I want the first 4xe Rubicon.

DadJokes

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My bad I forgot that two wrongs makes a right.
While the world has fossil fuels, it seems the ULTIMATE form of recycling is refurbishing, updating, ... evolving a preexisting infrastructure to improve efficiency rather than polluting to create an almost entirely new form of mass scale negative impacts that I alluded to.

I worry that in the hysteria to mitigate real and/or perceived negative human environmental impact...we may be creating an entirely new problem for future generations to rally against.

Can we? Yes. Should we...seems many aren’t able to objectively scrutinize EVERY possible negative before jumping in on an idea. Most, apparently, don’t want to be “that” guy or gal.





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mgroeger

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You guys should read the posts in the diesel threads before you jump into any new tech FCA designed and the worlds worst dealers will be servicing. Just saying.
^ THIS!

Good grief... I've got two 2018 with the 3.6L... in other words the one that has the most longevity and I've had so much warranty work done on each one it isn't even funny.
You couldn't pay me to take a diesel or electric Wrangler. I'd turn around and sell it asap... lol.
 

JimLee

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While the world has fossil fuels, it seems the ULTIMATE form of recycling is refurbishing, updating, ... evolving a preexisting infrastructure to improve efficiency rather than polluting to create an almost entirely new form of mass scale negative impacts that I alluded to.

I worry that in the hysteria to mitigate real and/or perceived negative human environmental impact...we may be creating an entirely new problem for future generations to rally against.

Can we? Yes. Should we...seems many aren’t able to objectively scrutinize EVERY possible negative before jumping in on an idea. Most, apparently, don’t want to be “that” guy or gal.
This is why I reject extremism, for anything. Unintended consequences are always hind sight. Example: When the US passed the ethanol mandate the price of grain tripled almost overnight in third world countries, including rice. My wife comes from a country where 80% of the people don't get three meals a day, she has nightmare stories about having nothing to eat but rice for weeks on end when she was young, it was the only thing they could afford, but it kept them alive. People in deeply impoverished nations literally starved to death because we though we had to reduce pollution and "save the world" when our government passed the ethanol mandate , I guess killing other people as long as you don't have to see it is "saving the world" to many Americans. But then again I've also noticed im my life that many Americans so called convictions only run as deep as their wallets or wants.
 

Gazelle

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...I've had so much warranty work done on each one it isn't even funny.
You couldn't pay me to take a diesel or electric Wrangler. ...
I sure hope I get lucky. Just placed a deposit on a 4xe Rubi. I'm not naive enough to think there won't be issues at first. I just hope they are easily solved with a SW update and not a series of full replacements...like with the lockers' sensors which requires a whole new axle assembly.
 

jmcdtucson

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While the world has fossil fuels, it seems the ULTIMATE form of recycling is refurbishing, updating, ... evolving a preexisting infrastructure to improve efficiency rather than polluting to create an almost entirely new form of mass scale negative impacts that I alluded to.

I worry that in the hysteria to mitigate real and/or perceived negative human environmental impact...we may be creating an entirely new problem for future generations to rally against.

Can we? Yes. Should we...seems many aren’t able to objectively scrutinize EVERY possible negative before jumping in on an idea. Most, apparently, don’t want to be “that” guy or gal.
Your worries make sense. And also, by doing nothing, or continuing to build out carbon-based infrastructure, we are just kicking the can down the road to our kids. There are a whole lot of smart people that seem to be quite sure that the downsides of a lithium battery infrastructure, while locally destructive, are far less impactful than planet-wide catastrophic climate change. Also a lot of smart people pushing nuclear power to charge those batteries: another technology with some localized risks but also vast benefits as a carbon-neutral alternative to coal and gas.
 

DadJokes

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Your worries make sense. And also, by doing nothing, or continuing to build out carbon-based infrastructure, we are just kicking the can down the road to our kids. There are a whole lot of smart people that seem to be quite sure that the downsides of a lithium battery infrastructure, while locally destructive, are far less impactful than planet-wide catastrophic climate change. Also a lot of smart people pushing nuclear power to charge those batteries: another technology with some localized risks but also vast benefits as a carbon-neutral alternative to coal and gas.
If they could just quantify the exact percentage or a “reasonable” guess that is mankind caused change...
 

jmcdtucson

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mgroeger

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Well I think it's safe to say this thread is well on it's way to becoming derailed and headed to global warming debate.
 

Fikestrel

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Well I think it's safe to say this thread is well on it's way to becoming derailed and headed to global warming debate.
We can fix this.

I have been debating the Rubicon versus Sahara. I like the appearance of the Rubicon, but I can't honestly say that I need the locker and swaybar disconnect. Everything else I can put on a Sahara with the SelectTrac with the Limited Slip differential.

