If You're Getting Owned at The Dealership, You're Not Alone

[jellis4148]

I’ve read several people say they don’t need the dealers cause the salesman are this and that, and the service bs. Then you go buy the $5,000 computer it takes to plug into the computer if your Jeep and learn what all of it means, or the $10,000 alignment rack, or $7,000 tire balancing machine, and let’s not forget your hundreds of dollars of special tools we have to have. Oh crap I forgot about all the parts, regular lifts and the thousands of dollars the mechanics have spent of there own money to be able to work on your precious “I don’t need a dealership” Jeep. Sure get rid of dealers and be like Tesla. They don’t have any. They don’t negotiate. When that turd bakes down you’re without it for a week or two with no loaner, cause it has to be hauled to another state. We give out loaners to all service customers that need them. I’m sure you’ll get a great deal without dealers. I guarantee you’ll pay MSRP for your pretty Jeep if you left it up to buying direct from them. I mean that’s why they put that sticker in the window. That’s what they feel you should pay. They sell them to the dealer at a discount and leave up to us whether we do or not. Why don’t you just go milk a cow and stop buying it from Walmart? They are the middle man and charging you more than if you got it straight from the cow. Why don’t you buy your beer straight from Coors or whoever instead of paying the middle man at the gas station or liquor store his markup? Why don’t you buy your cell phone charger straight from the company that made it instead of Best Buy? You don’t. Btw, they make 100%-200% on accessories. They make dick on the 75” tv you bought. Hey, we dealers are the crooks, but nobody else is. Such narrow minded thinking. Our job is just as important as your job. Apparently it’s a sin for us to make money, but all other business in the world can.

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[Allen624]

I just purchased a 2021 new rubicon unlimited for a true $5800 discount! You just have to find the right dealer. I called 7 dealers. 3 were priced above Msrp no movement, 3 were only Msrp, and this one was $5800 off new rubicon’s this week only. They needed the sales numbers for June. Win win, I paid less out the door for this $58,300 rubicon than another dealer tired to charge me for a $52,500 rubicon.

You have to be watching as these types of deals sell in hours. I got the last one. One of the other ones is being shipped out of state. Most sold within 2 hours of arrival

 

[jellis4148]

I just purchased a 2021 new rubicon unlimited for a true $5800 discount! You just have to find the right dealer. I called 7 dealers in central Florida. 3 were priced above Msrp no movement, 3 were only Msrp, and this one was $5800 off new rubicon’s this week only. They needed the sales numbers for June. Win win, I paid less out the door for this $58,300 rubicon than another dealer tired to charge me for a $52,500 rubicon

good looking Jeep. I love the Sarge Green.

 

[Bloody Marty]

I’ve read several people say they don’t need the dealers cause the salesman are this and that, and the service bs. It’s funny cause they are the ones on the forum asking how to turn the A/C on or something super simple that we as salesman show how to use when we do a delivery. Sure get rid of dealers like Tesla. They don’t have any. They don’t negotiate. When that turd bakes down you’re without it for a week or two with no loaner. We give out loaners to all service customers that need them. I’m sure you’ll get a great deal without dealers. I guarantee you’ll pay MSRP for your pretty Jeep if you left it up to buying direct from them. I mean that’s why they put that sticker in the window. That’s what they feel you should pay. They sell them to the dealer at a discount and leave up to us whether we do or not. Why don’t you just go milk a cow and stop buying it from Walmart? They are the middle man and charging you more than if you got it straight from the cow. Why don’t you buy your beer straight from Coors or whoever instead of paying the middle man at the gas station or liquor store his markup? Why don’t you buy your cell phone charger straight from the company that made it instead of Best Buy? You don’t. Btw, they make 100%-200% on accessories. They make dick on the 75” tv you bought. Hey, we dealers are the crooks, but nobody else is. Such narrow minded thinking. Our job is just as important as your job. Apparently it’s a sin for us to make money, but all other business in the world can.

You said it perfectly again, & "someone" (earlier) got OWNED!!! Hahaha!!

 

[rcadden]

I generally dislike dealers, as well, but I also drive my cars for ~10+ years, so I don't deal with them much.

My approach to car buying is the same as when I make any other major purchase. I know my ideal price and my maximum price going in. The closer I can get to my ideal price, the better, but I absolutely will not go over my maximum price.

If the dealer can sell me the vehicle somewhere in between, great. He makes the sale. If he can't, no sweat, I walk and try another one. It's not personal, it's just business. Most people, IMO, make the mistake of walking into a dealership with the mindset that they're going to buy a car. That's wrong, and that's a great way to get bent over.

