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https://www.dieselplace.com/threads/lubricity-additive-study-results.177728/

From what I’ve read, and I know this isn’t a breakthrough as I’ve seen several people here mention it, the main problem with this engine that reduces its lifespan has to do with the CP4.2 HPFP and its design requiring more lubrication than ULSD can provide.

When this high pressure fuel pump self destructs (not too common but still a problem) it takes out the entire fuel system which can cost around $10k to repair.

So I’ve attached a link to a study of different additives, and its quite informative so I’ll just let it speak for itself. 2% biodiesel providing the best result with XPD (additive) a close second.

Another engine longevity hinderance is the EGR, and you can already get tuned by MRTuning to remove emissions components, but I’m still trying to figure out the exhaust solution to using that tune and how to block off EGR and DPF. Any input?

I’m not a diesel pro by any unit of measurement, so I’m really hoping people with experience using these products will chime in, maybe someone that uses HotShot or XPD. But I just want to spark some discussion and remove some of the fears behind the Diesel
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grostage

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Id be hesitant about putting anything in my tank that was from the counter of my local parts store...regardless of what ppm the sulphur content is of the diesel thats available to me.

Diesel is and always will be a light oil so why wouldnt it lubricate? im interested in extending my engines life but dumping snake oil into the tank of a 70K jeep is not for me...

If the fuel pump grenades that would suck but warranties are there for a reason. just stick to quality fuels, recommended oils and filters you should be good. Mine has been great so far and going on 10,000km. The EGR and DPF are not ideal but why would you want to dump more nitrogen oxides into the world? especially in its current state...thats just me though.
 

PillowFightr

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To me, i would have preferred if they sticked to the CP3 instead of "upgrading" to the CP4! All that is to probably save some weight and cut down on cost somewhere.. not smart :/




In reality though, even though the CP4 can fail, its not likely do so because in our 3.0 diesel engines, the pressure requirements are much much lower compared to the Duramax (thats where the failures have happened). I would not worry about this too much.

And as stated, i would not add any additives what-so ever! Maybe the HEET (water remover) but nothing else really!

What i personally would worry about, at around 120K miles, would be the DEF system.. Deleting that would be key, specially after the warranty is gone!
 
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MeekoDiesel

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To me, i would have preferred if they sticked to the CP3 instead of "upgrading" to the CP4! All that is to probably save some weight and cut down on cost somewhere.. not smart :/




In reality though, even though the CP4 can fail, its not likely do so because in our 3.0 diesel engines, the pressure requirements are much much lower compared to the Duramax (thats where the failures have happened). I would not worry about this too much.

And as stated, i would not add any additives what-so ever! Maybe the HEET (water remover) but nothing else really!

What i personally would worry about, at around 120K miles, would be the DEF system.. Deleting that would be key, specially after the warranty is gone!

Check out “powerstrokehelp.com” which is a shop run by a guy outside Atlanta Georgia. He’s had great real world results from lubricity additives in the fleets of vehicles his shop looks after putting hard city miles on. (Ambulances, buses, vans etc.) Problems such as injectors and EGR coolers being clogged are virtually gone now.

The gen 3 Ecodiesel Bosch CP4 pump runs 29,000 psi to the common rail. The Bosch CP4 which supplied fuel to various Duramax engines including the problem child LML (which had no in tank lift pump, our gen 3 Ecodiesels do) ran 29,000 psi to the fuel rail. The pressure requirements are the same for both engines. The flow requirements are likely different since one engine is twice as large, but both are at 29,000psi.

5C518C71-815E-4A70-8511-08BFD380AFD7.png
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PillowFightr

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Check out “powerstrokehelp.com” which is a shop run by a guy outside Atlanta Georgia. He’s had great real world results from lubricity additives in the fleets of vehicles his shop looks after putting hard city miles on. (Ambulances, buses, vans etc.) Problems such as injectors and EGR coolers being clogged are virtually gone now.

The gen 3 Ecodiesel Bosch CP4 pump runs 29,000 psi to the common rail. The Bosch CP4 which supplied fuel to various Duramax engines including the problem child LML (which had no in tank lift pump, our gen 3 Ecodiesels do) ran 29,000 psi to the fuel rail. The pressure requirements are the same for both engines. The flow requirements are likely different since one engine is twice as large, but both are at 29,000psi.

