling when compared to the plastic pan, but it was the minimum the designers could do due to cost reasons. Even if it lowered temps 10 degrees, that is helpful to the life/quality of the oil. Also, is the transmission too far up in the chassis to work due to whatever airflow it gets?

The detached filter in the JL is great in that the unitized pan/filter concept to me is borderline psychopath. From a manufacturing point, I get it, but the boys in Toledo aren't the ones dealing long term with keeping on top of fluid life issues. I see room for improvement here, I am just pondering how it will work with the deeper pan, which has removable filters.

Also, the aftermarket pans can be had with higher capacity, like 2 Quarts more than the factory pan. That to me seems advantageous because more fluid helps with the longevity and heat. It also has a somewhat lower saturation of dirt, clutch particles, etc. I have figured out the pan will fit with most after market skid plates. This might be a good point as well as on the trail, airflow around the transmission is lower, but there is still greater surface area to release heat. I look at is good on the trail and better on the highway, which my Sahara will see more of anyhow.

I wouldn’t suggest it to lengthen or skip fluid changes, but as a way to keep the fluid a little cleaner and to slow the breakdown from thermal stresses.

Basically, I would still do changes every 50k or so, I just want to keep the fluid in better shape until then. This is the thought process I am having, get the pan or use those costs to do ATF changes at a lower interval.

The added fins were an a GMC Sierra. He bought a second steel pan and brazed 1” steel tubes down the long axis of the pan, about an inch apart. On the road with a scan tool, he was seeing 15-17 degree lower temps. Food for thought.


Thanks,

Mark

 

[Old Dogger]

I replace our automatic transmissions oil and filters every 50,000 miles. That is in all of the different vehicles that we have owned. Our asphalt gets very hot in AZ. That heat radiates into the transmission pan. So I don't care what the factory recommends, because ours will get changed.

 

[blnewt]

Nice post @MarkM
I will be doing the FSM procedure for ATF change at 50k, the best price I've found for the full pan/filter/gasket combo is around $100 IIRC, not too bad. I may just get the filter though since it's about $40 and from all I've read the gasket should still be ok to reuse.

Another plan might be just to get the whole pan combo and have it on hand in case the gasket needs to be replaced and to have the extra pan just in case of calamity

I have full DIY skids, I made the oil pan skid wider than aftermarket pans to better protect the ATF cooling lines. Have monitored my trans temps since I added the skids and haven't noticed any noticeable changes. Having the full skids probably would negate some of the cooling advantages w/ the finned aluminum pan. The extra capacity is nice but TBH servicing the ATF at 50k intervals should work well for getting excellent life/performance from the ZF transmission.

I believe @CarbonSteel got that aluminum pan, maybe he can chime in there.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Nice post @MarkM
I will be doing the FSM procedure for ATF change at 50k, the best price I've found for the full pan/filter/gasket combo is around $100 IIRC, not too bad. I may just get the filter though since it's about $40 and from all I've read the gasket should still be ok to reuse.

Another plan might be just to get the whole pan combo and have it on hand in case the gasket needs to be replaced and to have the extra pan just in case of calamity

I have full DIY skids, I made the oil pan skid wider than aftermarket pans to better protect the ATF cooling lines. Have monitored my trans temps since I added the skids and haven't noticed any noticeable changes. Having the full skids probably would negate some of the cooling advantages w/ the finned aluminum pan. The extra capacity is nice but TBH servicing the ATF at 50k intervals should work well for getting excellent life/performance from the ZF transmission.

I believe @CarbonSteel got that aluminum pan, maybe he can chime in there.

I have the PPE pan (which I test-fitted during my fluid/filter change) and it will not fit the 3.6L without some modifications to the cooling fins on the pan. I did not see that note when I bought it or I probably would not have. PPE should be modifying these pans to fit the 3.6L when they are being made and not leave it to the owner to do it.

Lame as hell...

