In praise (or not) of ESS? **NO POLITICS**

JohnAinVA

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
211
Reaction score
223
Location
Northern Virginia
Vehicle(s)
2018 Jeep Wrangler S MT, 2014 BMW 328
Occupation
DoD Audit
Doesn't an engine emit more emissions when you start it then when it idles?





Advertisement

 

cktlarge

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chris
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
91
Reaction score
483
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
Vehicle(s)
2019 JL Sport
Turn on the Jeep -> push the disable button. Such a force of habit now, I push random stereo buttons when I drive any other vehicle.
 

stil2low

Well-Known Member
First Name
Craig
Joined
Oct 18, 2018
Messages
1,560
Reaction score
7,869
Location
Ontario Canada
Vehicle(s)
2015 Jeep jk
Doesn't an engine emit more emissions when you start it then when it idles?
In an non ESS system yes, the vehicle goes into a cold loop cycle until the o2 sensors get back up to operating temp and send proper signals. The ESS system fire the engine back up in open loop so it doesn’t emit the excess hydrocarbons.

Can see for yourself the difference in start, get to operating temp and let the system shut off and restart, RPMs go right to idle. Shut it off via the “key” and restart you will see the rpm jump up higher than normal idle then come back down as gets reading from the o2 and other sensors
 

Wrangler-NS

Well-Known Member
First Name
Guy
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
49
Reaction score
39
Location
Halifax, NS, Canada
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLU Sport S
I like the idea of it for most of the reasons you mentioned. I'm not convinced it doesn't cause additional wear of gaining a minute amount of fuel savings. The manufacturers will do anything they can to meet the standards for new vehicles - even if that means sacrificing other things. I don't trust them so I don't believe it.

I've turned my off via my Tazer JL. The real reason for me is I just don't find it smooth. I've almost stalled out at times where it cuts out or does not engage fast enough or smoothly enough when taking off. I've been in other vehicles where the implementation of it is a lot smoother. For now, it is a no for me on ESS in my Jeep and it is turned off.
 

Jo's Jeep

Well-Known Member
First Name
Paul
Joined
Aug 5, 2018
Messages
531
Reaction score
805
Location
SoCal
Vehicle(s)
2001 Lexus IS300 (Black) R.I.P. Taken out by a drunk driver in front of my house 7 Feb 2020 Saved the Jeep though!, 2008 Dodge Challenger ( Hemi Orange Pearl), 2015 Harley Davidson Road Glide (Amber Whiskey), 2018 Jeep Wrangler JLU Sahara (Ocean Blue)
It is impossible to talk about ESS without talking politics because they are unequivocally connected; and that's all I have to say about that...

Knowing things is both a blessing and a curse. Being old enough to see the cycle repeat it's self is only a curse because people never seem to learn from the past.
 

festerdan

New Member
First Name
Dan
Joined
Mar 11, 2019
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Location
New England
Vehicle(s)
2019 Wrangler Unlimited Sport S
Just a note for ETCMSSRetJoe:

On a 2019 JLU Rubicon w/ a manual transmission there is a button which disables ESS, it just needs to disabled each time you start the vehicle.
My automatic has this same button. I don't believe this system helps anything, but I'm to absent minded to remember to turn it off each time. When I'm in an off road situation I will turn it off. However I do like it at the drive through.
 

Capt-Zoom

Well-Known Member
First Name
Capt-Zoom
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
823
Reaction score
567
Location
North
Vehicle(s)
2019 JL sport s, 4door. 1999 TJ Sport
So I've seen a lot of negative comments about ESS and I don't get it....

For me personally my experience of ESS is:

1 - it saves fuel and money
2 - it reduces emissions that contribute to climate change
3 - I actually like sitting at junctions or in traffic without the noise and vibration of the engine running (it's hardly the smoothest engine in the world)
4 - it reduces engine wear
5 - the engine always starts within the split second of taking my foot off the brake and moving to the accelerator so quickly and smoothly it's never an inconvenience

I don't subscribe to the view that the constant stop start increases wear on the starter motor etc to any great degree - pretty much every new car here in Europe comes with this system, but if there are other real life experiences I'll listen...

