Sponsored

In praise (or not) of ESS? **NO POLITICS**

Capt-Zoom

Well-Known Member
First Name
Capt-Zoom
Joined
May 27, 2018
Threads
39
Messages
825
Reaction score
589
Location
North
Vehicle(s)
2019 JL sport s, 4door. 1999 TJ Sport
So I've seen a lot of negative comments about ESS and I don't get it....

For me personally my experience of ESS is:

1 - it saves fuel and money
2 - it reduces emissions that contribute to climate change
3 - I actually like sitting at junctions or in traffic without the noise and vibration of the engine running (it's hardly the smoothest engine in the world)
4 - it reduces engine wear
5 - the engine always starts within the split second of taking my foot off the brake and moving to the accelerator so quickly and smoothly it's never an inconvenience

I don't subscribe to the view that the constant stop start increases wear on the starter motor etc to any great degree - pretty much every new car here in Europe comes with this system, but if there are other real life experiences I'll listen...

So what's not to like...?
In response
1. Negligible if any.
2. U realize ther was a volcano a year or so ago that spewed nearly as much carbon as man has created in the last 100 years. It's quite arrogant to think that anyone and their little jeep with ESS are changing the world. Climate change is highly likely a natural phenomenon above that of the impact of man.
3. Seriously snowflake...lol.
4. Highly doubt this...you've likely never changed a starter motor or timing chain yourself. You'll also have increased belt wear and pully bearing wear. Sorry but I don't like my AC dying at lights.
5. That split second can cost you you life.

ESS is a daily reminder that our lives don't mean squat to jeep or the EPA. A daily reminder of her jeep bent the knee to the EPA.
Sponsored

 

nerubi

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Nov 28, 2018
Threads
23
Messages
3,995
Reaction score
5,363
Location
Nebraska
Vehicle(s)
2019 JLR, 2020 VW Tiguan
Occupation
Retired
Vehicle Showcase
1
My engine usually doesn't go off because I'm light on the brake and it takes a full brake press to activate the ESS.
 

Majestic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Threads
0
Messages
780
Reaction score
715
Location
NC
Vehicle(s)
2013 JKUR, 2019 JLUR
In response
1. Negligible if any.
2. U realize ther was a volcano a year or so ago that spewed nearly as much carbon as man has created in the last 100 years. It's quite arrogant to think that anyone and their little jeep with ESS are changing the world. Climate change is highly likely a natural phenomenon above that of the impact of man.
3. Seriously snowflake...lol.
4. Highly doubt this...you've likely never changed a starter motor or timing chain yourself. You'll also have increased belt wear and pully bearing wear. Sorry but I don't like my AC dying at lights.
5. That split second can cost you you life.

ESS is a daily reminder that our lives don't mean squat to jeep or the EPA. A daily reminder of her jeep bent the knee to the EPA.
1. Negligible for the owner, but waste is waste.
2. Not neglible if everybody’s car shuts off at red lights. By your rationale, the volcano spewed 100 years worth of carbon emissions on top of 100 years of man made carbon emissions. Which then made it unnatural.
3. Anytime the engine is on it’s wearing.
4. It’s not the 70’s anymore.
5. You can’t do anything in a split second since you can’t move your foot that fast. You most likely can’t think that fast.

Some people read too much into ESS to the point of creating their own paranoia.
 

TexasNate

Well-Known Member
First Name
Nathan
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Threads
1
Messages
115
Reaction score
258
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
Jeep Wrangler JL Sahara, Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk
In response
1. Negligible if any.
2. U realize ther was a volcano a year or so ago that spewed nearly as much carbon as man has created in the last 100 years. It's quite arrogant to think that anyone and their little jeep with ESS are changing the world. Climate change is highly likely a natural phenomenon above that of the impact of man.
3. Seriously snowflake...lol.
4. Highly doubt this...you've likely never changed a starter motor or timing chain yourself. You'll also have increased belt wear and pully bearing wear. Sorry but I don't like my AC dying at lights.
5. That split second can cost you you life.

ESS is a daily reminder that our lives don't mean squat to jeep or the EPA. A daily reminder of her jeep bent the knee to the EPA.
ESS can be annoying, particularly on the V6, but the fuel saving is definately not negligible for in town driving. Save money, don't save money, your call. Agree with you on points 2 and 3.

 

AnnDee4444

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Threads
49
Messages
4,669
Reaction score
6,265
Location
Vehicle(s)
'18 JLR 2.0
You thought this through too much...I don't base my hatred for ESS on logic. I hate it because it annoys the hell out of me. I spent money buying it ONLY because I didn't have a choice. I spent money to work around it so it doesn't annoy me anymore. The annoyance is NOT worth the cost savings to me. Just my opinion.

