How can something so basic be FUBAR - Steering - Time to make a stand

[melman8r]

your observation on the 3 jl test drive is one thing and all ready address from other posters ( and valid input). i was addressing the part of the 1000s of complaints that your are reading. also it sounds like your are going to jump to a conclusion a bit too fast if one thing is out of place. if your ordered jl show up on the lot with bad steering,you're just going to walk a way from it and not have the service department fix it as a recall. when i test drove and purchase my jl (that was on the lot) that day, it wandered but i can tell that the steering was not the issue. it was the tire pressure set at 47 psi. adjusted the pressure and its all good. hey it's your decision and best of luck in your future in owning a jl. beside this tread have gotten way out of hand and the topic was about a lifted jl with 35s having problems.

I agree, the trolls really get out of control on these forums.

Sponsored

 

[Rudolph Hart]

All three were Rubicon hard tops, the first was manual, second was auto and the third was manual. All driven at speeds not exceeding 45 mph. I don't buy it's a "Jeep thing" and I refuse to drink the Kool-Aid while looking the other way and trying to convince myself problems don't exist. There are damn near a thousand complaints with the NHTSA concerning steering issues with the Wrangler JLs. I do have an opinion and I guess I have the same body perceptions as those folks that filed complaints. I am looking forward to owning a Jeep in the future, waiting on Sarge green.

OK, we have the final sales figures from FCA for 2019 so we can do the numbers.

In the 2 years 2018/19 Jeep sold a total of 468,064 Wranglers. For the same 2 years the NHTSA has received a total of 942 complaints relating to ‘steering’ issues.

That’s 0.20%.

 

[KnG818]

OK, we have the final sales figures from FCA for 2019 so we can do the numbers.

In the 2 years 2018/19 Jeep sold a total of 468,064 Wranglers. For the same 2 years the NHTSA has received a total of 942 complaints relating to ‘steering’ issues.

That’s 0.20%.

Now, for fun..

Let's just take that percentage 0.20% and multiply that by 942 = 1.8 (let's say 2 for eas of numbers).

Considering the fact not one accident has been reported that was directly related to steering malfunction, I think it's safe to say maybe 1 or 2 Jeeps (out of nearly ½ million) actually had an issue with steering(maybe).

(that equates to about 0.0004% of 468,064 sold)

The rest of those complaints can be chock'd up to be unhappy new Jeep owners who either didnt(or dont) understand what they've bought.

 

[df007]

Yep definitely just a Jeep Thing / SFA / market expansion issue.

 

[99wishes]

Now, for fun..

Let's just take that percentage 0.20% and multiply that by 942 = 1.8 (let's say 2 for eas of numbers).

Considering the fact not one accident has been reported that was directly related to steering malfunction, I think it's safe to say maybe 1 or 2 Jeeps (out of nearly ½ million) actually had an issue with steering(maybe).

(that equates to about 0.0004% of 468,064 sold)

The rest of those complaints can be chock'd up to be unhappy new Jeep owners who either didnt(or dont) understand what they've bought.

Here you go again with bad information. You turned data into assumptions and opinion (but now you are saying there might be a steering issue). If you would do a search on the forum, there is a complaint filed with NHTSA claiming 2 deaths and an open investigation regarding the loose steering.

Twisting numbers like is dumb, useless, and misleading. Why are you so fixated on this one issue and proving you know something about it? Again maybe find another thread or stick to real information on this one. Since it’s Monday you can go back to being a VP.

And just so you know, I don’t fully agree with the OP, but I will support his thread. Was the title pretty aggressive? Yes. Should he have attached his comments to another existing thread? Yes. Will he get help from FCA? Doubt it, but who does beyond a few buybacks? It’s the dealership that really does. He has gotten more help from the dealership than I would have imagined because of his modifications. I still wish him the best.

 

[KnG818]

Here you go again with bad information. You turned data into assumptions and opinion (but now you are saying there might be a steering issue). If you would do a search on the forum, there is a complaint filed with NHTSA claiming 2 deaths and an open investigation regarding the loose steering.

