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ChattVol

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I haven't seen anything detailed on here providing an algorithm for diagnosing and fixing true DW and felt this method may help save folks alot of time, money and headaches. As parts wear out, this issue seems to eventually affect the majority of solid axle vehicles(especially when lifted) and I waded through ALOT of info dealing with recent DW that ran the full gamut. This included significant time researching, working on it, talking with a dealer, going to 2 offroad shops and talking with several very knowledgeable guys on here to learn how to isolate the root cause. Most know it can be caused by 1 issue or a multitude of issues combined and unfortunately, it seems there are alot of misconceptions and many Jeep owners/dealers/offroad shops don't know how to properly diagnose it and simply give up or blindly start throwing costly new parts at it. Or they resort to blaming the steering stabilizer...when in reality, a properly setup jeep should be able to drive without DW with the steering stabilizer taken off.

At 29k miles, my jeep began experiencing true DW driving 25-45mph over certain pot holes/manhole covers and I had to brake below 5mph or stop the jeep for it to stop. I slowly drove home and retorqued everything and worked with an experienced friend performing steps 1-4 listed below without fixing it. I then tried to ask the lead mechanic at my dealer if he would check ball joints while the jeep was there for yet another electrical issue. The mechanic referred me to a well known local offroad shop(no surprise...it's lifted 2.5" on 37s) and they couldn't find the cause after 3 days and essentially did nothing more than what I had already done and even charged for it.:lipssealed:

I took it to another shop that claimed they would do whatever it took to find the root cause or they wouldn't charge anything. This shop had a different approach and was calculated...it was apparent they had alot more experience working on DW. They treated it like the jeep has a 100% curable disease and they're a physician trying to efficiently and cost effectively isolate the root problem(s) and fix it. They had a checklist for ruling out potential causes beginning with the most common that are the least expensive/easiest to check. They also emphasized the importance of properly inspecting each part because many people unknowingly overlook issues and spend alot more $/time chasing it than should be needed. Below is the algorithm that was used and I will be following in the future:

1. Have a knowledgeable person lay under jeep with someone rocking the steering wheel back and forth from 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock and look closely for movement/slop in the trackbar/draglink/tie rod bushings and then firmly pull on them to see if you get any movement. It's even better to do this with a tire against a curb to add stress to help uncover slop in a bad joint. Pay careful attention to the trackbar joints as it seems to the be the culprit the majority of the time. Also, pull on control arms to see if anything feels loose. If any joints or brackets have movement, inspect further and check mounts/brackets to see if welds look good and nothing is obviously bent/flexing. Retorque or replace as needed and test drive it.

2. With the jeep on the ground, loosen bolts in trackbar/draglink/tie rod and control arms and rock the jeep and then retorque to spec to make sure bolts weren't loose or bound up. Check lugnut torque and grease joints if you have greasable joints and haven't recently. Test drive jeep.

3. Lift each front tire off the ground at the axle and use a pry bar under tire to lift up and check for movement at ball joints. This typically works if ball joints are in very poor shape flopping around. However, you likely won't see movement if the ball joints are moderately bad and arent applying preload to the knuckles like mine and several others have experienced. Ball joints may still be the root cause of DW, so dont rule them out based on this test alone. The 1st offroad shop I took it to stopped at this step and thought they had eliminated ball joints as the cause bc they didn't see any movement and they felt it was unlikely on a 2 year old jeep with 29k miles mainly riding on lightweight wheels and 33" and 35" ko2's. Fully inspecting them requires significant labor removing the brakes & knuckles and is addressed in the last step.

4. Check shocks and steering stabilizer(bolts and compression for consistent compression/extension) and make sure steering box is bolted to frame at proper torque.

5. Have wheels/tires rebalanced dynamically....or better yet, swap on a friends set of wheels/tires.

6. Check alignment and caster.

7. Retorque ball joint castle nuts to spec and insert new cotter pins.

7. Time to start swapping in different steering parts and checking the bolt holes to see if they are wallowed out and then test driving it after each new part. I had my takeoff stock parts available and used them. Begin with trackbar and test drive it...and then draglink, tie rod.