If you walk in with the mindset of "I'm going to see if this dealership has the car that I want at the price that I want", you'll come out much better and won't feel like you got taken advantage of. The salesperson's job is just to get you as close to your maximum budget without going over it (and usually without knowing it). It's a game; a dance.

As for service, I never use a dealership's service department if I can avoid it. I have a local mechanic that I've used for years. He'll tell me straight up what the problem is, and has even ordered parts for me and then let me do the install if I don't want to pay the labor.

 

[Murphydog]

just remember not to take anything personally - dealers can offer their cars any what ever price they want to, don't be offended if they reject your offer. You don't have to buy from them.

I reached out to several dealers within the greater Seattle area - 2 of them had very knowledgeable staff, but had no interest in negotiating pricing. The one I settled on fancies themselves as being local Seattle competition to Dave Smith and were willing to give me the Costco price on an order. Do I need a new Jeep right now? Not really. Would I have bought at MSRP (or higher?), nope, I would have waited.

When the other locations followed up with me I thanked them and let them know I went with the lower price. No hard feelings either way.

 

[aldo98229]

Dealers shouldn't exist, period...they are nothing more than middle men to me...I never service my car at a dealer, so other than marking up the car to sell it to me, what does a dealer do? Jeep.com should sell the car directly to consumer, especially since it would benefit the manufacturer and the consumer to have it that way...oh I forgot this is where people tell me, the jeep dealer mechanics are the experts and do the best work! My bad, my bad, wrong thread lol

I have a love-hate relationship with dealers.

I had very good dealers in the past, so I had no issue taking my vehicles to them. But my current dealer is nothing more than a franchise of douche bags as far as I am concerned.

I don't know that having FCA own and run the retail and service of vehicles would be any better to be honest. The reason the level of service at CDJR dealers has dropped over the past several years is, in great part, due to how FCA treats its own dealers.

Now imagine being on the receiving end of all that abuse as an individual customer.

 

[jellis4148]

So, some People get it. Just like that last few posts above this. It’s not personal. We do the best we can. I do my best for a good survey and to make the customer enjoy and not regret coming in to see me. That’s why I’ve been at the same place so long and get a lot of repeat customers every month. Everyone has my cell phone number and can call/text me at anytime. I will always do my best to help. If for some reason we can’t come to an agreement on numbers I don’t take it personal. I guess I do a little, but only because I feel like I didn’t do a good job on my end if they don’t buy. That’s just my OCD though. Sometimes people just have unreasonable expectations. I always call or send a letter thanking people I don’t sell for coming in. I give them my cell and let them know if they have any questions or concerns with the Jeep they bought elsewhere I will still be more than happy to help them.

 

[jellis4148]

It’s all good. I know there are salesman/dealers that just suck, and they make us all look bad when we aren’t. I just want to provide for my family and have enough left over for Jeep parts, lol.

 

[Walker Texas Wrangler]

So, some People get it. Just like that last few posts above this. It’s not personal. We do the best we can. I do my best for a good survey and to make the customer enjoy and not regret coming in to see me. That’s why I’ve been at the same place so long and get a lot of repeat customers every month. Everyone has my cell phone number and can call/text me at anytime. I will always do my best to help. If for some reason we can’t come to an agreement on numbers I don’t take it personal. I guess I do a little, but only because I feel like I didn’t do a good job on my end if they don’t buy. That’s just my OCD though. Sometimes people just have unreasonable expectations. I always call or send a letter thanking people I don’t sell for coming in. I give them my cell and let them know if they have any questions or concerns with the Jeep they bought elsewhere I will still be more than happy to help them.

I can appreciate and respect that. And I've bought from salesmen just like you. But for every one like you there's just as many or more that are not like that. This is coming from a guy who has spent more years in retail marketing than you have spent in sales. I have a deeper understanding of MSRP vs. invoice vs. cost. But the auto industry dealership has one of the strangest pricing models for direct to consumer.

I have my own business and understand the importance of servicing clients. I'm a lot like you. Honest to a fault and will often go out of my way to make sure my clients are satisfied, even if I take a bit of a hit. I'd rather they come back.

But, any dealership that allows and often times trains it's salespeople to directly lie to their customers doesn't get much pity or respect (it's not a coincidence that the new ones tend to lie the most). When I come to buy, I don't want to waste anyones time and I come prepared knowing what I am buying. I will be up front that if you lie to me, I will kindly leave (and have). I don't want to buy anything from anyone that I can't trust. I want you to make money, but do it honestly. When you have to negotiate to buy the second most expensive thing you will likely buy, it's very important.

