Hot Take - Is Stellantis really that bad?

[BXFXJeep]

I agree 100% everybody that's all about electric cars and will never own another ice car and blah blah blah they literally have to change their life to fit around their fucking car or their life is just that shit.

It's dumb.

No people absolutely do not have to change their life with an EV.

Some people probably are forced to make changes, and they most likely made the wrong choice, that's a common thing, some made the decision the benefits of an EV far outweigh the small changes, like wasting time going to a gas station, when they simply plug in their car when they get home.

I think the people that bought an EV, and it didn't suit them, didn't do proper research, which is really common sense, and they just blindly follow the jones, or greed made them chase the government subsidies, rule of thumb, if the government is paying you to make the wrong decision, chances are, you are making the wrong decision.

Look at Hertz they are dumping EVs in a massive fire sale, EVs as mass rental in 2034 is dumb, and should have been known, rental companies using 4xe, this is even dumber, there is zero benefit with a PHEV if you do not charge it, and who have time in a strange city hunting through a handful of broken chargers, then spending 2 hours to charge it, and at the end of the day, they don't even know how to drive a 4xe.

One late summer night when I went to get my 4xe at a charger in an empty parking lot, there was a girl there with a rental Tesla, struggling to charge the Tesla.

She said the rental people said she just need to plug it in, I'm guessing they were talking about a Tesla super charger. Here she is in a strange city, in the middle of the night with a dead EV, at a slow level two charger, that has a 2 hour maximum limit, which requires someone to download a specific app, sign up, enter a credit card, then start charging. BTW this location have 4 chargers, 2 don't work, one have a finicky cable. So really only one properly working charger. This is basically a Jerry can with a padlock and a bunch of keys.

Ultimately it seems most people are rejecting EVs, and that's a good thing, EVs should be available for some of us, but absolutely not for mass adoption.

The major downside of an EV is your neighbour cannot fix em, you have to depend on the dealership, and we know how well that goes, the new EV companies probably do a better job, I don't know, but sure as the big 3 have always been horrible at service even for simple gas vehicles.

I'll say it again EVs isn't about saving the planet, it's about banning private vehicles for the masses, so don't buy an EV if it does not suit you.

The main problem with Stellantis is greed. Several years ago, the CEO stated that he thought they were leaving money on the table, and that people would pay more for a Jeep. That greed has led them to where they are today.

I think what is meant by leaving money on the table, with the sheer number of people that were paying tons of money installing poor quality 3rd party mods, so why not capture that money straight from the factory.

And it works for Stellantis, almost no one wants a barebones Wrangler.

Greed is mismatching parts across the Wrangler trims, which makes it difficult for people to use quality takeoffs for cheap.

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[VKSheridan]

Remember when Jeeps were assembled with actual fasteners, not cheap ass plastic clips? It is demoralizing how anyone can defend a ridiculously priced vehicle that is snap together like a dime store toy.

The operating system in the radio head looks like something that would be considered too primitive for an Atari 2600.

Pop an electric connector and look at all that dielectric grease that’s been skipped to save money yet allows pins and sockets to turn green. Count the wire strands and muse at the paper thin insulation.

Only a full blown lunatic would agree plastic radiator tanks, hose tees and fittings should cost triple their counterparts made of brass, aluminum or stainless steel. Don’t even get me started on the banana oil paint that bubbles, peels and sticks only to the inside of your wallet.

Snap in harness clips that get brittle and fail within a year of purchase, brake lines that swell because their rubber walls are too thin, steel fuel lines that crack because they’re so thin the seam failed bonding. What’s not to love?

Two batteries and start stop added because fuel and emissions standards couldn’t be met with a friggin turbocharged 4 cylinder? A ‘76 Ford Pinto with a smog pump did better.

In a time of global inflation, only someone totally out of touch would mass produce Grand Wagoneers at a price of $110,000 to sell to doom spenders at 8% interest for 84 months.

As much as I want to call out Stellantis for ruining the brands they represent, I blame the consumer. We buy crap, bitch and then buy more. McDonald’s is crap for quality, crap for convenience and crap for price yet they’re making record profits. Ford‘s no different, the Lincoln Navigator is a joke absent a comedian and Bronco owners are still trying to determine the plastic to steel ratio……

 

[Bulletbill]

Jeeps generally get a bad reputation from people who should never have bought one in the first place. They want the image, but don’t understand the function of the vehicle they are buying.

They envision a life style that doesn’t exist for them. They then experience only the negatives and bitch incessantly about it.

Why I am glad the Bronco exists. It’s the perfect vehicle for those who want to make it seem like they are into the outdoors, but it drives nice enough that they never have to justify taking it off road. Why the majority of Bronco drivers I see are soccer moms who likely gave up their Jeep.

 

[siggy]

The JL is not a Stellantis product. It is an FCA product. Stellantis barelly had a chance to make any major decisions since the merger that created Stellantis.

The JL is not a bad product, but it needs more investment to remain competitive. For example Bronco offers 37" tires on the Raptor and 35" tires on pretty much every model. F150 offers 37" tires. No Jeep product offers 37" tires. How can Jeep be upstaged in the most important thing for offroading - tire size. And it is infinitely easier to lift and add bigger tires to to solid axle vehicles. Ford did the engineering. Jeep? Nothing and even their 35" package is a kludge with no updravel.

