ICE Break In?

[Luxy60]

Just picked up a '23 Willys 4xe, only 75 mile so far. I've been running strictly in hybrid mode and about 2/3 has been electric and 1/3 ICE. Plan to review the manual today, just wondering what others have done specifically to break in the 4 cylinder turbo engine?

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[Beachcomber72]

Just picked up a '23 Willys 4xe, only 75 mile so far. I've been running strictly in hybrid mode and about 2/3 has been electric and 1/3 ICE. Plan to review the manual today, just wondering what others have done specifically to break in the 4 cylinder turbo engine?

There is ZERO break in needed. Drive it and love it…

 

[diesel_dave]

So this question is probably going to have a somewhat controversial answer. In the regular owners manual, it says:

A long break-in period is not required for the engine and
drivetrain (transmission and axle) in your vehicle.
Drive moderately during the first 300 miles (500 km).
After the initial 60 miles (100 km), speeds up to 50 or
55 mph (80 or 90 km/h) are desirable.
While cruising, brief full-throttle acceleration within the
limits of local traffic laws contributes to a good break-in.

There is nothing about break-in within the 4xe supplement manual.

Personally, I tried to spend a lot of time in e-save mode those first 300 miles and I did several short WOT accelerations on the freeway. Theory behind all that was to try and keep the engine under load and the WOT runs possibly help the piston rings seat better (probably controversial if that's required). We'll see if that makes for any noticeable oil consumption as time goes on.

Bottom line, you probably don't need to do anything special. These aren't the engines of the 1970's.

 

[J0E]

So this question is probably going to have a somewhat controversial answer. In the regular owners manual, it says:

A long break-in period is not required for the engine and
drivetrain (transmission and axle) in your vehicle.
Drive moderately during the first 300 miles (500 km).
After the initial 60 miles (100 km), speeds up to 50 or
55 mph (80 or 90 km/h) are desirable.
While cruising, brief full-throttle acceleration within the
limits of local traffic laws contributes to a good break-in.

There is nothing about break-in within the 4xe supplement manual.

Personally, I tried to spend a lot of time in e-save mode those first 300 miles and I did several short WOT accelerations on the freeway. Theory behind all that was to try and keep the engine under load and the WOT runs possibly help the piston rings seat better (probably controversial if that's required). We'll see if that makes for any noticeable oil consumption as time goes on.

Bottom line, you probably don't need to do anything special. These aren't the engines of the 1970's.

I don't think that's controversial. Some may argue it's not required. That's how I broke mine in, per the manual.

These aren't the engines of the 1970's.

Or the 50's or 60's, or older. At some point they started spinning the new ICE with a hydraulic or electric motor at the factory to do 95% of the break in.

 

[Msquad]

With what I have learned now about these PHEVs, I wouldn't be using hybrid mode. Either all engine for the commute, or all electric. You don't want to end up in FORM. That is, the engine stopping and starting often doesn't seem to do the engine well in the cold with PHEVs.

 

[diesel_dave]

With what I have learned now about these PHEVs, I wouldn't be using hybrid mode. Either all engine for the commute, or all electric. You don't want to end up in FORM. That is, the engine stopping and starting often doesn't seem to do the engine well in the cold with PHEVs.

I've got to agree with you on this. At least, in the winter. In the summer, its probably fine as the oil is more likely to get up to temperature. Efficiency-wise, my intuition says its more efficient to either run the engine in its most efficient power-band OR run in full electric mode. Running the engine under light-loading with the aid of the electric system just seems like it would yield overall less efficiency than running either system in their most efficient operating domain.

 

[Luxy60]

I did't think there would be any special BI procedure for the ICE but since it's a hybrid it's conceivable someone who only uses the vehicle for short commutes and has ready access to fast charging stations might not fire up the ICE for very long intervals, like months. That could be an issue, when your not cranking the engine and lubricating internal components, especially the cylinder walls, gaskets, pressuring the cooling system, etc. Maybe it's a good idea to run the ICE intentionally, on occasion, to avoid these types of issues?

 

[Deleted member 59498]

Does the engine kick in even short commutes if you push the power?

 

[diesel_dave]

I did't think there would be any special BI procedure for the ICE since but since it's a hybrid it's conceivable someone who only uses the vehicle for short commutes and has ready access to fast charging stations might not fire up the ICE for very long intervals, like months. That could be an issue, when your not cranking the engine and lubricating internal components, especially the cylinder walls, gaskets, pressuring the cooling system, etc. Maybe it's a good idea to run the ICE intentionally, on occasion, to avoid these types of issues?

It will go into Fuel and Oil Refresh Mode at some point which will force the ICE to start and run so you don't have to worry about that too much. I imagine there are quite a few 4xes driving around with maybe a few thousand miles on them that don't even have 300 miles of ICE time though. Just due to people with very short all electric commutes.

 

[diesel_dave]

Does the engine kick in even short commutes if you push the power?

