In praise (or not) of ESS? **NO POLITICS**

[Rahneld]

But it’s my Jeep, so I should have final say.

Here's the part I truly and respectfully don't get.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I understand the sentiments here and it is your Jeep, do whatever you want to it on your property. Make it non-street legal with enormous amounts of power that would fail it on any State's Emission Test. Operate it in one of those ginormous winter tennis bubbles that cleans the air before exchanging it with the outside.

Here's the rub. Take it off your property and on to public roads and things change. Your right to do whatever you want becomes more restrictive so that in the pursuit of your happiness you don't invade upon others--whether that be emissions and their right to cleaner air, or simply following traffic law.

Let me steer away from politics by not making judgements. I have a friend who believes in Libertarian principles and I respect and like him very much. He doesn't like "the man" telling him what to do, but--and this in my opinion is the important part--he will humbly and easily choose to give up some of his rights, even those put into place by "the man," in the belief that others deserve no less autonomy than him. He's a Libertarian for all: not just himself.

That's an idea I can identify with if not necessarily embrace. What frustrates me though is those who seem to forget their their liberty can come at the price of someone else's, and there are many people like this for which "the man" needs to make rules that everyone follows for the maximum benefit of the maximum number of people.

Do rules sometimes suck? Are they sometimes written poorly...administered unfairly...less than perfect....overly restrictive?

All of the above. : - )

And ESS is believed to be a first step towards the reduction of personal liberties for the overall benefit of all people.



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[TMJL2018]

Hey guys.. you know if you shift into M mode on an auto trans, the ESS is off by default? I think this sort of solves everyone's issues since I know many wants to drive a manual anyways, well now, if for whatever reason you bought the 8spd auto you can still enjoy "shifting" like a convenient version of a manual, enjoy being in control...better mileage... engine braking and all... and not having to deal with ESS either. I know that those who drives stick usually hates the ESS as well (it's an age thing).. win- win..

Appreciate you sharing this. I tried it this morning and it works perfectly. It'll help me on the trails.

 

[TJ2018]

I just don't get it. Most people get a jeep so they can mod it to how they want it.

Permanently disabling ESS is one simple and relatively cheap mod away. But people would rather BM&C about it until the cows come home rather than taking advantage of one of several solutions available. Including, but not limited to, pushing a button (have we become so disabled that pushing a button is too much for us???).

And all this psychobabble going back and forth on climate change. What does that have to do with any of this at all? Conserving fuel was a priority long before Al Gore came on the scene. I grew up in the days when you could only get fuel on days that matched your license plate (odd or even).

I agree with the poster above. It's your jeep, you have final say. If you don't like how it comes, change it to how you want it or get another vehicle. But sitting here and placing FCA at fault for doing what is in their best interest to do is pointless.

 

[Onyx Dragon]

I mean, don't get me wrong, I understand the sentiments here and it is your Jeep, do whatever you want to it on your property. Make it non-street legal with enormous amounts of power that would fail it on any State's Emission Test. Operate it in one of those ginormous winter tennis bubbles that cleans the air before exchanging it with the outside.

Here's the rub. Take it off your property and on to public roads and things change. Your right to do whatever you want becomes more restrictive so that in the pursuit of your happiness you don't invade upon others--whether that be emissions and their right to cleaner air, or simply following traffic law.

Things don't change. As long as he is within the law, he is fine. He could totally disable ESS and drive around on the road and be perfectly fine.

You could say the same thing towards you. Do whatever green things you want in your house. But don't force an unproven science issue on the rest of us.

ESS on or off isn't a legal thing, or we wouldn't have the ability to turn it off. There is nothing that has anything to do with the law in this issue. The entire reason the button is there is because FCA wanted to raise the MPG of their vehicles of the CAFE standard.

 

[KDB]

I know that those who drives stick usually hates the ESS as well (it's an age thing).. win- win..

Actually quite the opposite, myself and other MT drivers have posted saying the the ESS is really not bad on the 6 speed, primarily as we can control it with the clutch. As far as the "age thing," I’m closer to 60 than 50 and I actually like the ESS. Don’t see a reason to be getting 0 miles MPG when sitting at a red light.