8. If none of that is fixing it, you're narrowing it down to ball joints or steering box with ball joints being much more likely. Time to get serious and have an experienced shop disassemble the brakes/knuckles and check preload on ball joints.(6 hour ish job) The mechanic said my ball joints weren't applying preload on the knuckle, but were not flopping around like you see with ball joints that are completely shot. He said that is a classic sign that the ball joints are the culprit and replaced them with Dana Spicer ball joints and reassembled everything.

With the new ball joints, the jeep drives like new. Very frustrating and drawn out experience....glad it's resolved! :jk:
Jeep Wrangler JL How to Beat Death Wobble! (An Algorithm to Diagnose The Issue) giphy.com
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Glamisfan

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Best one I’ve ever seen on death wobble! Can we please make this a sticky?
 

MarkY3130

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Nice work. I'd add checking air pressure of tires/trying a different pressure (usually try higher psi) to the list. I may even suggest #5 be moved to a numerically lower position on the list. Though when death wobble is occuring they all seem pretty equally important.

I went through the whole list above about a year ago and was able to solve my death wobble. Now though, if my street pressure is below about 35 psi I can feel additional wobble, not death wobble, but more wobble. Tells me I'm due for a tire rebalance after a year of a lot of wheeling and chewing up the tires.
 

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ChattVol

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Nice work. I'd add checking air pressure of tires/trying a different pressure (usually try higher psi) to the list. I may even suggest #5 be moved to a numerically lower position on the list. Though when death wobble is occuring they all seem pretty equally important.

I went through the whole list above about a year ago and was able to solve my death wobble. Now though, if my street pressure is below about 35 psi I can feel additional wobble, not death wobble, but more wobble. Tells me I'm due for a tire rebalance after a year of a lot of wheeling and chewing up the tires.
From everything I've gathered, adjusting tire pressure below 35 psi should not be the root cause of true death wobble or even a shimmy if your tires are balanced and everything else on that list is properly addressed. I'd wager your tires are out of balance a touch and/or you have a loose/sloppy steering joint.
 

MarkY3130

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From everything I've gathered, adjusting tire pressure below 35 psi should not be the root cause of true death wobble or even a shimmy if your tires are balanced and everything else on that list is properly addressed. I'd wager your tires are out of balance a touch and/or you have a loose/sloppy steering joint.
I think we are principally in agreement on all this. I'm just suggesting if you add air to your tires and it helps the situation, then it assists in narrowing down your issue to your tires. (Like needing a rebalance, etc.)

About a month ago I did have my wife sit in the Jeep and turn the wheel back and forth just so I could check all the joints out ahead of a trip to Moab. Even put it on stands and checked the ball joints. Everything checked out fine. Pumped a few more PSI in the tires and took it for a spin and my slight wobble was gone. Pretty much confirmed I need to get the tires balanced.

With temps fluctuating between 10 and 70 degrees here lately, I've just had to add air here and there and all is good. One of these days I'll make it in to get them balanced again.

I like these Milestar Patagonias but they have required more rebalancing than any tire I've ever used.

I commend you for writing up this thread on a topic that has a lot of passion and opinions behind it. I have had to go through death wobble diagnosis a few times on the Jeeps I've owned and I found your list to be very similar to how I look at tackling it.
 

rms110

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I haven't seen anything detailed on here providing an algorithm for diagnosing true DW and felt this method may help save folks alot of time, money and headaches. As parts wear out, this issue seems to eventually affect the majority of solid axle vehicles(especially when lifted) and I waded through ALOT of info dealing with recent DW that ran the full gamut. This included significant time researching, working on it, talking with a dealer, going to 2 offroad shops and talking with several very knowledgeable guys on here to learn how to isolate the root cause. Most know it can be caused by 1 issue or a multitude of issues combined and unfortunately, it seems there are alot of misconceptions and many Jeep owners/dealers/offroad shops don't know how to properly diagnose it and simply give up or blindly start throwing costly new parts at it. Or they resort to blaming the steering stabilizer...when in reality, a properly setup jeep should be able to drive without DW with the steering stabilizer taken off.