Twisting numbers like is dumb, useless, and misleading. Why are you so fixated on this one issue and proving you know something about it? Again maybe find another thread or stick to real information on this one. Since it’s Monday you can go back to being a VP.

And just so you know, I don’t fully agree with the OP, but I will support his thread. Was the title pretty aggressive? Yes. Should he have attached his comments to another existing thread? Yes. Will he get help from FCA? Doubt it, but who does beyond a few buybacks? It’s the dealership that really does. He has gotten more help from the dealership than I would have imagined because of his modifications. I still wish him the best.

I did say "just for fun"(algorithm may be pretty close to fact however)

The earth "might" get hit by an asteroid as well. No such thing as a perfect vehicle.

Site me your source.

I'm not fixated on it...I'm sick of people like you bitching about something you have no clue what your talking about.

You sound dumber than a bag of rocks, get lost Jeep dont want people like you.

 

[99wishes]

I did say "just for fun"(algorithm may be pretty close to fact however)

The earth "might" get hit by an asteroid as well. No such thing as a perfect vehicle.

Site me your source.

I'm not fixated on it...I'm sick of people like you bitching about something you have no clue what your talking about.

You sound dumber than a bag of rocks, get lost Jeep dont want people like you.

LOL, I am dumb? Was that basic math or an algorithm? You are the one making baseless claims. How do you know I have no clue? Please tell us where you pulled your data from to all of sudden say it’s a fact.

You are the one bitching and frustrated. Being angry doesn’t help your grammar. Clearly you will never get it, but it’s easy for people to see through your facts. Please find a thread you find interesting and can contribute to. Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[aldo98229]

Hey all, back with an update on the Jeep.
Saturday they did an alignment to get a starting point. This week they have some technicians coming in to look things over and see if they can find a reason for the issues.

As my Jeep has had all four issues, wobble , drift, (not a bad wobble or drift for me - manageable) locking steering and no steering when turning the steering wheel (the big issues), they asked if i could do without the jeep for a week so they could basically take it apart and dissect it - i said yes so here we go - again we shall see

There was a recall for 18-JL's built in Feb & March 2018 for a bad weld/crack development on the steering column that could allow the spline to slip or something, however my Jeep was not built during that time but they are looking at this also just in case. They are trying!

heard "Lots of buy backs going on over the steering issues" at the dealership!

So if they cant fix it
I found this kit on the net that is potentially a fix for the issues, anyone familiar with this kit?? $3,000
Let me know what you think.

PSC Motorsports Big Bore XD Series Steering Kit w/ Cylinder Assist for 18-20 Jeep Wrangler JL with 3.6L

Details from their site
Larger tires require steering upgrades in your Jeep Wrangler JL. The PSC Big Bore XD Series Steering Kit w/ Cylinder Assist provides the premium upgrade needed to handle the increased torque loads. Offering kits compatible with the Dana 30, Dana 44 and Dana 60 front axles. Allowing your to turn with ease and focus more on the terrain you're about to tackle. PSC offers the performance steering you desire with the quality your Jeep deserves.
Please Note: Programmer required to override the factory electro-hydraulic pump functions.

Features:

• 
  
  
  • Increased torque output
  • Relieves stress on steering gearbox & frame mounts
  • Steering Assist Cylinder acts as a dynamic steering stabilizer
  • Eliminates excessive on-center play at the steering wheel
  • Eliminates electro-hydraulic pump overheating
  • Increased Torque Output turns for 37-44" tires
  • Improved turning capability especially with engaged lockers

Recommend 4-7 Degrees Positive Caster: Positive caster increases alignment torque keeping the driver in control of the Jeep. Allowing you to travel at high speeds going down the highway in a straight line without drifting. Decreasing the effort it takes to turn those massive heavy tires. This will also increase negative camber gain while turning for wider tire contact.

No Welding Required: Making for an easier installing that is 100 percent bolt on. (with factory tie rod configuration)

maybe a potential fix for the issues

Let me know what you think on this.

I’m happy to hear your dealer is taking your issue seriously and looking to fix your heavily modified Jeep. That’s already more than the average dealer would do.

