How Important is Torque for Off-Roading

Humvee4us

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I have another post in this forum comparing and contrasting the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon with a few off-road pickups. As such, I got curious and begun calculating the total amount of force that each wheel can get as this should be a very good measure of how capable a vehicle is off-road. For example, if it's very muddy the more force the better, right? Or in the snow, or a steep increase, or to climb a rock. The larger the force, the easier it becomes. So I did some calculations and something like a Ford F 350 Tremor, even with a significantly lower crawl ratio and taking into account the much heavier weight, each wheel on the Tremor should have significantly more torque due to the fact that the Tremor's engine produces so much torque. So does this mean that physical size of the truck excluded, the Tremor should get stuck much less often than the Jeep Wrangler and also be able to climb steeper hills?



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txj2go

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Not sure what you're getting at?

Where there are discussions of "torque" the benefit is if the engine has more torque at lower speed, that way you don't have to rev the engine as much or change gears as much to move, it makes it more flexible to drive. Horsepower is really what makes the vehicles move, despite the arguments that better torque (meaning better low end torque) makes the vehicle faster. A wider power band will help but some engines with good low end torque run out of horsepower quickly at higher rpms. 2 engines with equal horsepower will pull the vehicle the same if each is geared to take advantage of its horsepower. However you wouldn't want a Honda S2000 engine in your Rubicon because you would have to run it at much higher rpm.

With sufficient low range gearing you get all the torque multiplication you want. I've seen Wranglers and WK2s in low range on steep rock spin all 4 tires at the same time. It is hard to use more torque than that, at least for rock crawling.
 

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Your tires are going to lose traction before your motor runs out of torque to turn them.
 

aldo98229

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^^^ this!

Without traction, torque is useless.
 
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Humvee4us

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So then for off-roading adding a bigger engine with more torque, such as the new diesel engine available only for the 4 door Wranglers, that's not going to help me at all when off-roading? I already have all the torque that I could need, the tires would lose traction before my engine runs out of torque?
 

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You are pushing the right front tyre over a big lump. If you have little torque, than as you get to the top of the lump, the tyre has less resistance and the vehicle will take off like a rocket!

With lots of torque, then after reaching the top, you can gently lower it down the other side.
.
 

MeanMrWolf

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So then for off-roading adding a bigger engine with more torque, such as the new diesel engine available only for the 4 door Wranglers, that's not going to help me at all when off-roading? I already have all the torque that I could need, the tires would lose traction before my engine runs out of torque?
Part of the advantage a diesel has is its low end torque. You want torque as low into the power band as you can get it for control.
 

Amaruq

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Just out of curiousity, because you seem really passionate about the joy of off-roading (which is awesome): how much experience do you have driving off-road? Rock crawling?
 

scrape

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Engine torque is only important if you have a manual transmission and not enough gearing. Then it can help you crawl without stalling all the time or having to slip the clutch.

With an automatic OR if you have deep enough gearing with a manual, then it doesn't matter.

So then for off-roading adding a bigger engine with more torque, such as the new diesel engine available only for the 4 door Wranglers, that's not going to help me at all when off-roading? I already have all the torque that I could need, the tires would lose traction before my engine runs out of torque?
Dude the rubicon has something like an 80:1 reduction in 1st gear 4low. Let's say the 3.6 v6 makes 50 ft/lbs of torque at 1000rpm. After an 80:1 reduction that is 4000 ft/lbs of torque at the wheels, before drivetrain losses. You need more than that?
 

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Gearing converts low torque at high RPM into high torque at low RPM, and vice-versa. A diesel-electric locomotive does away with gears and clutches and accomplishes a similar result by converting the diesel engine's high torque into electricity, which is applied through a control system to electric motors which drive the traction wheels. An ideal Jeep Wrangler might consist of an engine similar to the 3.0 (or even smaller) diesel with an E-torque auxilliary system for very high torque when needed with very refined control. Such a vehicle would have two on board sources of stored energy, one being the fuel tank and the other being the moderate-sized battery. Demand for very high torque or engine full power is never continuous in real world driving, on or off road, and the ICE engine could easily supply normal power demands while keeping the chemical battery charged and available to supply substantial additional auxillary power on demand, such as in certain off-road situations or on ramp/passing or towing situations on road. The battery side of the system would suffer no high-alititude power loss, which could be an advantage in certain situations. It could collect power on downhill sections, and return it on uphill stretches, saving fuel, wear, and brakes.
 

txj2go

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Horsepower is a number. Torque is force.
They're both numbers, torque is a twisting force, horsepower is a measure of power, it's torque times speed.

Engine torque is only important if you have a manual transmission and not enough gearing. Then it can help you crawl without stalling all the time or having to slip the clutch. With an automatic OR if you have deep enough gearing with a manual, then it doesn't matter.
Having a wider torque band, or torque at lower rpm just means you can run the engine at lower rpm so it doesn't sound like you are killing it, and with manual transmission it is more flexible because you don't have to shift as often.
 

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I have another post in this forum comparing and contrasting the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon with a few off-road pickups. As such, I got curious and begun calculating the total amount of force that each wheel can get as this should be a very good measure of how capable a vehicle is off-road. For example, if it's very muddy the more force the better, right? Or in the snow, or a steep increase, or to climb a rock. The larger the force, the easier it becomes. So I did some calculations and something like a Ford F 350 Tremor, even with a significantly lower crawl ratio and taking into account the much heavier weight, each wheel on the Tremor should have significantly more torque due to the fact that the Tremor's engine produces so much torque. So does this mean that physical size of the truck excluded, the Tremor should get stuck much less often than the Jeep Wrangler and also be able to climb steeper hills?
Pickups compared to jeeps.....Weight distribution my friend....apples to oranges...can't compare...totally different vehicles and behaviors on any surfaces. I know, cause I have a pre-runner Mazda on 35's and used to have a TJ on 33's...can't compare...at all...sorry.

what your trying to compare is like trying to compare a motorcycle acceleration on quarter mile based on torque to the acceleration of a car on the same track. I see comparisons like these all the times made by Trolls on forums to see people's reactions....;)
 











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