 

[CarbonSteel]

I love these forums and all you guys with your input! Thanks for the expertise.

I realized this thread is older, but if anyone is still following it, your input is welcome.

So, on that note, here is my question. Has anyone considered an aftermarket aluminum pan that is finned? Or, as I saw on a GMC forum, adding fins to a pan. Odd, but it worked!

The reason I ask is two-fold. Number one, do the fins actually help enough to make the cost (ouch) worthwhile? I am glad that the JL pan is steel, which helps with cooling when compared to the plastic pan, but it was the minimum the designers could do due to cost reasons. Even if it lowered temps 10 degrees, that is helpful to the life/quality of the oil. Also, is the transmission too far up in the chassis to work due to whatever airflow it gets?

The detached filter in the JL is great in that the unitized pan/filter concept to me is borderline psychopath. From a manufacturing point, I get it, but the boys in Toledo aren't the ones dealing long term with keeping on top of fluid life issues. I see room for improvement here, I am just pondering how it will work with the deeper pan, which has removable filters.

Also, the aftermarket pans can be had with higher capacity, like 2 Quarts more than the factory pan. That to me seems advantageous because more fluid helps with the longevity and heat. It also has a somewhat lower saturation of dirt, clutch particles, etc. I have figured out the pan will fit with most after market skid plates. This might be a good point as well as on the trail, airflow around the transmission is lower, but there is still greater surface area to release heat. I look at is good on the trail and better on the highway, which my Sahara will see more of anyhow.

I wouldn’t suggest it to lengthen or skip fluid changes, but as a way to keep the fluid a little cleaner and to slow the breakdown from thermal stresses.

Basically, I would still do changes every 50k or so, I just want to keep the fluid in better shape until then. This is the thought process I am having, get the pan or use those costs to do ATF changes at a lower interval.

The added fins were an a GMC Sierra. He bought a second steel pan and brazed 1” steel tubes down the long axis of the pan, about an inch apart. On the road with a scan tool, he was seeing 15-17 degree lower temps. Food for thought.


Thanks,

Mark

@MarkM - I just completed a filter and fluid change (you can read about it here - https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/zf8-50k-mile-transmission-service.94302/)

I also have the PPE pan, but have not installed it because it will not fit a 3.6L without modifying the pan or the exhaust pipe which crosses over under the pan.

I am running full @Metalcloak skid plates and therefore, there is minimal (if any) air flow moving across the pan to aid in cooling. There are two advantages and two disadvantages to the PPE pan:

Advantages:

1. It holds between 1.5 to 2.0 additional quarts of fluid. A filter/fluid change takes about 4 quarts so this pan would bump you to six.
2. It has a magnetic drain plug which makes dumping the fluid a simple and non-messy task.

Disadvantages:

1. The filter for this pan is PPE proprietary. The OEM Mopar filter will not fit this pan.
2. The fins have to be trimmed down to almost the flat surface of the main part of the pan to squeeze between the transmission flange and exhaust pipe.

I have not decided what I will do with the one that I bought (as yet).

 

[MarkM]

Nice post @MarkM
I will be doing the FSM procedure for ATF change at 50k, the best price I've found for the full pan/filter/gasket combo is around $100 IIRC, not too bad. I may just get the filter though since it's about $40 and from all I've read the gasket should still be ok to reuse.

Another plan might be just to get the whole pan combo and have it on hand in case the gasket needs to be replaced and to have the extra pan just in case of calamity

I have full DIY skids, I made the oil pan skid wider than aftermarket pans to better protect the ATF cooling lines. Have monitored my trans temps since I added the skids and haven't noticed any noticeable changes. Having the full skids probably would negate some of the cooling advantages w/ the finned aluminum pan. The extra capacity is nice but TBH servicing the ATF at 50k intervals should work well for getting excellent life/performance from the ZF transmission.

I believe @CarbonSteel got that aluminum pan, maybe he can chime in there.