I think we actually agree then.

It's OK to turn ESS off if because you don't like it
 

Sponsored

Onyx Dragon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2019
Threads
2
Messages
269
Reaction score
256
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLU, 1999 Xj, 2001 Trans Am
Vehicle Showcase
3
1. Negligible for the owner, but waste is waste.
2. Not neglible if everybody’s car shuts off at red lights. By your rationale, the volcano spewed 100 years worth of carbon emissions on top of 100 years of man made carbon emissions. Which then made it unnatural.
3. Anytime the engine is on it’s wearing.
4. It’s not the 70’s anymore.
5. You can’t do anything in a split second since you can’t move your foot that fast. You most likely can’t think that fast.

Some people read too much into ESS to the point of creating their own paranoia.
Let's get rid of number 3. You have less wear on the engine idling than you do the repeated use of the starter to turn the engine over.

Number 4: it's not the 70's anymore...yet people still change those things themselves. If it were the 70's, you'd probably consider manning up and doing it.

Number 5: You absolutely can think as fast as a second. If you couldn't, you'd be unable to do things like type or even drive. Your brain operates fairly fast.
 

Rahneld

Banned
Banned
Banned
First Name
Ronald
Joined
Jan 26, 2019
Threads
62
Messages
1,113
Reaction score
692
Location
Boston
Vehicle(s)
JL Wrangler
"I don't like my government telling me..."

Sure. I get it. I really, sincerely, and humbly do. Who wants to be deprived of liberties? After all, like it or not, that's what laws, and rules, and standards, and even social norms do.

You're already being responsible, and here government comes along and makes rules that sometimes make no sense, don't work, are unfair, counterproductive etc.

Well, at least in theory (and sometimes in practice) those restrictions placed upon you benefit society more than they limit you. And those rules, I'll bet many of you are fine with them being placed on others to maximize your liberty and pursuit of happiness.

That medicine you take, that food you eat, that doctor you see, those dangerous roads you operate on made less unsafe with traffic laws.

Somebody got inconvenced to make your life better here.

Does ESS make much of a difference in climate change/fossil fuel savings in the big picture that it warrants the limited freedoms you get, necessitating that you push the button to turn it off each time you crank up, or buy gizmos to do it for you? Maybe for some of you it's just the principle of it.

I don't know? I don't know how much it helps keep climate change at bay. I don't know if CO2 is primarily responsible for climate change. I don't know that the batteries of electric vehicles, that when depleted aren't trading off polluting the ground versus ICE engines polluting the skies.

But I do stop to think, every time some rule limits my wiggle room, if it's all part of a tradeoff that I give up some freedom knowing some other person or entity is too to make my life more manageable.

I do know we're running out of fossil fuel, and that I can afford to overcompensate for Climate change, rather than afford, after the fact, when there's no time left to correct things, to under-compensate for theories that apolitical scientists throughout the world hold dear, and that very well may be true.
 

wrangler-rob

Well-Known Member
First Name
Robert
Joined
Apr 9, 2018
Threads
3
Messages
120
Reaction score
62
Location
New Jersey
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLUR
I think we actually agree then.
Though I agree with this statement, the method to "turning off" is BS. We should NOT have to depress a button during each use to disable, we should have a semi-permanent other than a TazerJL naturally provided by FCA in SW.
 

Onyx Dragon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2019
Threads
2
Messages
269
Reaction score
256
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLU, 1999 Xj, 2001 Trans Am
Vehicle Showcase
3
"I don't like my government telling me..."

Sure. I get it. I really, sincerely, and humbly do.
The rest of your post suggests otherwise.

ESS isn't a giant removal of any freedoms, and with the ability to turn it off, it isn't even all that effective. But here's the point of it (and again, I don't really care about ESS. i leave mine on, it's not a big deal to me), the government is telling me that I have to have something installed on my car that isn't safety related (ie: ABS, TC, stability management). Frankly, it's not a big deal. We aren't talking about a tracking device here. However, to some people it's a huge deal. Because those people don't want the government telling them what to buy, or what options they have to have on their private car.

This whole conversation about climate change is not only still up in the air, regardless what one side wants to say, but evidence we are seeing is starting to say otherwise.
 

Rahneld

Banned
Banned
Banned
First Name
Ronald
Joined
Jan 26, 2019
Threads
62
Messages
1,113
Reaction score
692
Location
Boston
Vehicle(s)
JL Wrangler
The rest of your post suggests otherwise.