At 29k miles, my jeep began experiencing true DW driving 25-45mph over certain pot holes/manhole covers. I slowly drove home and retorqued everything and worked with an experienced friend performing steps 1-4 listed below without fixing it. I then tried to ask the lead mechanic at my dealer if he would check ball joints while the jeep was there for yet another electrical issue. The mechanic referred me to a well known local offroad shop(no surprise...it's lifted 2.5" on 37s) and they couldn't find the cause after 3 days and essentially did nothing more than what I had already done and even charged for it.:lipssealed:

I took it to another shop that claimed they would do whatever it took to find the root cause or they wouldn't charge anything. This shop had a different approach and was calculated...it was apparent they had alot more experience working on DW. They treated it like the jeep has a 100% curable disease and they're a physician trying to efficiently and cost effectively isolate the root problem(s) and fix it. They had a checklist for ruling out potential causes beginning with the most common that are the least expensive/easiest to check. They also emphasized the importance of properly inspecting each part because many people unknowingly overlook issues and spend alot more $/time chasing it than should be needed. Below is the algorithm that was used and I will be following in the future:

1. Have a knowledgeable person lay under jeep with someone rocking the steering wheel back and forth from 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock and look closely for movement/slop in the trackbar/draglink/tie rod bushings and then firmly pull on them to see if you get any movement. It's even better to do this with a tire against a curb to add stress to help uncover slop in a bad joint. Pay careful attention to the trackbar joints as it seems to the be the culprit the majority of the time. Also, pull on control arms to see if anything feels loose. If any joints or brackets have movement, inspect further and check mounts/brackets to see if welds look good and nothing is obviously bent/flexing. Retorque or replace as needed and test drive it.

2. Loosen bolts in trackbar/draglink/tie rod and control arms and rock the jeep and then retorque to spec to make sure bolts weren't loose or bound up. Check lugnut torque and grease joints if you have greasable joints and haven't recently. Test drive jeep.

3. Lift each front tire off the ground at the axle and use a pry bar under tire to lift up and check for movement at ball joints. This typically works if ball joints are in very poor shape flopping around. However, you likely won't see movement if the ball joints are moderately bad and arent applying preload to the knuckles like mine and several others have experienced. Ball joints may still be the root cause of DW, so dont rule them out based on this test alone. The 1st offroad shop I took it to stopped at this step and thought they had eliminated ball joints as the cause bc they didn't see any movement and they felt it was unlikely on a 2 year old jeep with 29k miles mainly riding on lightweight wheels and 33" and 35" ko2's. Fully inspecting them requires significant labor removing the brakes & knuckles and is addressed in the last step.

4. Check shocks and steering stabilizer(bolts and compression for consistent compression/extension) and make sure steering box is bolted to frame at proper torque.

5. Have wheels/tires rebalanced dynamically....or better yet, swap on a friends set of wheels/tires.

6. Check alignment and caster.

7. Retorque ball joint castle nuts to spec and insert new cotter pins.

7. Time to start swapping in different steering parts and checking the bolt holes to see if they are wallowed out and then test driving it after each new part. I had my takeoff stock parts available and used them. Begin with trackbar and test drive it...and then draglink, tie rod.

8. If none of that is fixing it, you're narrowing it down to ball joints or steering box with ball joints being much more likely. Time to get serious and have an experienced shop disassemble the brakes/knuckles and check preload on ball joints.(6 hour ish job) The mechanic said my ball joints weren't applying preload on the knuckle, but were not flopping around like you see with ball joints that are completely shot. He said that is a classic sign that the ball joints are the culprit and replaced them with Dana Spicer ball joints and reassembled everything.