But A THREE-THOUSAND DOLLAR FIX for a $50,000 Jeep still under warranty...? Are you serious...?!?!?

 

[Jamrock]

I'm not worried, you're misunderstanding my observations, my third and final test drive was vastly different than my first two previous drives. The best way to describe it is put an ice cube in your mouth and immediately you get burned. Not what I was expecting, when my Jeep arrives if it wanders all over the road, it will stay on the dealer's lot because i have experienced better handling on two previous examples. To shrug it off as a "Jeep thing" is just plain silly to me, especially when we are dealing with mechanical parts and components.

Okay... Wranglers will never give you the same ride as your typical street car. They are built primarily as off road capable vehicles and use different technology. Having said that, there appears to be a real issue where some units perform significantly worse than the average wrangler. I have seen too many posts about the steering issues on some units to believe it is a myth.

The good news is that after market vendors appear to be addressing the issue. I have read good reviews of the products by Synergy and Steersmart. Take a look at this thread.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/synergy-vs-steersmarts.31428/

Jeep is selling record numbers of Wranglers these days. Perhaps that explains the increase in complaints. I don't know. At any rate, I have not seen any evidence to suggest that FCA will be addressing this issue anytime soon.

The reaction from some members of the forum might seen strange to you. Many are hard core off roaders and are wary of the calls for change. Jeeps are some of the best off road vehicles available. They don't want any changes to be made that diminish the Wrangler's ability to handle tough trails. They are willing to sacrifice some on road performance to maintain the existing off road performance.

They believe that you should buy a Jeep if you want to go off roading. If you want a regular street car, you should purchase something else.

This video from Extreme Terrain really helped me to understand the issues affecting Jeep performance when used as a regular street car (mall crawler).



We could also discuss the issues that happen when you have been running your Jeep for a few years and tie rod ends, etc. get worn. That is a discussion for another day.

 

[BigGreen]

The original post sounds like a failure with the adaptive electric steering. The control module thinks you're running highway speeds and tightens up the possible degree of turn for example. Wouldn't be surprised if that's the root of a lot of the steering issues, the adaptive part not realizing if it is high speed or low speed.

I had intermittent wandering issues until they did the v41 recall.

 

[99wishes]

OK, we have the final sales figures from FCA for 2019 so we can do the numbers.

In the 2 years 2018/19 Jeep sold a total of 468,064 Wranglers. For the same 2 years the NHTSA has received a total of 942 complaints relating to ‘steering’ issues.

That’s 0.20%.

It’s hard to argue with real data. There’s one major fallacy with these numbers but it’s a good start. These numbers assume everyone knows about NHTSA and everyone who had an issue has filed a complaint with them. A more accurate analysis would include dealer complaints. That’s where most people address their issues.

Yep definitely just a Jeep Thing / SFA / market expansion issue.

What df007’s comparison shows is steering is by far the biggest issue being reported to NHTSA which is interesting.

 

[Rudolph Hart]

It’s hard to argue with real data. There’s one major fallacy with these numbers but it’s a good start. These numbers assume everyone knows about NHTSA and everyone who had an issue has filed a complaint with them. A more accurate analysis would include dealer complaints. That’s where most people address their issues

Well they’re the facts we have available, unless somebody can supply some conflicting data I think most of us would be inclined to believe them.

Given how noisy and active those with complaints about the steering issues are on social media I find it difficult to believe that there are significant numbers who aren’t aware of the NHTSA. Even if you double the number of complaints it’s still less than half a percent.

 

[KnG818]

Well they’re the facts we have available, unless somebody can supply some conflicting data I think most of us would be inclined to believe them.

Given how noisy and active those with complaints about the steering issues are on social media I find it difficult to believe that there are significant numbers who aren’t aware of the NHTSA. Even if you double the number of complaints it’s still less than half a percent.

Go easy before that snowflakes head expodes.

 

[Rudolph Hart]

Go easy before that snowflakes head expodes.

Well it seems that the majority aren’t allowed to counter the hysteria in here doesn’t it.

Sponsored