ESS isn't a giant removal of any freedoms, and with the ability to turn it off, it isn't even all that effective. But here's the point of it (and again, I don't really care about ESS. i leave mine on, it's not a big deal to me), the government is telling me that I have to have something installed on my car that isn't safety related (ie: ABS, TC, stability management). Frankly, it's not a big deal. We aren't talking about a tracking device here. However, to some people it's a huge deal. Because those people don't want the government telling them what to buy, or what options they have to have on their private car.

This whole conversation about climate change is not only still up in the air, regardless what one side wants to say, but evidence we are seeing is starting to say otherwise.
I'm of the belief that the rest of my post doesn't suggest otherwise, or to rephrase "likes" the restrictions placed on me, no....

but rather accepts them as part of living in world where others face restrictions that makes my (and I think your) world better.

I do admit to liking the restrictions placed on other entities that makes my water cleaner, my dentist competent, my roads safe, my...you name it, but it does make the products more expensive--I'll give any descenter that.

And that goes not only for rules but taxes: the latter I also don't like, just accept as part of living in better society for them, despite what I see as the mis-mangement of said revenues at times.

I agree that ESS, in my view, isn't that much of an imposition to those who dislike it.

"the government is telling me that I have to have something installed on my car that isn't safety related"

Well...if global warming holds true, your safety, or more likely that of the generations that follow could very much be put in jeopardy by its affects.

I respectfully don't agree that we're seeing recent evidence to refute some of Global warming's conclusions, but rather, on the whole, research that only further supports it. (E.g. watch last night's 60 Minutes on permafrost if you haven't and you don't think those who produce the show have too much bias.)

And for those, likely not you @Onyx Dragon , (you seem like a good guy) who say, "not my problem," I'd like to have you recall what sacrifices the generation before you made, that affords you--despite regulations--the better life you lead.

"However, to some people it's a huge deal. Because those people don't want the government telling them what to buy, or what options they have to have on their private car."

I hear that. I respect it. I also take issue with it. "Private" car? So they'll be driving it only on their property, "sweeping up" (like after laying down sod) all the CO2 gases they've put into the non-private sky while they drove this private car on private land? I'd see your point better with a brand of television than say a automobile, but I do understand and appreciate your view.

And those same people, disgusted with the government telling them what to do, because they practice what they preach, believe these darn regulations on, say, (there are 1000s of examples) pharmaceutical companies to only deliver medicines that are tested for safety and effectiveness (and sure, sometimes that system goes screwy) do nothing but raise the cost of these products, because....

profit seeking/cost savings entities...you, me, companies, can be relied on to do the right thing in the public's interest?

And these consumers still do have choices, even if more limited, right?

Perhaps our only difference sir is where we draw the line on personal versus societal rights.

Peace. : - )
 

Sponsored

Snayte

Well-Known Member
First Name
Nathan
Joined
Mar 25, 2019
Threads
4
Messages
444
Reaction score
588
Location
Eau Claire, WI
Vehicle(s)
2019 JL Sahara Hella Yella, 2017 Ram 1500 Longhorn
Amazing that people can use a U-Connect touchscreen with it's myriad features and menus and sub menus to listen to music, navigate, change sources etc and yet pressing the ESS disable button once....is just one step.....too.....far.......I wonder if when it rains they refuse to turn the windshield wipers on because it's asking too much.
Well my truck has rain sensing wipers so in that case I do refuse to turn them on. :)
 

Jungle31

Active Member
First Name
Robert
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Threads
2
Messages
40
Reaction score
102
Location
Jacksonville. FL
Vehicle(s)
1982 CJ-7 and 2021 JLU Rubicon Diesel
So I've seen a lot of negative comments about ESS and I don't get it....

For me personally my experience of ESS is:

1 - it saves fuel and money
2 - it reduces emissions that contribute to climate change
3 - I actually like sitting at junctions or in traffic without the noise and vibration of the engine running (it's hardly the smoothest engine in the world)
4 - it reduces engine wear
5 - the engine always starts within the split second of taking my foot off the brake and moving to the accelerator so quickly and smoothly it's never an inconvenience

I don't subscribe to the view that the constant stop start increases wear on the starter motor etc to any great degree - pretty much every new car here in Europe comes with this system, but if there are other real life experiences I'll listen...

So what's not to like...?
LOL... "NO POLITICS!!!" but your second reason is nothing but politics. Dude....