Yes it will. One of my least favorite things about it actually. You have to watch how far you push the pedal or your icy cold poor little engine will basically be tossed out of bed straight into a volcano. First time I pushed down a little too hard and that poor thing screamed to life and instantly went to 4,000 RPM I almost shit a brick. Now I am way more careful.

 

[Luxy60]

Yes it will. One of my least favorite things about it actually. You have to watch how far you push the pedal or your icy cold poor little engine will basically be tossed out of bed straight into a volcano. First time I pushed down a little too hard and that poor thing screamed to life and instantly went to 4,000 RPM I almost shit a brick. Now I am way more careful.

When I'm running electric I try to go easy on the accelerator just for that reason. While cruising on the HWY and the ICE kicks in after exhausting the battery, not as big a deal.

 

[Swisskidd]

I don't think that's controversial. Some may argue it's not required. That's how I broke mine in, per the manual.

These aren't the engines of the 1970's.

Or the 50's or 60's, or older. At some point they started spinning the new ICE with a hydraulic or electric motor at the factory to do 95% of the break in.

Through some web searches I found an interesting report, originally published in the Porsche community. While their break-in procedure is quite longer than what JEEP prescribes, it touched on the obvious observation many are making.
Here is a Copy/Paste Version:


New Engine Break-in Conundrum By: Ken Koop

Since I was a young boy, I have always wondered why it takes so long to break-in a new engine–especially those built by Porsche. Most people driving new cars also do not fully understand the real reason for the break-in period. Are you one of them? A good friend of mine just picked up his brand new 911 Turbo and complained about the break-in period taking so long (2,000 miles, not exceeding 4,000 RPM). We have talked about this issue many times over the past few years, always coming up with many scenarios of why such a long break-in period is required. However, we have never agreed on a reasonable answer. Well, you are about to find out the reason Porsche requires the break-in period it has today. The answer comes directly from the engineers at Porsche.

I was on a recent Porsche factory tour and was watching an engine being built and dyno tested. Each engine is built by a single person on a moving production line. Porsche feels that they can obtain better quality control with one person building an individual engine from start to finish. In addition, each engine builder can assemble every type of production engine that Porsche produces and every gasoline engine is still built at the Stuttgart factory. It takes 2-3 ½ hours to assemble each engine, depending on the type. Afterwards, the completed engines are either used in the cars produced at the Zuffenhausen factory or are boxed up and shipped to Leipzig (for the Cayenne and Panamera) or off to Finland (for the Boxster and Cayman).
Before all of the parts are assembled for a particular engine; the pistons, connecting rods and valves are individually weighed and grouped together using similar weights to optimize performance. They are put onto a cart that moves along the assembly line with each engine block. This cart contains every part required to assemble that particular engine which includes each washer, nut, bolt, bearing etc… As a result, if any part is left in the cart at the end of the assembly line, then—Houston, we have a problem!At the end of the assembly line, the engine is filled with Mobil 1 Synthetic Oil. Each engine is then dry run (without fuel), pressure tested and checked for leaks. Every car coming off the production line is also run on a rolling road dyno. This enables all cars and engines to be tested at highway speed before they leave the factory.



Some of the engines are also randomly selected to be tested on a dyno stand before they are installed into the car. The assembly plant has 5 dyno rooms located directly off the production line. The day I was on the tour, there were around 40 engines lined up on dollies. Some of these engines were in the process of being tested for quality control purposes. Once the engine is bolted onto the dyno, warm water is circulated throughout the engine to bring it up to temperature. The operator then starts the engine and checks for the correct pressures and temperature before the actual test begins. Engine speed is then increased in RPM steps to about 80% of its red line (the engine’s maximum RPM). The entire engine run takes around 30 minutes. Since each engine type (Turbo, GT3, Boxster or Carrera…) has a different red line, all of the data is recorded and analyzed after the test is completed.After the engine is turned off, the engine is again checked for seal leaks and its actual HP is compared to its advertised HP. To pass final inspection, the engine has to develop, at a minimum, 100% of what its advertised HP rating is. Also, the engine cannot produce more than 5% over that same advertised rating. If the engine falls out of those parameters, the engine is rejected and then torn down to determine why it did not deliver the anticipated HP.

When the test was completed, a Porsche engineer came over to review the results. I couldn’t resist asking the question that I had been searching to find an answer to for all these years. I asked “why does Porsche feel it is safe for a new engine to run at nearly full throttle in the factory, while the customer must keep the engine speed to no more than 4,000 RPM for a 2,000 mile break-in period?” I thought that was a logical question and if I do say so myself-well stated! The engineer replied, “Herr Koop, you do not understand (that I already knew). When we do our engine test, the metals inside the engine never reach the temperatures they would when driven on the street since the test session is fairly short. In other words, the bearings, pistons and cylinders never get a chance to thermally expand to their maximum. Therefore, there is little wear on the moving components. But when you drive a car on the street, the engine parts expand considerably more because of the heat being generated from the engine running for an extended period of time. No matter how tight the tolerances are, there is always a slight amount of expansion in the material. The moving parts can wear quickly if exposed to excessive heat and not always in a uniform way. We also constantly vary the speed and allow the engine to run at both high and low RPM’s”.

