In praise (or not) of ESS? **NO POLITICS**

zgn

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I've experienced an issue with ESS on my manual transmission where I've depressed the clutch, put it in first gear, and tried to go without the engine turning back on. So I've had to [quickly] put it back into neutral, take my foot off the clutch, and depress the break and start the process over in order for the engine to turn back on. This has happened a few times...most commonly in medians and other scenarios when I'm in neutral, almost stopped, and ESS and stopped the engine--but not a complete stop with the break fully engaged as it would be at a stop light/sign.

I suppose it could be because of my specific driving style...but it feels very unnerving in the moment when you want/need your vehicle to move and the engine isn't on.

Has anyone else experienced this?
Yes, see my post. But I just hold the accelerator till it kicks in. I dont go through all the neutral and ignition.





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Onyx Dragon

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"You say it's a "FACT" that "nearly all" of the Scientist and climatologist subscribe to the "climate change" theory that they conveniently had to change from "global warming" in a nice slight of hand after we had some of the coldest and longest winters in years."

Regardless of what side you sit on as it regards ESS, Global Warming, if it exists, what is causing it, will ESS help, what we can do about it, how much, and predictions for what it will do to us in the future, nobody but nobody can argue that its metrics are not captured in--assuming it was even the case--the climate data of a few winters.

That's like trying to prove that nature's carving tool: water, can't slice through rock by taking rock thickness measurements at 5 minute intervals, comparing the two, finding no appreciation reduction in the size of the rock and concluding beyond a shadow of a doubt that water hitting rock has no affect on it ever.

I truly hope the poster who said this was trolling. It scares me to think he/she subscribes to their beliefs based on such sampling data.
So what you are advocating in this case, is a knee jerk reaction to what may or may not be a human based issue. Never mind that we recently left a mini-ice age, so of course weather is going to be different.

We aren't talking about something like cleaning up the ocean, which would have an actual measurable affect. Instead, you THINK this might help, but have 0 proof. Meanwhile, there are scientists on both sides pointing at opposite conclusions. How about we worry about finding the truth before we start slapping things on our lives that may or may not help.
 

zgn

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Than hit the button to turn it off.
If I wanted it off I shouldn't have to hit a button every time. Plus I said I didn't mind having it on otherwise and like the fuel savings, but if they are going to implement on a vehicle they need to nake sure it is faster than a human.
 

MooseMob

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My last vehicle had it, took a bit to get used to. My 115 hp scooter in Thailand even has it.

So when I sit at a stoplight 4-5 minutes waiting my turn, I am OK with the engine being off. If it were a '63 cadillac I would worry about issues due to start/stop. Today's engines are built stronger/tighter.
 

chadly25

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I used to like ESS. One time I was using it and it stalled my Jeep with traffic coming in the opposite direction. That soured my view so I now bypass it.

For the tree huggers that are fighting for environmental protection, why the hell did you buy a Jeep?
 

TexasNate

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Sure you can. Talk only about the science or lack thereof, whichever you believe. Politics shouldn't influence science.
I don't understand how this comment has anything to do with my post.
This is an ESS post, not a global warming/climate change post.

I imagine the discourse could go like: "do you like free money from saving on gas or do you not like free money?"

Seems pretty simple to me.
This is not a thread about Global Warming. It's a thread about ESS. That so many here immediately jump on the Global Warming hate train in a thread about ESS tells a sad story.
It's almost like you guys missed the first post of this thread. I'll quote it to help.

2 - it reduces emissions that contribute to climate change
The OP brought it up. You can't use it as a positive and flat out censor the argument against it at the same time.
 

ThirtyOne

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It's almost like you guys missed the first post of this thread. I'll quote it to help.



The OP brought it up. You can't use it as a positive and flat out censor the argument against it at the same time.
my post had nothing to do with climate change or politics. It had to do with trolling. I have no problem with your post. It just had nothing to do with my post which you quoted.
 

TexasNate

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my post had nothing to do with climate change or politics. It had to do with trolling. I have no problem with your post. It just had nothing to do with my post which you quoted.
I get that you were replying to a poster that was throwing a fit, but I disagree that my post was unrelated. I was pointing out that the OP brought politics into the conversation and it is intellectually dishonest to ignore the politics involved no matter who requested the conversation not "go there".
 

rallydefault

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You guys are all awesome, and you really need to stop having these stupid digressions, but I have to say one thing: If one more person points to cold winters as "proof" that global warming is fake, I'm gonna need to see some proof of your kindergarten graduation or equivalent.

Global warming is fluctuations in temperature, not just everywhere gets warmer, always. You can have a colder winter but much warmer spring, summer, and the average trends warmer overall. Heck, you can have a wonky year of totally below normal temps. It's not "proof" that global warming is a hoax every time you get a snowstorm.

I thought this was common sense by now.