Thanks, Brad,
$100 is not bad for the whole setup. An extra pan isn't a bad idea, part of dealing with a calamity is that you usually never plan one! I do like that the JL has a metal pan and detachable filter. I fear the plastic would crack too easily, even in a minor scrape or impact, but the steel pan would bend and flex some. At least enough, hopefully, that it won't just bleed out immediately should a calamity rear it's ugly head!

The transmissions are pretty far up, there are a lot of other things to hit and clear first, but an errant branch getting kicked up could be, well, a calamity!

The steel pan also transfers heat better, which is what I am thinking is a priority. Trans temps are hard on oil and I am curious how much the OEM cooler helps. I suspect a lot off-road as there is still a cooler that helps make up for lack of air flow. The fans will help with heat that is put into the coolant.

Thanks for the input on the temps with the skid plates. I would like to see pics of your setup. I am a fan of home-made goodies. I understand what you are saying about the skids and the fins, that is the part I am still trying to figure out. With the larger skids, airflow is impacted when crawling, in addition to effects of vehicle, but if the temps appear to be the same, that is worth consideration. It looks like the fins could give about double the cooling area.

That is the thought process I have, does the extra surface area help off-road when combined with the OEM cooler and larger skid plates, or does it just help at speed?

I will also reuse a gasket as long as I can. The rear end under my Sierra has to have the cover pulled to service it, I am two oil changes in and its dry as can be.

I could be overthinking this, too. I think 50k mile intervals are more than adequate. ZF has countered the FCA line about "sealed for life". Thank God. I see the whole Audi/VW debacle all over again with that plan. ZF says 80k-120k is the recommendation, so 50k miles is spot on. I'll look for the post on the aluminum pan. I also like it because of the drain plug. If you want to just do a drain and fill, that makes life a lot easier.

Show us your custom skids!

 

[blnewt]

@MarkM - I just completed a filter and fluid change (you can read about it here - https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/zf8-50k-mile-transmission-service.94302/)

I also have the PPE pan, but have not installed it because it will not fit a 3.6L without modifying the pan or the exhaust pipe which crosses over under the pan.

I am running full @Metalcloak skid plates and therefore, there is minimal (if any) air flow moving across the pan to aid in cooling. There are two advantages and two disadvantages to the PPE pan:

Advantages:

1. It holds between 1.5 to 2.0 additional quarts of fluid. A filter/fluid change takes about 4 quarts so this pan would bump you to six.
2. It has a magnetic drain plug which makes dumping the fluid a simple and non-messy task.

Disadvantages:

1. The filter for this pan is PPE proprietary. The OEM Mopar filter will not fit this pan.
2. The fins have to be trimmed down to almost the flat surface of the main part of the pan to squeeze between the transmission flange and exhaust pipe.

I have not decided what I will do with the one that I bought (as yet).

Bummer regarding that pan, seems that the cons outweigh the pros by quite a bit, especially the fit and the proprietary filter

Thanks, Brad,
$100 is not bad for the whole setup. An extra pan isn't a bad idea, part of dealing with a calamity is that you usually never plan one! I do like that the JL has a metal pan and detachable filter. I fear the plastic would crack too easily, even in a minor scrape or impact, but the steel pan would bend and flex some. At least enough, hopefully, that it won't just bleed out immediately should a calamity rear it's ugly head!

The transmissions are pretty far up, there are a lot of other things to hit and clear first, but an errant branch getting kicked up could be, well, a calamity!

The steel pan also transfers heat better, which is what I am thinking is a priority. Trans temps are hard on oil and I am curious how much the OEM cooler helps. I suspect a lot off-road as there is still a cooler that helps make up for lack of air flow. The fans will help with heat that is put into the coolant.