1. It only saves money if it doesn't end up costing you more for worn starter components in the long run. That remains to be seen.
2. Bullshit.
3. Cool. It's not my priority but I understand.
4. I'm not sure of that either. It might. It might cause more engine wear by allowing oil to begin to migrate down to the bottom of the pan over and over, increasing your run time with less than optimal oil.
5. So far. I have to say, this is where I am totally against this little device. I am not willing to bet my life on that system. I live near several intersections where immediate and reliable power is a must. I agree that it operates pretty well. Ironically, it works better than the one on my 650i, but I don't use that system either. That DEFINITELY is not good for the starter or the engine. It says so in the manual. It is installed simply to get a desirable vehicle into the customer's hands while still meeting these ridiculous fuel standards.

So, do I want a Jeep, yes? Do I want one that turns off on me sometimes without my say so? Nope. If you like it, super! Save the world. That isn't my priority. My priority is making sure I have total control of my heavy machinery.
 

jeepinhokie

Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2018
Threads
0
Messages
20
Reaction score
51
Location
Charleston, SC
Vehicle(s)
1999 TJ, 2019 JLUR
I've experienced an issue with ESS on my manual transmission where I've depressed the clutch, put it in first gear, and tried to go without the engine turning back on. So I've had to [quickly] put it back into neutral, take my foot off the clutch, and depress the break and start the process over in order for the engine to turn back on. This has happened a few times...most commonly in medians and other scenarios when I'm in neutral, almost stopped, and ESS and stopped the engine--but not a complete stop with the break fully engaged as it would be at a stop light/sign.

I suppose it could be because of my specific driving style...but it feels very unnerving in the moment when you want/need your vehicle to move and the engine isn't on.

Has anyone else experienced this?
 

Majestic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Threads
0
Messages
780
Reaction score
715
Location
NC
Vehicle(s)
2013 JKUR, 2019 JLUR
Let's get rid of number 3. You have less wear on the engine idling than you do the repeated use of the starter to turn the engine over.

Number 4: it's not the 70's anymore...yet people still change those things themselves. If it were the 70's, you'd probably consider manning up and doing it.

Number 5: You absolutely can think as fast as a second. If you couldn't, you'd be unable to do things like type or even drive. Your brain operates fairly fast.
3) The starter on an ESS vehicle is designed for repeated starts. It’s starting a hot engine, so the wear is not the same as a cold engine start with a conventional starter.
4) Engines don’t suck anymore. If it did need a new timing chain, I’d man up and buy a new car because I’m not poor.
5) half second reaction times is drag racing territory. Most people aren’t sitting at a stage light ready to drop the clutch at redline.
 

Rahneld

Banned
Banned
Banned
First Name
Ronald
Joined
Jan 26, 2019
Threads
62
Messages
1,113
Reaction score
692
Location
Boston
Vehicle(s)
JL Wrangler
LOL... "NO POLITICS!!!" but your second reason is nothing but politics. Dude....

1. It only saves money if it doesn't end up costing you more for worn starter components in the long run. That remains to be seen.
2. Bullshit.
3. Cool. It's not my priority but I understand.
4. I'm not sure of that either. It might. It might cause more engine wear by allowing oil to begin to migrate down to the bottom of the pan over and over, increasing your run time with less than optimal oil.
5. So far. I have to say, this is where I am totally against this little device. I am not willing to bet my life on that system. I live near several intersections where immediate and reliable power is a must. I agree that it operates pretty well. Ironically, it works better than the one on my 650i, but I don't use that system either. That DEFINITELY is not good for the starter or the engine. It says so in the manual. It is installed simply to get a desirable vehicle into the customer's hands while still meeting these ridiculous fuel standards.

So, do I want a Jeep, yes? Do I want one that turns off on me sometimes without my say so? Nope. If you like it, super! Save the world. That isn't my priority. My priority is making sure I have total control of my heavy machinery.

I'm curious, not judgemental. How would you respond to the fact that the vast majority of climatogists, coming from all political, geographical and other diverse places in life subscribe to the theory of Global warming and CO2?

Do you believe this group as a whole is politically leaning? Do you think it's herd mentality and that some are afraid to say it's a hoax? Do you think it's true but can't be controlled by man? Do you think it's true but multifactorial, even where CO2 plays a small role? Do you think it's just natural processes at play? Do you think the scientists have ulterior motives?

Where does it say in the manual that ESS is bad for the starter and/or engine? Curious?

FWIW, I tend to put my automatic in manual first if I'm about to make a left turn that I have no choice but to "nail it" on. ESS hasn't let me down when it's engaged. Someday it might. Manual gear on an automatic insures it won't engage.
Sponsored

 
 



Top