 

[aldo98229]

Ok sorry for my initial rant...I just had a sour experience buying a 392...had the first dealer tell me msrp and put a 1k deposit down and they said 5 months and then I had a Vin and then I magically didnt...then went to a second one claiming it was their 2nd allocation and put another 1k down there and it wasnt...but the cars are already built because somehow because both my orders came in to the different dealers same day on 5/25...but that's me making assumptions as the process is far from transparent...part of the issue was car trade in too, because the used car market is crazy, which I'll give that to the dealers right now

Like I'm cool paying msrp on that car, but sheesh the miscommunication and lack of trust I had, shouldn't exist like that...like I wanna buy a gladiator 392 next time, and I hope the process isn't anything like that

Right now a lot of the miscommunication on 392s is coming from FCA itself. FCA has a regular habit of leaving its own dealers in the dark.

I assure you wouldn't find it any better if you dealt with FCA directly.

 

[jellis4148]

I can appreciate and respect that. And I've bought from salesmen just like you. But for every one like you there's just as many or more that are not like that. This is coming from a guy who has spent more years in retail marketing than you have spent in sales. I have a deeper understanding of MSRP vs. invoice vs. cost. But the auto industry dealership has one of the strangest pricing models for direct to consumer.

I have my own business and understand the importance of servicing clients. I'm a lot like you. Honest to a fault and will often go out of my way to make sure my clients are satisfied, even if I take a bit of a hit. I'd rather they come back.

But, any dealership that allows and often times trains it's salespeople to directly lie to their customers doesn't get much pity or respect (it's not a coincidence that the new ones tend to lie the most). When I come to buy, I don't want to waste anyones time and I come prepared knowing what I am buying. I will be up front that if you lie to me, I will kindly leave (and have). I don't want to buy anything from anyone that I can't trust. I want you to make money, but do it honestly. When you have to negotiate to buy the second most expensive thing you will likely buy, it's very important.

You’re the type of customer I like to get. You make my job easy. I’ll do all I can to get to or close to where you want. If not we can shake hands and move on. Hopefully I’ve done a good enough job you’ll give me another chance in the future. Hell, I’ve had people I didn’t sell send family and friends to me cause they liked how I treated them. Like you, I won’t lie. I don’t do the get up 10 times and then have someone else come in to do the same thing. Your and my time is too valuable for that bs. I feel like the big stores that aren’t family owned are the ones that cause the problems. Our owner is 76 and still comes in every day. His son runs it for the most part now and his son in law is a manager also. We sell about 300-350 a month and are newest salesman has been there 5 years and the oldest is 27 years.

 

[aldo98229]

I'll use the internet and auto trader going forward like I did this time and the younger generations seem to prefer...the one thing I will never do is negotiate a deal in person, that is an old school dead tactic in car sales to play games in person

^^^ this!

The only reason I’d want to spend 5 hours haggling at a dealership is because there’s a heat wave and I don’t have air conditioning at home...

One of the most poignant car selling scenes I’ve seen: Fargo, 1996.

 

[OINC]

I’ve read several people say they don’t need the dealers cause the salesman are this and that, and the service bs. Then you go buy the $5,000 computer it takes to plug into the computer if your Jeep and learn what all of it means, or the $10,000 alignment rack, or $7,000 tire balancing machine, and let’s not forget your hundreds of dollars of special tools we have to have. Oh crap I forgot about all the parts, regular lifts and the thousands of dollars the mechanics have spent of there own money to be able to work on your precious “I don’t need a dealership” Jeep. Sure get rid of dealers and be like Tesla. They don’t have any. They don’t negotiate. When that turd bakes down you’re without it for a week or two with no loaner, cause it has to be hauled to another state. We give out loaners to all service customers that need them. I’m sure you’ll get a great deal without dealers. I guarantee you’ll pay MSRP for your pretty Jeep if you left it up to buying direct from them. I mean that’s why they put that sticker in the window. That’s what they feel you should pay. They sell them to the dealer at a discount and leave up to us whether we do or not. Why don’t you just go milk a cow and stop buying it from Walmart? They are the middle man and charging you more than if you got it straight from the cow. Why don’t you buy your beer straight from Coors or whoever instead of paying the middle man at the gas station or liquor store his markup? Why don’t you buy your cell phone charger straight from the company that made it instead of Best Buy? You don’t. Btw, they make 100%-200% on accessories. They make dick on the 75” tv you bought. Hey, we dealers are the crooks, but nobody else is. Such narrow minded thinking. Our job is just as important as your job. Apparently it’s a sin for us to make money, but all other business in the world can.

I think a lot of the hate for dealers comes down to two things:

First, negotiating pricing genuinely sucks for most people. We rarely do it any more, so we aren't good it and we're going up against someone who does it all day every day for a living. No one likes to feel like they suck at something, or are in a match they're heavily favored to lose.