With the new ball joints, the jeep drives like new. Very frustrating and drawn out experience....glad it's resolved! :jk:
Jeep Wrangler JL How to Beat Death Wobble! (An Algorithm to Diagnose The Issue) giphy.com
Very informative! Thanks
 

TxJeepers

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I’m having synergy steering and Dana hd ball joints installed next week. Hoping it finally solves the dw issue I’ve been fighting for about the last six months or so. Jeeps at 26k miles, most of which on 37s and wheeled multiple times in mostly rocks.
 

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ChattVol

ChattVol

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I’m having synergy steering and Dana hd ball joints installed next week. Hoping it finally solves the dw issue I’ve been fighting for about the last six months or so. Jeeps at 26k miles, most of which on 37s and wheeled multiple times in mostly rocks.
Sorry to hear that...it can be very frustrating to fix. Are you saying you've dealt with death wobble for 6 months? Or a shimmy? I couldn't imagine dealing with DW for that long...it makes a jeep dangerous to drive and is also hard on all the joints. Mine went into DW 2 times simply driving 30-40mph for 15min from one offroad shop to the other one and I had to slow below 5mph for it to stop. Thankfully, it never happened at speeds above 45mph.

It's certainly possible that the ball joints are the root cause. The stock ball joints failed at 29k miles on mine...it was stock for first 8k miles, lifted 2.5" on 35s for 18k miles with positive offset 26lb wheels and then 37s the last 3000 miles on 0 offset 27lb wheels most of the time. Probably did 15 easy to moderate wheelin trips with the majority on 35s and 2-3 tougher wheelin days on 37s.

You'll get it solved if you follow this algorithm and you/offroad shop doesn't overlook things. What trackbar are you running? If you haven't tried it, I'd swap in another trackbar first and test drive it. If that doesn't help, add synergy draglink/tie rod and test drive it. If that fixes it, you could hold off on upgrading ball joints now and save alot of $. :fingerscrossed:

Best of luck!
 
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rayzjeep

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I’m having synergy steering and Dana hd ball joints installed next week. Hoping it finally solves the dw issue I’ve been fighting for about the last six months or so. Jeeps at 26k miles, most of which on 37s and wheeled multiple times in mostly rocks.
Let us know if it fixes it....I have a small shimmy that I'm thinking might be ball joints.
 

SSinGA

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My $.02

Step 1 and 2 should be combined. Check for obvious looseness in all joints/connections. Don't just tighten loose bolts check for mount hole oversize in the frame and axle. Install and retorque. (control arms should be torqued with the jeep on the ground especially those with fixed rubber bushings)

Steps 5 and 6 need to be done before step 4. Caster and wheel balance are more likely culprits that the steering stabilizer.

Factory ball joints are junk and have been through the JK model. They are an easy DIY replacement and you can borrow the specialty tool needed to remove and install from most auto parts stores. Just make sure you get the full kit and not the smaller 1/2 kit.
 

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Man, I have had this Jeep since July 2018 and I am now getting a severe death wobble at 50000 miles. @JeepCares

Any little road bump from 30-55mph causes the Jeep to go out of control. I have to slow down under 30 mph most of the time. This past weekend it wobbled out of control going 65mph on the freeway ramp. I had to slow down to 35 mph and caused some traffic.
It’s becoming severely scary and dangerous to drive the Jeep. It’s happening more and more often now.
 

jlsahara

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I’m not a happy Jeeper. My first Jeep and I’ve had it over two years but this happening and me being out of warranty is really pissing me off. Considering it can be many things, it’s going to be expensive to figure out this death wobble.
I have a Steer Smart drag link and Trackbar going in on Monday and if that doesn’t solve the issue, I might be done with Jeep. This death wobble is dangerous and the fact they’re not being proactive about it is really disappointing @JeepCares
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