How difficult it would be to equip the Sport with a front locker

[Therby]

Gotcha.. So, potential for unpredictable control in 4x4 on slick roads. I just don't know if I'd want to stay in 2WD when it snows... then again... if it's THAT easy to put in, maybe it's something I could swap in/out depending on the season... hmm.. snow tires on, lunchbox out...

I do use 4LO quite a bit on my property (steep grade, wet clay/mud, sometimes dragging trees, stumps, trailers full of gravel, etc.). So far I haven't had much trouble with open diffs, but, I've had to game the BLD a bit from time to time to get going. That's why this easy DIY locker setup sounded appealing.

My black Jeep doesn't have the LSD... maybe a bit worse for traction, but better for longevity? My green Jeep has it, but it's mostly a gently driven grocery getter. Hopefully it'll hold up to the rigors of my wife's commute. I've seen quite a few reports of the LSD having a short lifespan.

im the same way, might do the locker and take it out every winter. Lot of work but worth it. Essentially with the lunchbox you only have 4low offroad. You loose all 4hi capability of the jeep with that locker in the front.

my rear LSD is done and worn out after 30k and two years of good abuse fyi

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[swflfireguy]

69 Original, did you have any problems doing the install? I have been perusing YouTube vids today and one showed that they carrier wouldn't accommodate the locker unless the ground it the interior to help install the heard/discs. Did you experience anything like this?

 

[entropy]

Gotcha.. So, potential for unpredictable control in 4x4 on slick roads. I just don't know if I'd want to stay in 2WD when it snows... then again... if it's THAT easy to put in, maybe it's something I could swap in/out depending on the season... hmm.. snow tires on, lunchbox out...

I do use 4LO quite a bit on my property (steep grade, wet clay/mud, sometimes dragging trees, stumps, trailers full of gravel, etc.). So far I haven't had much trouble with open diffs, but, I've had to game the BLD a bit from time to time to get going. That's why this easy DIY locker setup sounded appealing.

My black Jeep doesn't have the LSD... maybe a bit worse for traction, but better for longevity? My green Jeep has it, but it's mostly a gently driven grocery getter. Hopefully it'll hold up to the rigors of my wife's commute. I've seen quite a few reports of the LSD having a short lifespan.

I would personally not install a lunchbox locker on a wrangler JL. The vehicle is too expensive to cheap out on the locker like that. Specially since it isn't a dedicated off-roader. I would rather wait until a good LSD like detroit is available, the type that don't work with clutches are really really good and will probably meet your needs. In fact, a good LSD will probably be better for you than a dedicated locker.

LSD works really well even offroad as long as you don't increase the tire size. At least with the clutch ones that's how it works, and probably why so many people are breaking their rear LSDs running 35s, or even 33s. Heck I am still running my oem clutch based rear locker with the ~32 AT oem tires and they lock extremely well. Knock on wood. There's all these people bitching about the LSD, but I mean.... if you get heavy tires on the axles and throw your jeep on rocks, I don't know what you expect out of a clutch based system lol... the rotational inertia of the tire will obviously overwhelm the system! people get these huge tires without really knowing all the cons about increasing tire size.

 

[Karnak]

I'll just add that there are trail types where you DON"T want the front locked or you want it "selectable to be ON or NOT"....anyone that was in a tight turn at the bottom corner of a muddy curve trail with trees or rock walls on each side knows this, with a front lunchbox, you front end will often times push straight out in very low muddy hole traction and you simply can't turn because there is no traction and you get stuck on all the trees "one by one" because you can't turn.

The opposite is also true when its dry, imagine having to turn left or right on full wheel lock while navigating rocks but where your wheel still have traction and no wheel is spinning in the air or mud, you ARE putting a lot of strain on that front end while your back end is trying to push that front straight out and while your trying to go left or right full turn with your steering. If you want to have to upgrade all your steering components for super HD ones all the time afterwards, lunchbox is the way to go, you'll be changing those OEM Balljoints and knuckles shortly after.. .

When you have a dis-engageable locker, you can click it off just for that meter of turn you need, then put it back on if you need it again after. A lunch box locker works and is very cheap, but it has its limitations and people should be aware of those.

And BTW, comparing Baja racing trucks running lunchboxes with our "street" jeep...don't think our front axle/kuckles/joint components in general are made with the same strength, yes, the locker itself will hold...but...

 

[Therby]

I'll just add that there are trail types where you DON"T want the front locked or you want it "selectable to be ON or NOT"....anyone that was in a tight turn at the bottom corner of a muddy curve trail with trees or rock walls on each side knows this, with a front lunchbox, you front end will often times push straight out in very low muddy hole traction and you simply can't turn because there is no traction and you get stuck on all the trees "one by one" because you can't turn.

The opposite is also true when its dry, imagine having to turn left or right on full wheel lock while navigating rocks but where your wheel still have traction and no wheel is spinning in the air or mud, you ARE putting a lot of strain on that front end while your back end is trying to push that front straight out and while your trying to go left or right full turn with your steering. If you want to have to upgrade all your steering components for super HD ones all the time afterwards, lunchbox is the way to go, you'll be changing those OEM Balljoints and knuckles shortly after.. .

