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Tncdrew

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Its about change. In my world, for many years jeeps had not doors, no tops, not much of anything. But they bulletproof. Unless you blew a clutch or a radiator, you could get back off the trail or back home.

Then came the YJ, what killed it was the square headlights, no one liked them, even I did not like them. So I ordered a Sahara anyhow and I ordered one with an auto trans and AC. Well the dealer wanted me to put down $3000 deposit, $1000 nonrefundable due to the auto trans. It was a good jeep, but ugly.

Then in 2003 I ordered a Rubicon and still today there is no better rock crawler than a TJ Rubicon and that straight 6 engine! What a combo. It was that which lit the fire under Jeeps and then the 4 door in 2007 and the world went crazy for Jeeps because it opened the market to families for the first time ever...and this is a good thing.

For those of you that have been Jeeping for 55 years, here is a little tidbit: The ONLY reason why Jeep stayed alive over all these years and from CEOs and buyouts by companies that HATED the Jeep (MB) was that Jeep was the most profitable vehicle sold in America as an individual car. I do not know what it cost to build a jeep pre-2000, but I worked for a Big 5 Audit and Consulting company and they were auditing the Corvette division, this would have been around 97. One of the auditors saw my corvette and asked if knew what the dead cost was to build out the assembly line door? He sald average cost was $19,xxx. when it rolled off the line. The base price was $37,345 and you add on to about $44k max. If Vette was built for $19k you can only imagine a Jeep I would guess about $7-$9k at that time.

Now its 2023 and I will order my 2 (TWO) door Rubicon when I get up to my dealer next week. Its going to cost me MSRP $60,XXX...I paid $21.XXX for my 2003 Rubicon (OK, I was consulting for Chrysler and got a special deal thrown in in my pay package).

Do we have a better Jeep? Yes and No. Yes its a GREAT rig, leather seats and heated too and the list goes on and on of goodness. Is it a better off road rig, perhaps if you get the right model but try this: My '03 Rubicon crossing a raging river in Table Mesa Az. It was almost dry river when we drove over about 7 am and by 5 pm going back home it was raging and getting higher due to a major storm up N that we never say. The group leader decided to try it and he got shut down. I went out my Jeep to get him, water is splashing over my windows and I had to roll them up, water in the Jeep almost to my chest. I winched with almost 2 full pulls to get him out (note to all: YES my Warn 9.5 Ti winch worked UNDER water). TJs did not have much in the way of electrics so I could make it.

Sidebar: There were 7 more Jeeps that did not cross, even tho I said I would get them if they faltered or got stuck, but they would not do it. This was Sat and me and the guy I winched out (his started) we headed home. The other 7 did not make it home until Monday. The sheriff's office sent a helicopter that dropped food, and water to them. They could cross the river until Monday afternoon.

The weak point on the high-end 2 and 4 dr is all the electronics IMO.

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Great story!!!

I agree with you about old vs new Jeeps. In the 80's & 90's I had a couple of early 80's CJ-7's. Loved those Jeeps! Especially the highly modified '83 I had.
I just purchased a new '22 2dr Willys. Drove 5hrs to a dealership to get it. It had 99% of the options I wanted.
When I arrived at the dealership, the owner of the dealership had 2 older Jeeps inside the showroom, a 2004 Hardtop Rubicon absolutely gorgeous with 30K miles on it, and an '81 Grand Wagoneer equally nice with ultra low miles...

It was all I could do to not walk out of there with that red '04 Rubicon instead of the '22 Red Willys!! 🤣🤣
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Old Jeeper

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Great story!!!

I agree with you about old vs new Jeeps. In the 80's & 90's I had a couple of early 80's CJ-7's. Loved those Jeeps! Especially the highly modified '83 I had.
I just purchased a new '22 2dr Willys. Drove 5hrs to a dealership to get it. It had 99% of the options I wanted.
When I arrived at the dealership, the owner of the dealership had 2 older Jeeps inside the showroom, a 2004 Hardtop Rubicon absolutely gorgeous with 30K miles on it, and an '81 Grand Wagoneer equally nice with ultra low miles...

It was all I could do to not walk out of there with that red '04 Rubicon instead of the '22 Red Willys!! 🤣🤣
I tried to buy and '04 Rubicon recently, it had 39xx miles on it, every option. They wanted $45k for it, I jumped on it and I called. The guy said I have other people coming to get it they said first here gets it, give me you number and I will you when it was gone. So I headed out and was halfway there, I had driven almost 100 mi and he called and said it was gone, sorry. He told me he had 8 people on the way. The Rubicon TJ is the best Jeep ever built, runner up would be the LJ.
 

No IFS

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IMHO , TJ sucked , I work in the off-road industry people didn’t love them. Always complaining about the ride the weak axles and brakes and the lack of power. People who like standards liked the five speed but the automatic sucked. The wrangler JL is 100 times better in every category.
 

Remorseless

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IMHO , TJ sucked , I work in the off-road industry people didn’t love them. Always complaining about the ride the weak axles and brakes and the lack of power. People who like standards liked the five speed but the automatic sucked. The wrangler JL is 100 times better in every category.
TJs with long arms rode great, but the short arms were just too short on them and they rode rough because of it. TJs practically begged for long arms. But yeah, that gen D30 and D44 were not overly robust, and the JL is the first time a Jeep has felt like it's not behind the curve in terms of braking performance.
 