 

[mrhumble1]

Actually quite the opposite, myself and other MT drivers have posted saying the the ESS is really not bad on the 6 speed, primarily as we can control it with the clutch. As far as the "age thing," I’m closer to 60 than 50 and I actually like the ESS. Don’t see a reason to be getting 0 miles MPG when sitting at a red light.

^^THIS^^

 

[allenn]

 

[allenn]

 

[mrhumble1]

Someone please close this thread before the flat-earth believers or anti-vaxxers start posting their nonsense.

 

[UKCATS]

 

[Sean L]

It’s almost like the toilet seat up/down discussions I have with my girlfriend

We know how this goes... you leave the seat up, and she yells at you... It happens to all of us...

There are no discussions...

 

[Majestic]

Someone please close this thread before the flat-earth believers or anti-vaxxers start posting their nonsense.

Don't get me started on the moon landings and the Illuminati.

 

[Ghuzz]

Why burn gas if you don’t have to? Tree hugger or backwards conservative why breath carbon monoxide if you don’t have to?

 

[SecondTJ]

Why burn gas if you don’t have to? Tree hugger or backwards conservative why breath carbon monoxide if you don’t have to?

I'd prefer if unburnt fuel came out of the tailpipe. There is no better smell than hydrocarbons from a cat-less exhaust

 

[Rahneld]

Things don't change. As long as he is within the law, he is fine. He could totally disable ESS and drive around on the road and be perfectly fine.

You could say the same thing towards you. Do whatever green things you want in your house. But don't force an unproven science issue on the rest of us.

ESS on or off isn't a legal thing, or we wouldn't have the ability to turn it off. There is nothing that has anything to do with the law in this issue. The entire reason the button is there is because FCA wanted to raise the MPG of their vehicles of the CAFE standard.

On this we agree. People are free to do as they wish with ESS. I was responding to the idea that when @BillG said "But it’s my Jeep, so I should have final say." he was referred to more than ESS. Maybe he wasn't.

But don't force an unproven science issue on the rest of us.

I'm not, but need I tell you that our government is as are many others worldwide. My thoughts above pertained to things beyond CO2 and ESS: like changes to a vehicle that would fail to make it street legal, and following and traffic law.

@Onyx Dragon : I take it that you've considered that we may never know if CO2 is the definitive proximate cause of Global Warming, or even if changes in our behavior in reducing CO2 will help things. The thing of it us that we may not have the time to wait to prove things beyond a smoking gun standard before we act.

How can we know if CO2 reduction can change global warming, or even if CO2 and global warming are correlated unless we try reducing CO2 (yes, via restrictions) emissions and collect data? If we could first test this in a lab we would.

Unproven science....

We often cannot establish causation between two things, when we see correlation, that can't be tested in a lab were other variables are controlled. Often we cannot wait when one of those things may be approaching "critical mass."

And often, we can prove causation but don't know the mechanism.

If we waited for the proof, for example, as to why so many medicines relatively safely help people, many drugs would have not made it to market (e.g. scientists don't understand why certain classes of meds help conditions without worse side effects--they just do.)

Nobody is yelling "grape fruit stunts growth," and asking you to change your ways around nonsense. We have climate and CO2 data that have risen over the last 100 years like mirror images of each other in ways that I think we simply cannot wait to prove, let alone to the standard of baised doubters, even if you are right, and such climate changes are on CO2 based (e.g. naturally occurring.)

And we're all biased.

I'll even give you that man made things not related to ICE vehicles may be more to blame for CO2. Look up last week's 60 minutes show online and Permafrost. Even then it behooves us to deal with this mess and double down on reducing vehicle emissions to compensate for it.

May you be right. May we see a decade of naturally occuring temperatures that drop because science got it wrong. Let's see less weather events. I would be thrilled to be wrong.

I don't want to be alarmist and change my life over everything science professes but doesn't prove (your point), but I feel enormous obligation to do right by the next generation, given the fact that I am a product of our country's finest generation.

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