So what's not to like...?
In response
1. Negligible if any.
2. U realize ther was a volcano a year or so ago that spewed nearly as much carbon as man has created in the last 100 years. It's quite arrogant to think that anyone and their little jeep with ESS are changing the world. Climate change is highly likely a natural phenomenon above that of the impact of man.
3. Seriously snowflake...lol.
4. Highly doubt this...you've likely never changed a starter motor or timing chain yourself. You'll also have increased belt wear and pully bearing wear. Sorry but I don't like my AC dying at lights.
5. That split second can cost you you life.

ESS is a daily reminder that our lives don't mean squat to jeep or the EPA. A daily reminder of her jeep bent the knee to the EPA.
 

nerubi

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Nov 28, 2018
Messages
3,995
Reaction score
4,994
Location
Nebraska
Vehicle(s)
2019 JLR, 2020 VW Tiguan
Occupation
Retired
Vehicle Showcase
1
My engine usually doesn't go off because I'm light on the brake and it takes a full brake press to activate the ESS.
 

Majestic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
659
Reaction score
621
Location
NC
Vehicle(s)
2013 JKUR, 2019 JLUR
In response
1. Negligible if any.
2. U realize ther was a volcano a year or so ago that spewed nearly as much carbon as man has created in the last 100 years. It's quite arrogant to think that anyone and their little jeep with ESS are changing the world. Climate change is highly likely a natural phenomenon above that of the impact of man.
3. Seriously snowflake...lol.
4. Highly doubt this...you've likely never changed a starter motor or timing chain yourself. You'll also have increased belt wear and pully bearing wear. Sorry but I don't like my AC dying at lights.
5. That split second can cost you you life.

ESS is a daily reminder that our lives don't mean squat to jeep or the EPA. A daily reminder of her jeep bent the knee to the EPA.
1. Negligible for the owner, but waste is waste.
2. Not neglible if everybody’s car shuts off at red lights. By your rationale, the volcano spewed 100 years worth of carbon emissions on top of 100 years of man made carbon emissions. Which then made it unnatural.
3. Anytime the engine is on it’s wearing.
4. It’s not the 70’s anymore.
5. You can’t do anything in a split second since you can’t move your foot that fast. You most likely can’t think that fast.

Some people read too much into ESS to the point of creating their own paranoia.
 

TexasNate

Well-Known Member
First Name
Nathan
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
115
Reaction score
252
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
Jeep Wrangler JL Sahara, Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk
In response
1. Negligible if any.
2. U realize ther was a volcano a year or so ago that spewed nearly as much carbon as man has created in the last 100 years. It's quite arrogant to think that anyone and their little jeep with ESS are changing the world. Climate change is highly likely a natural phenomenon above that of the impact of man.
3. Seriously snowflake...lol.
4. Highly doubt this...you've likely never changed a starter motor or timing chain yourself. You'll also have increased belt wear and pully bearing wear. Sorry but I don't like my AC dying at lights.
5. That split second can cost you you life.

ESS is a daily reminder that our lives don't mean squat to jeep or the EPA. A daily reminder of her jeep bent the knee to the EPA.
ESS can be annoying, particularly on the V6, but the fuel saving is definately not negligible for in town driving. Save money, don't save money, your call. Agree with you on points 2 and 3.

 

AnnDee4444

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
1,721
Reaction score
1,650
Location
Earth
Vehicle(s)
Jeep
You thought this through too much...I don't base my hatred for ESS on logic. I hate it because it annoys the hell out of me. I spent money buying it ONLY because I didn't have a choice. I spent money to work around it so it doesn't annoy me anymore. The annoyance is NOT worth the cost savings to me. Just my opinion.

I think we actually agree then.