Jeep Wrangler JL How to extend the life of your 3.0D 4F52ED95-0649-4216-8E03-762D4CD253F1
Jeep Wrangler JL How to extend the life of your 3.0D 4F52ED95-0649-4216-8E03-762D4CD253F1
Thats interesting, I assumed the pressure requirements were different but it looks like the flow requirements are different, does this mean the CP4.2 in our diesels is seeing the same amount of "work" as the ones in the Duramax??

Or does the difference in flow requirements make it last longer??

I checked out the additives the are using on powerstrokehelp.com. People seem to confirm that it helps allot! But I have not read of any diesel jeep owners use it, they are mostly Duramax people. Either way, good info thanks for sharing :)
 

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MeekoDiesel

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Thats interesting, I assumed the pressure requirements were different but it looks like the flow requirements are different, does this mean the CP4.2 in our diesels is seeing the same amount of "work" as the ones in the Duramax??

Or does the difference in flow requirements make it last longer??

I checked out the additives the are using on powerstrokehelp.com. People seem to confirm that it helps allot! But I have not read of any diesel jeep owners use it, they are mostly Duramax people. Either way, good info thanks for sharing :)


I’m not sure about which pump sees the most “work”. The differences in volume flow could be the result of a simple regulator sending varying amounts of fuel to the injectors and some amount back to the tank. It could also be slight differences internally in the pump such as a larger stroke, or larger “pistons” in the pump. The CP4.2 is effectively 2 little pistons being pushed up and down by a gear driven cam.
 

JLURD

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I’ve been using XPD for 25,000 miles in my JLURD because I put 150,000 miles on Golf TDIs with the same stuff after seeing its performance data. My mpg bump makes the stuff nearly free to add for the peace of mind regarding injectors, HPFP, -30F fuel performance etc.
 

WXman

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What alarms me is the level of wear these engines are seeing. The guys posting their oil analysis reports are showing iron, aluminum, etc. that is double or triple universal averages for this engine (which I assume includes the Gen 2 engines also).

The million dollar question has been, why? Is it because of the new lightweight pistons and rings? Is it because they went away from traditional diesel oils and started to spec oils that were previously only used in turbo-charged gasoline engines?

It's hard to say why these engines seem to produce more wear metals, but from what I've seen in my oil filters at the end of an oil cycle, I wouldn't expect this to be a 250,000 mile engine.
 

TIPOVR

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Semi-related, I found the video interesting:
 

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JLURD

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What alarms me is the level of wear these engines are seeing. The guys posting their oil analysis reports are showing iron, aluminum, etc. that is double or triple universal averages for this engine (which I assume includes the Gen 2 engines also).

The million dollar question has been, why? Is it because of the new lightweight pistons and rings? Is it because they went away from traditional diesel oils and started to spec oils that were previously only used in turbo-charged gasoline engines?

It's hard to say why these engines seem to produce more wear metals, but from what I've seen in my oil filters at the end of an oil cycle, I wouldn't expect this to be a 250,000 mile engine.
Would be interested to see if those numbers are consistent across several production years of gen3 engines and over a variety of load/environmental conditions. Oil-specific changes could prove/disprove your hypothesis regarding the MS-12991 oil characteristics too.
 

WXman

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Would be interested to see if those numbers are consistent across several production years of gen3 engines and over a variety of load/environmental conditions. Oil-specific changes could prove/disprove your hypothesis regarding the MS-12991 oil characteristics too.
Yes, it would be really nice to get a few years' worth of data from guys across the country and put it all in a spreadsheet. Another year and we'll be able to do that.

So far, I've seen analysis reports from two labs (Oil Analyzers and Blackstone) and roughly 4 of the MS-12991 oils (Valvoline, Motul, Pennzoil, Amsoil) and the Rotella T6 which doesn't technically meet spec for these engines. What I've noticed is that the guy running T6 with 80k on the odometer already is seeing less wear and lower iron and aluminum numbers. The guys, myself included, running the MS-12991 oils are seeing very similar metal numbers in the samples regardless of oil brand or truck usage.

I find this very interesting. Like you said, hopefully time will tell us an even clearer story.
 

JLURD

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Yes, it would be really nice to get a few years' worth of data from guys across the country and put it all in a spreadsheet. Another year and we'll be able to do that.

