In praise (or not) of ESS? **NO POLITICS**

[RandyB-JL19]

I am kind of indifferent, except that it randomly craps out, throws an error code, and then disables my cruise control.

For CAFE standards, I am sure it improves the overall gas mileage in the lab. In the real world, likely no benefit.

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[mwilk012]

I am kind of indifferent, except that it randomly craps out, throws an error code, and then disables my cruise control.

For CAFE standards, I am sure it improves the overall gas mileage in the lab. In the real world, likely no benefit.

You should probably get that fixed.

 

[mrhumble1]

So he should do what, roll to a stop in neutral with the clutch out?

Yea, it seems like you guys are talking about 2 different things. One is about a momentary stop such as a stop sign, the other about prolonged red lights. I can definitely see the recommendation to not hold for nothing, but a momentary stop has almost no realistic alternative.

I’ve heard that before too but did that routinely in my JK (held clutch in while waiting at a red light) and never had issues with the throw out bearing for the entire time I had it. Bought it new in ‘09 and sold it last year with 150,000 with no clutch or throw out bearing issue ever. Not saying it won’t happen just that my experience didn’t show it to be an issue.

^^These guys get it^^

Driving a manual means using the clutch. The idea that I am doing harm by engaging the clutch at a stop sign or stop light is nonsense. Nobody stops at a stop sign or stop light in-gear with the clutch out. 2 guesses as to why...

If you know how to drive you won't cause premature wear on any wearable part, and using the clutch (as it's designed to be used) to also moderate when ESS engages is just being smart.

 

[nerubi]

1. Does it? I used it for the first month and then turned it off and compared. I saw MAYBE .2 a mpg more with it enabled.
2. Climate change is BS. I'm not worried about my impact on a naturally occurring process.
3. I don't mind a running engine.
4. And how do you arrive to this conclusion? It's been widely known for years that a huge amount of wear on engines occurs during starting. There is no electric oil pump that is continually pumping oil with the engine off so if anything it increases wear.
5. I've seen it NOT start and leaving me to shift into park and manually start it.

If you add in the added complexity of the second battery and the hassle it causes. Wait til you come out and find your battery voltage low and every device running without the ability to shut it off. The only way to kill it is to disconnect both batteries and then charge your battery with it unhooked.

#1. That is not even close to being an accurate comparison of mpg differences. Did every single variable stay exactly the same from 1 month to another?

 

[multicam]

The ONLY issue I have with ESS is that the computer doesn’t remember that I want it off. It’s insulting- it’s basically the manufacturer, influenced by government pressure, saying “we know how your vehicle should behave more than you do. We’re okay with inconveniencing you in pursuit of our agenda. Even though it’s well within our power to make the computer remember your choice, we’re not going to give you that option and we’ll just make the computer revert to how we want you to behave until you submit to our will.”

It’s the same reason I have always jailbroken my iPhones. Been doing it since 2009. I paid for this piece of hardware which runs an operating system which I mostly love- but it bothers me that Apple doesn’t think I should be able to change certain settings / access certain features so I circumvent Apple’s will.

Guess who’s going to be buying a Tazer, or something similar?

 

[Gregodav]

The antici------pation of the hesi--------tation is annoying. Perhaps I drink too much coffee, but I hate the increasing engine start hesitation which leads to my agitation and acceleration.

 

[Jebiruph]

^^These guys get it^^

Driving a manual means using the clutch. The idea that I am doing harm by engaging the clutch at a stop sign or stop light is nonsense. Nobody stops at a stop sign or stop light in-gear with the clutch out. 2 guesses as to why...

If you know how to drive you won't cause premature wear on any wearable part, and using the clutch (as it's designed to be used) to also moderate when ESS engages is just being smart.

If you are referring to my comment about using the clutch to manage ESS, the throwout bearing is a wearable part and is subject to wear every time you use it. I would not use the clutch as an ESS management device. But thanks for the explanation on how to drive.

 

[mrhumble1]

If you are referring to my comment about using the clutch to manage ESS, the throwout bearing is a wearable part and is subject to wear every time you use it. I would not use the clutch as an ESS management device. But thanks for the explanation on how to drive.

Dood you might want to re-read all the stuff I wrote because you are missing something.

I use the clutch when slowing down at stop signs, like everyone else that drives a manual. I use the clutch when starting from stop, like everyone else that drives a manual. I time these things to either keep the engine running or let ESS engage, depending on how long I will be stopped. It's not like I am pounding on the clutch pedal for funsies every time I hit a stop light. This is not complicated and I am sure most manual JL drivers do the same. None of us are ruining our throwout bearings.