Guitar Man

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Let's face it...4-door variants dominate the Wrangler market at around 80%. A lot of Wrangler products are not available in a 2-door option. This was a HUGE departure from the days when I had my TJ and the Quadratec catalog that I received in the mail (GASP! 🤯) ONLY contained stuff that related to MY Jeep (no Unlimiteds in those days).

In the first week alone, I have found info specific to my JLR that I had not found in my past several months of ownership! FINALLY information that I KNOW will relate to my Jeep!

I am tickled pink for this sub-forum! A big THANK YOU to all who got the ball rolling, and to those who made it a reality! :clap:
I love a 2dr sub-forum. Thanks to the starters. Didn't know 2dr was only about 20% sold. I think they look better. Nature likes things coming in two's. Applies to everything. Think about it.
What about the 2022s? Glad more items are becoming available for 2 door JLs but that depends on the year. I've been looking for a tonneau/cargo cover for my 2022.
Got the Rampage. It fit but all the straps hanging out and wrinkled fit on the roll bars looked cheesy. Returned it.
Got the Bestop. It fit but left a big gap behind the seats. Returned it.
Got the Mastertop. Specs are 18+ JL 2 door. Wrong again. Returned it.
Might have to wait a couple years for the vendors to take the 2022 models seriously.
Any help from the members would appreciated. (Btw, I personally called each of these venders to verify fitment before ordering.)
 

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desmo2

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What dimensions have changed from your '22 to the previous models?
 

Guitar Man

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What dimensions have changed from your '22 to the previous models?
Good question. Mastertop has one for the 2018+. When it arrived the box said 2018 to 2021. It fit from the roll bars back but sagged a good 8" behind the seats. It looks like the Bestop is just an extension to an add on top.
 

Remorseless

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Good question. Mastertop has one for the 2018+. When it arrived the box said 2018 to 2021. It fit from the roll bars back but sagged a good 8" behind the seats. It looks like the Bestop is just an extension to an add on top.
The dimensions haven't changed for the '22s. Those types of tops have always been a little more "rough and tumble" in the fit department than full tops as far back as I can remember.
 

Guitar Man

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The dimensions haven't changed for the '22s. Those types of tops have always been a little more "rough and tumble" in the fit department than full tops as far back as I can remember.
I bought one for my 2006 TJ a while back. There were several to choose from. The Bestop fit perfectly. Are you saying "Rough and tumble" is all there is for 2022 2 door? If so, I'll stop looking for now. You just saved me lots of investigative work.
 

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I bought one for my 2006 TJ a while back. There were several to choose from. The Bestop fit perfectly. Are you saying "Rough and tumble" is all there is for 2022 2 door? If so, I'll stop looking for now. You just saved me lots of investigative work.
Pretty much the best of the bunch is the Bestop Halftop ( Halftop™ Soft Top Jeep 2018-2022 Wrangler JL - Bestop | Leading Supplier of Jeep Tops & Accessories). Encloses pretty tight from what I've seen, at least relative to that style of top. I guess my recollection of the TJ windjammers/decks is different than yours, I remember those being pretty floppy and not really sealing up.
 

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Guitar Man

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The dimensions haven't changed for the '22s. Those types of tops have always been a little more "rough and tumble" in the fit department than full tops as far back as I can remember.
I checked out your 2012 JK Build. Great looking Jeep! To my point, there are at least SEVEN companies that have tonneau covers for it. Same for my 2006 TJ.
 

Guitar Man

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Pretty much the best of the bunch is the Bestop Halftop ( Halftop™ Soft Top Jeep 2018-2022 Wrangler JL - Bestop | Leading Supplier of Jeep Tops & Accessories). Encloses pretty tight from what I've seen, at least relative to that style of top. I guess my recollection of the TJ windjammers/decks is different than yours, I remember those being pretty floppy and not really sealing up.
Thanks. I talked to Bestop about a week ago. they told me their cover fit my Jeep so I ordered it. What they did not tell me is you have a 10" gap behind seats unless you also buy the halftop.
 

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Thanks. I talked to Bestop about a week ago. they told me their cover fit my Jeep so I ordered it. What they did not tell me is you have a 10" gap behind seats unless you also buy the halftop.
With the JL their options have expanded a lot, so I'm not shocked that even their sales/support people get lost. But yeah, that half top seems to seal up. @Bestop folks do frequent the forums a good bit, so may be worthwhile messaging them if you want to make double sure it's got what you want.
 

Guitar Man

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With the JL their options have expanded a lot, so I'm not shocked that even their sales/support people get lost. But yeah, that half top seems to seal up. @Bestop folks do frequent the forums a good bit, so may be worthwhile messaging them if you want to make double sure it's got what you want.
Thanks, I'll try that. If I talk to them by phone I get the people who are lost. If I message them, I can make double sure they are lost. Does messaging get to a different tier of knowledge? lol!
Seems like the wind jammer has become integrated with the cargo covers. Without it zipped to the wind jammer it sags. I don't want that feature.
Thanks again for your input.....I do appreciate it.
 

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IMHO , TJ sucked , I work in the off-road industry people didn’t love them. Always complaining about the ride the weak axles and brakes and the lack of power. People who like standards liked the five speed but the automatic sucked. The wrangler JL is 100 times better in every category.
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