So far, I've seen analysis reports from two labs (Oil Analyzers and Blackstone) and roughly 4 of the MS-12991 oils (Valvoline, Motul, Pennzoil, Amsoil) and the Rotella T6 which doesn't technically meet spec for these engines. What I've noticed is that the guy running T6 with 80k on the odometer already is seeing less wear and lower iron and aluminum numbers. The guys, myself included, running the MS-12991 oils are seeing very similar metal numbers in the samples regardless of oil brand or truck usage.

I find this very interesting. Like you said, hopefully time will tell us an even clearer story.
Wasn’t the issue with the 12991 that they wanted to reduce turbo coking? Maybe they’re trading increased internal wear for decreased turbo wear?
 

Frezski

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https://www.dieselplace.com/threads/lubricity-additive-study-results.177728/

From what I’ve read, and I know this isn’t a breakthrough as I’ve seen several people here mention it, the main problem with this engine that reduces its lifespan has to do with the CP4.2 HPFP and its design requiring more lubrication than ULSD can provide.

When this high pressure fuel pump self destructs (not too common but still a problem) it takes out the entire fuel system which can cost around $10k to repair.

So I’ve attached a link to a study of different additives, and its quite informative so I’ll just let it speak for itself. 2% biodiesel providing the best result with XPD (additive) a close second.

Another engine longevity hinderance is the EGR, and you can already get tuned by MRTuning to remove emissions components, but I’m still trying to figure out the exhaust solution to using that tune and how to block off EGR and DPF. Any input?

I’m not a diesel pro by any unit of measurement, so I’m really hoping people with experience using these products will chime in, maybe someone that uses HotShot or XPD. But I just want to spark some discussion and remove some of the fears behind the Diesel

Here is my .02. Yes the CP4 has been a long time issue. I would keep this in mind, but don't over stress it. This has been talked to death in both the Powerstroke (11-current) and Duramax (11-16, I believe they have dumped it at the start of the L5P for a Denso unit). Hell, I even believe Ram 3/4-1 tons used it for 2 years recently before dumping it for a beefed up CP3. High pressures and tight tolerances. You still have plenty of years to see what happens with more 3.0L owners regarding the issue. Aftermarket solutions to possibly convert, or minimize damage will eventually come, and from there you can make your best decision. I too have a CP4 in my truck. It has yet to fail. I have about 100k miles on it. I have friends that have it on their Duramax and Powerstrokes alike, and some has had issues, others have not and their mileage range greatly. A buddies shit the bed at 99K work miles as a roofer and their maintenance is religious. I have others with 160k+ that has yet to experience a failure. Some of them use additive as I do, but I am not religious about it, others don't. I will say I can notice a difference in just chatter noises in general when I run with it vs without it. Do what you feel comfortable technically it's not needed. However I do find it interesting Ford does have an additive you can buy for it that is similar to off the shelf stuff.

With that said, the best thing you can do to keep your HPFP happy.. Change your fuel filters when you're suppose to, ensure it's primed properly after to not create air or cavitation due to air in the system. Use fuel from reputable diesel stations, and don't accidently put DEF in the tank. Do these have lift pumps/LPFP? I only ask because if I recall Duramax's didn't have any sort of lift pump to draw fuel in the previous iteration. I thought I read that they didn't during the LML series. I could be wrong I am not a GM guy.

As far as the delete systems for emission treatment.. Good luck. Since the Feds have stepped in and made it their baby to reduce diesel emission NOx most performance retailers and manufactures stopped making it or selling in the US due to hefty nasty fines. Unfortunately for the most part this is the new norm. If you can find a way around it, and not have it inspected. Hey that's cool. Just don't roll coal and make it obvious. If you're going to keep it all intact, then my advice is to to put the motor to work, let the heat generate. When you go into Regen, then hop on the highway and let it do a complete burn if you can help it.

Again, sorry for the long winded post, there are other things to stress over. Enjoy your JL Ecodiesel!
 

Compression-Ignition

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Wasn’t the issue with the 12991 that they wanted to reduce turbo coking? Maybe they’re trading increased internal wear for decreased turbo wear?
I would bet the real deal is that the MS-12991 keeps the DPF cleaner, lengthening it's lifespan.
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