Thanks for the input on the temps with the skid plates. I would like to see pics of your setup. I am a fan of home-made goodies. I understand what you are saying about the skids and the fins, that is the part I am still trying to figure out. With the larger skids, airflow is impacted when crawling, in addition to effects of vehicle, but if the temps appear to be the same, that is worth consideration. It looks like the fins could give about double the cooling area.

That is the thought process I have, does the extra surface area help off-road when combined with the OEM cooler and larger skid plates, or does it just help at speed?

I will also reuse a gasket as long as I can. The rear end under my Sierra has to have the cover pulled to service it, I am two oil changes in and its dry as can be.

I could be overthinking this, too. I think 50k mile intervals are more than adequate. ZF has countered the FCA line about "sealed for life". Thank God. I see the whole Audi/VW debacle all over again with that plan. ZF says 80k-120k is the recommendation, so 50k miles is spot on. I'll look for the post on the aluminum pan. I also like it because of the drain plug. If you want to just do a drain and fill, that makes life a lot easier.

Show us your custom skids!

Here you go, only real test these have had was on the Rocky Gap trail, nailed the exhaust loop skid dead on, that loop section would have been a goner without that plate, so the whole set already paid for itself Ran these skids on the San Juan trails last year and the oil & trans temps never were excessive. IIRC the coolant got as high as 230 but kicked down in short order.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/2dr-v6-diy-skid-plate-set.78696/

 

[MarkM]

@MarkM - I just completed a filter and fluid change (you can read about it here - https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/zf8-50k-mile-transmission-service.94302/)

I also have the PPE pan, but have not installed it because it will not fit a 3.6L without modifying the pan or the exhaust pipe which crosses over under the pan.

I am running full @Metalcloak skid plates and therefore, there is minimal (if any) air flow moving across the pan to aid in cooling. There are two advantages and two disadvantages to the PPE pan:

Advantages:

1. It holds between 1.5 to 2.0 additional quarts of fluid. A filter/fluid change takes about 4 quarts so this pan would bump you to six.
2. It has a magnetic drain plug which makes dumping the fluid a simple and non-messy task.

Disadvantages:

1. The filter for this pan is PPE proprietary. The OEM Mopar filter will not fit this pan.
2. The fins have to be trimmed down to almost the flat surface of the main part of the pan to squeeze between the transmission flange and exhaust pipe.

I have not decided what I will do with the one that I bought (as yet).

Thanks, I was just going to search for your post and here you are. I saw something this morning about shaving the fins down to clear the Y-pipe. Definitely a huge design flaw there, both from FCA and PPE. I also noticed the filter is proprietary. That can be a huge problem if the company folds. But, if you buy a handful of filters, you would be set as you aren't going through them like engine oil filters.

Even with the OEM pan, it sits right above the pipe. This is part of the debate, more surface area for cooling cannot be bad, but more surface area right over a hot pipe isn't helping the cause when you are not generating airflow. It is worse if the fins that are shaved more or less 'wrap" around the pipe

I see the embossed foil heat shields around wiring and the cubby right over the muffler. There should be a piece of that between the pipe and transmission pan. Again, heat while crawling is a concern, but as Brad said, it wasn't huge with his oversize skid plates. This tells me the fluid heat exchanger is doing a decent job. I also want lower temps on the highway, which my JL sees more of going to and from trails.

Thanks for the input and the post. I am still interested in the pan, but am also contemplating other ways/places to keep heat and thermal breakdown lower in between changes.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Thanks for the input and the post. I am still interested in the pan, but am also contemplating other ways/places to keep heat and thermal breakdown lower in between changes.

Let me know if you are still interested in one. I could probably make you a heck of a deal on it.

 

[At Risk Ute]

I have the PPE pan (which I test-fitted during my fluid/filter change) and it will not fit the 3.6L without some modifications to the cooling fins on the pan. I did not see that note when I bought it or I probably would not have. PPE should be modifying these pans to fit the 3.6L when they are being made and not leave it to the owner to do it.

Lame as hell...

You think it would fit the 2.0T?

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