You can't argue: polar ice caps are melting, coral reefs are dying, and ocean temps are rising at accelerated rates when the data is compared as far back as humans have been gathering data. Those are observable, factual things.

Just had to get that off my chest. Later, dudes.
 

ThirtyOne

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I get that you were replying to a poster that was throwing a fit, but I disagree that my post was unrelated. I was pointing out that the OP brought politics into the conversation and it is intellectually dishonest to ignore the politics involved no matter who requested the conversation not "go there".
Of course. It’s hard not to go there. I have no problem with that. Thats not what the post i replied to was all about. It was a big F U post.

You quoted me just because you had something to say and you wanted to say it. This is the way we have a discussion now. We aren’t really interested in what the other person is saying. Feel free to make your point. Just leave me out of it.
 

snakesnakington

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It's almost like you guys missed the first post of this thread. I'll quote it to help.



The OP brought it up. You can't use it as a positive and flat out censor the argument against it at the same time.
The mods requested that the thread not go political and deleted several posts on both sides of the issue. That's the only "censorship" at play here.
 

Rahneld

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So what you are advocating in this case, is a knee jerk reaction to what may or may not be a human based issue. Never mind that we recently left a mini-ice age, so of course weather is going to be different.

We aren't talking about something like cleaning up the ocean, which would have an actual measurable affect. Instead, you THINK this might help, but have 0 proof. Meanwhile, there are scientists on both sides pointing at opposite conclusions. How about we worry about finding the truth before we start slapping things on our lives that may or may not help.
This post of mine you respond to advocates nothing more than the fact that climate change is measured in decades and centuries, not a couple of back to back years. Nobody disagrees with the fact that climate isn't measured in any year-over-year like fashion, as might be....sales lets say.

"I think this might help but I have zero proof...there are scientists on both sides."

That's exaggeration bordering on fiction which needs examination. First the "scientists on both sides statement."

There are so so so many more scientists who advocate for correlation between CO2 emissions and climate change than the numbers of scientists who feel otherwise that it's like saying that there are people on both sides, in Boston, of the Red Socks winning the world series while in a pennant race. Are these scientists biased too? They span a wide array of political views and locations on the globe.

I have zero proof? I have wicked levels of correlation. I have the fact that if this correlation is right, we are already behind the 8 ball in fixing things. I have the fact that even if CO2 turns out to not be the (proximate) cause of climate change that the need to move to a non-ICE paradigm for vehicles anyway still exists given the limited supply of fossil fuels--or do you feel that some hoax too?

Let's contrast that. Where's your proof that this correlation is nothing more than that and not causation as well?

What happens if you're wrong and every precious year we wait equates to future lives lost? How's about we plan for the inevitable anyway, a non-fossil fuel society, while we develop plans to deal with this problem and find better proof of its causal factors.

My grandfather blew cigarette smoke into a handkerchief and showed his sons the residue, urging them to not smoke 40 years before the tobacco industry was arguing the same correlation not causation arguments of doubters like you that too proved false. How long should smokers have waited to quit before enough evidence suggested cause and effect?

What would be enough proof? Criminal court reasonable doubt? It will likely never happen. At best we can operate as Intelligence Services of nations do with a confluence of evidence standard.
 

Rahneld

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I'd like the opposition to take these thoughts on with words, ideally backed by proof, not someone else's poster or some meme.

Someone a couple of posts back provided "proof" of the Global warming hoax in one article where the scientists were mostly, "less gung ho about it."

I believe in the theory of global warming. I'll try to do nearly everything I reasonably can to reduce my carbon footprint, and advocate for laws that force others to do the same, while further research is done. Come 2020 I'm going to try to trade my JL for a PHEV one. I'm not perfect: I do own a Wrangler: not the most efficient ICE vehicle out there.

Let's pretend that it turns out that I am wrong. Global warming is found to have no link with CO2, or maybe the theory is spot on but there's little we can do. I've still helped get the ball rolling towards the end of fossil fuels usage for energy, while yes, advocating for limited all our freedoms somewhat.

You don't believe in global warming. Now pretend you're wrong. Pretend you could have done something. Is it possible you too limited freedom for generations to come to simply survive?

How can you be so sure you're right, while I am willing to accept that I might be wrong despite 100 scientists on my side for every 1 on yours?

I am more than willing to be flamed by your retort rather that climate change's

Let's hear your logic; but make it logical. '4 out of 5 years of cold winters does not disprove climate change' is something anyone on any side of the issue with the most basic of sense would agree with.

"ESS has nothing to do with Global warming and it's off topic?"....it is anything but off topic. It is the topic. The two go together like peanut butter and jelly.

Global warming policy solely inspired ESS with CAFE standards. Love, hate, or don't mind ESS, it exists because of Global warming.

Let the hate begin, but try to be nice about it. ; - )
 

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