“Porsche wants the engine to break-in slowly, which means it needs to maintain a lower operating temperature (below 4,000 RPM) and to allow all parts to adjust (wear-in) within their own thermal expansion parameters. This is also the reason why Porsche wants the owner to vary the RPM throughout the break-in period; therefore the engine doesn’t get use to one operating temperature range”.

“Porsche has been using Mobil 1 Oil since the early 90’s. With its superior lubricating properties, it takes many miles of driving (without getting the engine too hot) before the components actually seat (or break-in). Porsche’s own tests reveal that after 2,000 miles have been driven, all of the moving parts have had a chance to wear into their adjacent surfaces and then an increase in engine RPM is permissible.” I replied, “JA DAS SOUNDS GUT, when you explain it that way, it makes a lot of sense.” I thought to myself “You Dummkopf, why didn’t you think of that”.

The engineer commented that there were many other moving parts other than the engine that needed break-in as well. Wheel bearings, constant velocity joints, tires, brakes and transmission were just some of the other components that were mentioned.

So breaking it down into layman’s terminology, it all comes down to; higher RPM equates to more heat, which leads to greater expansion. For a new engine, that can mean uneven wear on certain parts if excessive heat is allowed to build up. In Porsche’s opinion, the thermal expansion of different parts and various materials need time to adjust to one another. Porsche’s time frame for that to occur is calculated to be 2,000 miles, with the heat restriction being 4,000 RPM. So simple; who woulda thunk.

Many experienced Porsche engine builders and experts on the Flat-6 engine state that the peak power of a Porsche engine is developed around the 20,000 mile mark. This coincides with the principle of what the Porsche engineer was telling me; “Break it in correctly and the engine will last longer and perform better”.

It only took me 45 years to find out the real answer to this puzzling question. After I returned home, I explained this to my friend. As for our ongoing debate, we now feel a solution to this riddle has finally been reached. Neither one of us had the answer to this complex question totally figured out, but we were on the right path! I am finally able to resolve another one of my life’s unanswered mysteries and now it’s been crossed off the list. I hope this helps explain one of your unanswered questions in the car world as well.

 

[J0E]

“Porsche has been using Mobil 1 Oil since the early 90’s. With its superior lubricating properties, it takes many miles of driving (without getting the engine too hot) before the components actually seat (or break-in).

Interesting, I always break in a new engine with conventional oil.

The engineer commented that there were many other moving parts other than the engine that needed break-in as well. Wheel bearings, constant velocity joints, tires, brakes and transmission were just some of the other components that were mentioned.

Interesting, most shops have a break-in procedure for new differential gears. But new car's don't require that. I wonder if they do the same thing at the factory, spin them with electric or hydraulic motors, monitor temperature, friction, etc. Here's how @CarbonSteel explains it:

Also, (unless I missed it) be sure that you are doing proper heat cycles when breaking in new gears--particularly lower ratios like 4.88, 5.13, and 5.38. Unless you are in the frozen north that would preclude the use of it due to temperatures, I would also use a high quality 85W-140 gear oil to break them in like Valvoline, Lucas, Mobil, Chevron, etc.

I sure that I am in the minority of those who may be labeled as "overkill" on breaking in gears and even past that point with regards to maintenance.

For non-polished gears, I would:

1. Drive it for 15 minutes at low speeds (less than 45MPH) and stop and allow it to completely cool (no hard acceleration or deceleration) .
2. Repeat this 3x
3. Drive it for 30 minutes at speeds up to 55MPH and allow it to completely cool
4. Repeat this 2x
5. Drive it for 1 hour at speeds up to 65MPH and allow it to completely cool
6. At this point, heat cycles should be done and you can drive normally until you hit 500 miles, then do the below for the oil changes.
7. No towing until you hit 1000 miles.

1st Oil Change @ 500 miles - dump the shop oil and refill both axles with 85W-140 conventional
2nd Oil Change @ 1500 miles - dump the 85W-140 conventional and refill both axles with the same
3rd Oil Change @ 3000 miles - dump the 85W-140 conventional and refill both axles with 75W-140


To prevent having to do heat cycles, then have the gears REM Isotopic polished and just change the oil as above.

 

[BXFXJeep]

Does the engine kick in even short commutes if you push the power?

Yes it can, use the Electric button, and it tends to be a bit more forgiving with the pedal input.

 

[Valpo Jeep]

Many years ago I got to tour the Subaru assembly plant in Lafayette, IN and the last stage on the line was a dyno type station. They took it up to speed to list for driveline vibrations. Well the dude was listening for vibrations at about 100 mph…. On a motor with zero miles

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