It's OK to turn ESS off if because you don't like it
 

Onyx Dragon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2019
Messages
269
Reaction score
240
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLU, 1999 Xj, 2001 Trans Am
Vehicle Showcase
3
1. Negligible for the owner, but waste is waste.
2. Not neglible if everybody’s car shuts off at red lights. By your rationale, the volcano spewed 100 years worth of carbon emissions on top of 100 years of man made carbon emissions. Which then made it unnatural.
3. Anytime the engine is on it’s wearing.
4. It’s not the 70’s anymore.
5. You can’t do anything in a split second since you can’t move your foot that fast. You most likely can’t think that fast.

Some people read too much into ESS to the point of creating their own paranoia.
Let's get rid of number 3. You have less wear on the engine idling than you do the repeated use of the starter to turn the engine over.

Number 4: it's not the 70's anymore...yet people still change those things themselves. If it were the 70's, you'd probably consider manning up and doing it.

Number 5: You absolutely can think as fast as a second. If you couldn't, you'd be unable to do things like type or even drive. Your brain operates fairly fast.
 

Rahneld

Banned
Banned
First Name
Ronald
Joined
Jan 26, 2019
Messages
1,114
Reaction score
637
Location
Boston
Vehicle(s)
JL Wrangler
"I don't like my government telling me..."

Sure. I get it. I really, sincerely, and humbly do. Who wants to be deprived of liberties? After all, like it or not, that's what laws, and rules, and standards, and even social norms do.

You're already being responsible, and here government comes along and makes rules that sometimes make no sense, don't work, are unfair, counterproductive etc.

Well, at least in theory (and sometimes in practice) those restrictions placed upon you benefit society more than they limit you. And those rules, I'll bet many of you are fine with them being placed on others to maximize your liberty and pursuit of happiness.

That medicine you take, that food you eat, that doctor you see, those dangerous roads you operate on made less unsafe with traffic laws.

Somebody got inconvenced to make your life better here.

Does ESS make much of a difference in climate change/fossil fuel savings in the big picture that it warrants the limited freedoms you get, necessitating that you push the button to turn it off each time you crank up, or buy gizmos to do it for you? Maybe for some of you it's just the principle of it.

I don't know? I don't know how much it helps keep climate change at bay. I don't know if CO2 is primarily responsible for climate change. I don't know that the batteries of electric vehicles, that when depleted aren't trading off polluting the ground versus ICE engines polluting the skies.

But I do stop to think, every time some rule limits my wiggle room, if it's all part of a tradeoff that I give up some freedom knowing some other person or entity is too to make my life more manageable.

I do know we're running out of fossil fuel, and that I can afford to overcompensate for Climate change, rather than afford, after the fact, when there's no time left to correct things, to under-compensate for theories that apolitical scientists throughout the world hold dear, and that very well may be true.
 

wrangler-rob

Well-Known Member
First Name
Robert
Joined
Apr 9, 2018
Messages
118
Reaction score
59
Location
New Jersey
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLUR
I think we actually agree then.
Though I agree with this statement, the method to "turning off" is BS. We should NOT have to depress a button during each use to disable, we should have a semi-permanent other than a TazerJL naturally provided by FCA in SW.
 

Onyx Dragon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2019
Messages
269
Reaction score
240
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLU, 1999 Xj, 2001 Trans Am
Vehicle Showcase
3
"I don't like my government telling me..."

Sure. I get it. I really, sincerely, and humbly do.
The rest of your post suggests otherwise.

ESS isn't a giant removal of any freedoms, and with the ability to turn it off, it isn't even all that effective. But here's the point of it (and again, I don't really care about ESS. i leave mine on, it's not a big deal to me), the government is telling me that I have to have something installed on my car that isn't safety related (ie: ABS, TC, stability management). Frankly, it's not a big deal. We aren't talking about a tracking device here. However, to some people it's a huge deal. Because those people don't want the government telling them what to buy, or what options they have to have on their private car.

This whole conversation about climate change is not only still up in the air, regardless what one side wants to say, but evidence we are seeing is starting to say otherwise.
 

Advertisement




Rock Krawler
 



Advertisement
Top