I am considering getting a Sahara and putting 17" wheels and 33" tires on it (possibly Rubicon take-offs) and rock rails. I could get a front skid plate and have a pretty capable offroader without the complexity and weight of a Rubicon.

I'm afraid that the extra Rubicon weight will reduce my range in electric mode. I know that the larger tires that I want will reduce it some, but the extra skid plates and sway bars and lockers and steel bumpers and other stuff would seem to make it even heavier.

So, do I upgrade a Sahara to be similar to a Rubicon 4xe or get a Rubicon 4xe?
 

mgroeger

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We can fix this.

I have been debating the Rubicon versus Sahara. I like the appearance of the Rubicon, but I can't honestly say that I need the locker and swaybar disconnect. Everything else I can put on a Sahara with the SelectTrac with the Limited Slip differential.

I am considering getting a Sahara and putting 17" wheels and 33" tires on it (possibly Rubicon take-offs) and rock rails. I could get a front skid plate and have a pretty capable offroader without the complexity and weight of a Rubicon.

I'm afraid that the extra Rubicon weight will reduce my range in electric mode. I know that the larger tires that I want will reduce it some, but the extra skid plates and sway bars and lockers and steel bumpers and other stuff would seem to make it even heavier.

So, do I upgrade a Sahara to be similar to a Rubicon 4xe or get a Rubicon 4xe?
I don't know the exact numbers but a Rubi, even with steel bumpers, is not really that much heavier than a Sahara. Personally I would get the Rubi.
Famous last words... "I'll never use lockers or disconnect the swaybar." I wound up building my wife's Shara into a Rubi w D44 axles and lockers and a Rubi t-case sitting in my garage. Then I went and bought my friend's Rubi for myself.
We wheeled the heck out of her Sahara in AZ, UT and CO with open diffs (no LSD) and did great but our wheeling was headed to beyond that and we knew we needed lockers.
I will always recommend the Rubi over other models unless the person straight up states they want to mall crawl at which point I brush the dust off of my sandals and never speak to them again ;)
Thanks for pulling the thread back on track :)
 

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Agree that the Rubicon isn't that much heavier than a Sahara.

Also agree with the Rubicon recommendation. If nothing else, the resale will likely be higher.

My father is currently debating a new Gladiator Mojave. He doesn't drive anything more than gravel roads in Minnesota (Ojibwe Rally area), but he figures the resale will be higher like the JLUR/JKUR. Hopefully those fancy shocks like to suck-up washboard. :)
 

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I don't know the exact numbers but a Rubi, even with steel bumpers, is not really that much heavier than a Sahara. Personally I would get the Rubi.
Famous last words... "I'll never use lockers or disconnect the swaybar." I wound up building my wife's Shara into a Rubi w D44 axles and lockers and a Rubi t-case sitting in my garage. Then I went and bought my friend's Rubi for myself.
We wheeled the heck out of her Sahara in AZ, UT and CO with open diffs (no LSD) and did great but our wheeling was headed to beyond that and we knew we needed lockers.
I will always recommend the Rubi over other models unless the person straight up states they want to mall crawl at which point I brush the dust off of my sandals and never speak to them again ;)
Thanks for pulling the thread back on track :)
Before the most recent versions of the Rock Track (or whatever they are calling it now), they didn't have full-time 4wd which was a real bummer because it is a really bad in snow. when you go on and off snowy roads, you can't practically turn the 4wd on and off. That effectively makes those 4wd-only jeeps into rear-wheel drive death traps in the snow. Now the Rubicons have a full time 4wd mode that makes it much more compelling. I'd be curious to see a comparison of the full-time 4wd systems in the snow.
 

DadJokes

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That's a totally reasonable request. Luckily that has been extensively studied and that percentabe has been estimated at 100%.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-why-scientists-think-100-of-global-warming-is-due-to-humans
Then go on to explain and quantify how much over and beyond natural change that human activity exacerbates that change.
That's a totally reasonable request. Luckily that has been extensively studied and that percentabe has been estimated at 100%.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-why-scientists-think-100-of-global-warming-is-due-to-humans
They’ve been great at estimating the last 50 years they keep changing their prediction as to what is going to happen. I’m sure a lot of people contributed a great deal of their time to produce such a document. We could have used these experts to estimate better decades ago!
 

mgroeger

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Then go on to explain and quantify how much over and beyond natural change that human activity exacerbates that change.

They’ve been great at estimating the last 50 years they keep changing their prediction as to what is going to happen. I’m sure a lot of people contributed a great deal of their time to produce such a document. We could have used these experts to estimate better decades ago!
How about you two go take this offline? :) We finally got the thread back on track.
 

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