It's the most expensive depreciating purchase most people will ever make, and it's often a very needed purchase at the time you're purchasing, so the stakes during negotiations (which, again, are awful for most people) feel extremely high. It is VERY easy to feel taken advantage of when you NEED something and someone is trying to extract the most money from you they can using high-pressure negotiating tactics. It's easy to SAY "don't take it personally" but humans are emotional creatures that occasionally think, so we will always take it personally. Some of us are just better at emotional regulation (ie, shaking it off).

I think a LOT of the car buying experience would be better without the negotiation for most people, even if some people would generally get a worse deal in that scenario. I suspect people buying Teslas may pay more than they would if Tesla negotiated, but I think they probably have a far less stressful purchasing experience! Note that this doesn't mean that everyone has to pay MSRP -- having a "no haggle price" and then ... never haggling is all that would be required. Just like TVs! Some people would value convenience and buy the TV the wanted whenever they wanted, no matter if it was the best price or not; others would shop around to find the best deal, stalk sales, coupon hunt, etc.

I suspect this is what people REALLY want when they say "get rid of dealerships".


Second, some dealerships are genuinely awful businesses that exist only to take money and NOT provide goods and services in exchange. This shows up on both the sales side and the service side. There's one chain of dealerships here in NC that I would refuse to buy a car from even if they had the absolute best price on my absolute most ideal car, just because everyone I know has been treated so awfully there. I went to a smaller non-chain dealership for my current car.

Most of this is baked into the culture of the specific dealership or chain. It's often based around whether the salespeople are constantly living in fear of not making high-pressure unreasonable goals because it's run by an awful person or is a giant chain where no one really matters (or both, in the case of the chain I mention above). And some parts of it are also based around minority status or age; young women are often treated worse at dealerships than older men, for example. Hats off to you and the other salesperson in the thread if you actively work not to make assumptions based on how someone looks or sounds.

It doesn't help that MOST commissioned sales positions (not just cars) are a temporary jobs for a lot of people, so they have no incentive to build a loyal customer base. The good long-term salespeople do have that incentive, and are often more pleasant to work with, especially when combined with a more humanity-oriented dealership. It sounds like you fall into that camp, and your dealership isn't fear-based. I'd probably not hate buying a car from you (would still hate the negotiation part, though).

---

Regarding beer -- the three-tier model for all alcohol was codified into law after prohibition, so the only way to buy beer directly from the producer is to get it at the brewery (and wine at the winery, liquor at the distillery, depending on state/local laws). I do that all the time with my local breweries; at least in my state they can sell both bottles/cans and refillables.

Regarding Tesla -- most population centers have a Tesla service center, and Tesla does in fact offer loaners. It's likely that if you live in a place where it would need to be towed to a different state, a Tesla is not a good choice at this time for you anyway based solely around range and charging station availability. I have zero love for Tesla -- the company is a dumpster fire waiting to ignite -- but still, facts are facts.

And I ALWAYS buy my charging cables and accessories directly from Apple.

 

[csjlu]

I'm going to stick up for the downtrodden middle men out there, and in particular the little guys like Walmart. I'll concede that if your "value-add" as a middle man is simply getting in the way of a transaction and affixing your commission, you are not doing much and probably deserve the eventual disintermediation that is coming your way. But middle man companies like Walmart that aggregate consumer demand and use it to extract price concessions from vendors are lifesavers for lower- and middle-income Americans who live paycheck to paycheck. Several of my friends from grad school went to work for packaged consumer goods companies, and they all hate the annual trip to Bentonville to get hotboxed over the unit price of toothpaste or detergent.

The problem with car dealerships is they are set up as fragmented local monopolies, not as companies with national scale that can affect pricing and deliver value for buyers the way big box retailers like Walmart, Target and Costco can. No disrespect is meant to car salespeople - good ones are valuable, and I have one I like dealing with myself - but a Jeep dealership's primary competitive advantage is that they are the only Jeep game in town for a limited number of miles. They also tend to adopt monopolistic behaviors because Jeep buyers are brand loyal repeat buyers, the Wrangler is unique, and transparent price discovery is still near impossible in the industry.

When I grab something off the shelf at Costco, I know the markup is a hard 14%, most of which gets eaten up paying the local employees and operating the store box, and the net profit to the company is my $50-60 annual fee. Not so with the my Jeep dealer. While I like my guy and believe he deserves to eat, and I understand the dealership is a business and provides services other than being the chokepoint between me and a new Jeep, I would appreciate a little more cost/price disclosure given the size of the transaction. In my industry, there has been a groundswell of pricing transparency over the past two decades, but the irony has been that it has helped - not harmed - the industry.

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