I feel like this is the same as you telling everyone to not use their breaks to slow the vehicle because that causes them to wear. Am I missing something??

 

[Jebiruph]

When you come to a stop, you push the clutch in, put the shifter in neutral and release the clutch. When you go to start, you push the clutch in, shift to first gear and release the clutch. It's not a question of pounding the clutch, it's about when the clutch is pushed in the bearing is spinning. If you are holding the clutch in when stopped just to prevent ESS from stopping the engine, then you are using the clutch to manage ESS. Like all bearings that wear as they are used, using the clutch this way adds to the wear of the throw out bearing.

 

[word302]

When you come to a stop, you push the clutch in, put the shifter in neutral and release the clutch. When you go to start, you push the clutch in, shift to first gear and release the clutch. It's not a question of pounding the clutch, it's about when the clutch is pushed in the bearing is spinning. If you are holding the clutch in when stopped just to prevent ESS from stopping the engine, then you are using the clutch to manage ESS. Like all bearings that wear as they are used, using the clutch this way adds to the wear of the throw out bearing.

Leaving your transmission in gear and your foot on the clutch when you know it's going to be a fairly quick light is pretty common behavior. Kind of like how you wouldn't want ESS to kill the engine in the same circumstance. We're not driving our vehicles any differently than we would if ESS didn't exist. Do you put it in neutral and take your foot off the clutch at a stop sign?

 

[Jebiruph]

Leaving your transmission in gear and your foot on the clutch when you know it's going to be a fairly quick light is pretty common behavior. Kind of like how you wouldn't want ESS to kill the engine in the same circumstance. We're not driving our vehicles any differently than we would if ESS didn't exist. Do you put it in neutral and take your foot off the clutch at a stop sign?

If you are not driving any different than if ESS didn't exist, then you are not managing ESS with the clutch. The initial comment was using the clutch to control whether or not ESS activated. If ESS didn't exist, you wouldn't push the clutch in to prevent it from activating. I think we are agreeing?

 

[mikej]

I leave ESS on all the time on-road (3.6 auto). I'm fine with it and don't mind it at all. As a few have said, it has changed a bit how I drive. For instance, I don't inch forward at lights anymore, sometimes letting a two car length gap getting created before I take my foot of the brake.

That said, I hate when the engine turns off right before I shift into park, and then turns back on when I do shift into park only to again turn off the engine. I suppose I could turn it off in drive, then shift to park. I haven't tested to see if the engine will actually turn off when not in park. Something to try tomorrow.

 

[TravisRogers]

I’m impatient and ESS takes too long for me. The full second I have to wait for the Jeep to catch up is annoying.

Also annoying are the people ahead of me who, when the light turns green, require time to emotionally prepare to transfer their foot from the brake to the gas. Those are the people who enjoy features like ESS. These are also the people who go exactly the speed limit on the highway and wonder why the rest of the world is angry with them.

 

[ThirtyOne]

If you are not driving any different than if ESS didn't exist, then you are not managing ESS with the clutch. The initial comment was using the clutch to control whether or not ESS activated. If ESS didn't exist, you wouldn't push the clutch in to prevent it from activating. I think we are agreeing?

I think you are overstating it. It’s basically a wash. Sometimes it is just pressing the clutch when i would anyway. Like at a stop sign. And then there are times when i would normally use the clutch but i don’t so ESS won’t reengage. For example not inching up in traffic or putting the Jeep in gear early in anticipation of the light changing.

So managing ESS with the clutch means sometimes using the clutch more and sometimes using it less.

 

[KDB]

I think you are overstating it. It’s basically a wash. Sometimes it is just pressing the clutch when i would anyway. Like at a stop sign. And then there are times when i would normally use the clutch but i don’t so ESS won’t reengage. For example not inching up in traffic or putting the Jeep in gear early in anticipation of the light changing.

So managing ESS with the clutch means sometimes using the clutch more and sometimes using it less.

Agree 100% as this is how I use mine as well. In regards to the throw out bearing issue, I heard the same talk about this when I drove my manual JK and I used to sit at all red lights with clutch in more often than not. Sold the JK last year with over 140,000 miles on the original clutch and never had issues with the clutch or throw out bearing either. Not saying that using the clutch in the manner of holding it in will not degrade the life of the throw out bearing just that my experience shows it didn’t seem to have an impact.

With the JL I tend to NOT hold clutch in if looks like the stop is going to be a while (like at a red light) so that the ESS will engage. I can see how those that drive an auto would have issues with the ESS but for us manual tranny folks it’s actually not bad at all as we have way more control over how and when it kicks in.

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