When you have a dis-engageable locker, you can click it off just for that meter of turn you need, then put it back on if you need it again after. A lunch box locker works and is very cheap, but it has its limitations and people should be aware of those.

And BTW, comparing Baja racing trucks running lunchboxes with our "street" jeep...don't think our front axle/kuckles/joint components in general are made with the same strength, yes, the locker itself will hold...but...

i agree mostly, having a rear locker on is harder to turn than a front.

torq has tested this on 35s without issues, if anything you shaft or ujoint will go bang. Maybe ring and pinion.

not sure its going to break your balljoints and knuckles though.
Just have to learn how to drive with it and you’ll be fine, at 500 its a lot more appealing than 1500 for a selectable. And not worth investing that much into a dana30. Run the torq, hope for the best, if it breaks upgrade

 

[Tdkrum5]

I have a Unlimited Altitude with the m186 in front m220 LSD rear. I checked on regearing to 4.88 front and rear with ARB lockers. It can be done but its some bank. I now just scored some almost new Rubi take offs with 4.88s from a guy who went to D60s front and rear and 40s. The cost of these take off axles and having them installed is less then the re gear and lockers in mine. Work is scheduled for March.

 

[rockitfuel]

With regard to the FAD, the upside is that your axle shafts are dissconnected in 2WD and the down side is that this negates the point of the FAD. You sorta get worst of both worlds with the FAD as your drve shaft now spins in 2WD and only your driverside or non fad side axle drives the drive shaft. Not a big deal but the new whine comming from the front at highway speeds is irritating.

I still don't understand why we would expect to hear clicking during tight turns on pavment in 2WD when the axels are not connected due to the FAD.

 

[Jamrock]

I have a Unlimited Altitude with the m186 in front m220 LSD rear. I checked on regearing to 4.88 front and rear with ARB lockers. It can be done but its some bank. I now just scored some almost new Rubi take offs with 4.88s from a guy who went to D60s front and rear and 40s. The cost of these take off axles and having them installed is less then the re gear and lockers in mine. Work is scheduled for March.

Please give us an update when the changes have been made.

 

[69 ORIGINAL]

i like it, what size tire are you running?

I am so sorry for the 4 month delay in response. Just seeing this question now. I am running 35” Toyo Open Country Rough Terrain tires.

 

[69 ORIGINAL]

How’s the clicking with your Spartan?

Sorry for delayed response. I only engage the front when I’m on trail - not on pavement. So, really not a lot of clicking. If I’m turning hard while crawling, there is some wheel pull and lurching, but not a big deal as you are crawling anyway. The traction is awesome.

 

[69 ORIGINAL]

With regard to the FAD, the upside is that your axle shafts are dissconnected in 2WD and the down side is that this negates the point of the FAD. You sorta get worst of both worlds with the FAD as your drve shaft now spins in 2WD and only your driverside or non fad side axle drives the drive shaft. Not a big deal but the new whine comming from the front at highway speeds is irritating.

I still don't understand why we would expect to hear clicking during tight turns on pavment in 2WD when the axels are not connected due to the FAD.

There is no clicking if you are not in 4WD - actual experience.

 

[Yogi]

With regard to the FAD, the upside is that your axle shafts are dissconnected in 2WD and the down side is that this negates the point of the FAD. You sorta get worst of both worlds with the FAD as your drve shaft now spins in 2WD and only your driverside or non fad side axle drives the drive shaft. Not a big deal but the new whine comming from the front at highway speeds is irritating.

You can solve that problem by using manual locking front hubs. Pretty sure Warn makes a set for under $500.00.

 

[RowdySouth]

Some ideas in this video for you. Watch a few competitor videos and reviews to explore your full options. I'm leaning towards helix/worm for my TJ from another mfgr. My rear differential is awful - drained it and large metal bits. Probably the clutch breaking down after 20yrs. at 105k miles. Currently on the original D30/35 and debating D44 or just replace the diffs. Its just money #jeep.

 

[rockitfuel]

You can solve that problem by using manual locking front hubs. Pretty sure Warn makes a set for under $500.00.

I was considering that, along with going with a 2 axle set up skipping the FAD, turning the the quick $400 mod to $2500... standard Jeep stuff

 

[entropy]

In my opinion. A front selectable locker is the way to go and absolutely makes sense, even with the dana 30. The JL dana 30 is very strong, much stronger than the JK iteration. It can handle the locker with 33s no issues.

But I am not sure about 35s. And if I was going 35s id also be looking into regearing, at that point it makes more sense to find rubi axles takeoffs imo. But many say the sport is perfectly able to handle 35s and we are probably overthinking this whole thing. It all depends on how hard you wheel, any axle would break under the right conditions and a stronger axle will always give more security. If you wanna wheel hard, get new axles.

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