The other item that Jeep needs to address is dealer and customer service. Folks buying $60K Wrnaglers and $100K Grand Wagoneers are being treated like hobos by dealers and Jeep. I love my JL, but I'm sick and tire of the endless run around to fix my hinge corrosion - they have worn me out. The only reason I hang on to my JL now is because I belong to an awesome Jeep off-road club.

You really put a lot of weight on 37’s. F-150’s and Broncos are much larger than Wranglers. A Wrangler, while often looking great on 37’s, may simply not appeal to the masses. Raptors have to have 37’s to look proportional since they’re so damn massive.

 

[NWJeepr]

We lease a BMW iX and it's been a great EV for us. We lease for future uncertainty around EV tech, and questionable residual value. Although it's basically become our daily driver, it's an addition to a fleet of ICE. It's been a great car, it's very mechanically simple, and we've had zero problems with it. My sister has a 4xe and it's been a good Jeep for her. We actually prefer the EV on road trips, it's just a more comfortable vehicle. As long as we have a handful of chargers available along the way, we have no worries and can be flexible with our stops, much like an ICE. The car's nav is tied into the battery and it very accurately predicts remaining SOC at destinations, and suggestions on where to charge.

But back to my statement about poor execution on Stellantis' behalf. The genpop is politically charged and skeptical, highly critical, and also fearful of EV's. Don't release stuff unless it's been thoroughly tested. Gut-check stupid things like Fratzonic chambers, and trying to sell a $70k EV Charger to the Duke Brothers. They can't afford it, and they much prefer their 15 year old "General Lee" LX-based Challenger with a yee-yee boat anchor 5.7. Is what it is! And Stellantis, and so many other automakers, need to get behind that.

 

[gato]

Then again, the Pacifica was voted the most unreliable vehicle in America two years in a row yet it was the best selling minivan of 2024.

Being the best selling minivan is like being voted the sexiest 70 year old at the beach. Nice achievement, but no one notices as minivans are quickly fading stage left.

The other issues you raised (thank you) are exactly what causes the brand perception to tank. Dealers are being nickel and dimed by Stellantis and have little technical support, parts availability and TSB timeliness are a joke. This just further frays the dealer/customer relationship.

If Jeep is charging Lexus and BMW prices, with multiple vehicles with $100K+ MSRPs on the lot, this will not fly. Maybe customers put up with it once or twice while a hot vehicle like a Wrangler 392 or Hellcat is a novelty - but they won't put up with it long term.

 

[gato]

You really put a lot of weight on 37’s. F-150’s and Broncos are much larger than Wranglers. A Wrangler, while often looking great on 37’s, may simply not appeal to the masses. Raptors have to have 37’s to look proportional since they’re so damn massive.

Not just me. There is a huge number of Wranglers on 37, 38, 39, 40" tires.

You can say tire size does not matter as much as you want, but even Jeep panicked when Ford had the Sasquatch package with 35s from the get go and had to do a rush job on their 35" tire.

Never discount the role of the halo products to help sell the rest of the line up.

 

[2nd 392]

Not just me. There is a huge number of Wranglers on 37, 38, 39, 40" tires.

You can say tire size does not matter as much as you want, but even Jeep panicked when Ford had the Sasquatch package with 35s from the get go and had to do a rush job on their 35" tire.

Never discount the role of the halo products to help sell the rest of the line up.

Rushed halo Bronco beater 2020 Concept

Note the tire size …..…
Production

………………………. 285/70
even the first promo video just before the Bronco release with two running around in the sand one looked like it had 37’s (it looked like the concept)

 

[TheBirdie72]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just won’t waste your time rehashing what others above me have said. For my part…

 

[siggy]

Not just me. There is a huge number of Wranglers on 37, 38, 39, 40" tires.

You can say tire size does not matter as much as you want, but even Jeep panicked when Ford had the Sasquatch package with 35s from the get go and had to do a rush job on their 35" tire.

Never discount the role of the halo products to help sell the rest of the line up.

Do you own a Bronco on 37’s?

 

[Jared1956]

If the JL was steel instead of aluminum, and was priced like the JK adjusted for inflation, this thread wouldn’t exist.

The corrosion issue is unacceptable, the pricing is unacceptable….the rest…..meh…..it’s a Jeep thing.

 

[alphawolff]

Not just me. There is a huge number of Wranglers on 37, 38, 39, 40" tires.

You can say tire size does not matter as much as you want, but even Jeep panicked when Ford had the Sasquatch package with 35s from the get go and had to do a rush job on their 35" tire.

Never discount the role of the halo products to help sell the rest of the line up.

I think putting 37s on a production vehicle is silly. 35s are the absolute maximum you want on a JL if you're doing mainly on-road driving. The power, fuel economy, and general drivability take a massive hit once you get to 37s and above. It's a lot of weight.

I'm plenty happy with my XR 392. It doesn't need to be bigger

 

[rforbes]

I think putting 37s on a production vehicle is silly....

I agree with you. If you aren't going 40s what's the point!??!

 

[TS2016]

Another casualty. Freehold Jeep dealer closing in 2weeks. Rumor is 2024 sales were down 15 million from 23.

 

[alphawolff]

Another casualty. Freehold Jeep dealer closing in 2weeks. Rumor is 2024 sales were down 15 million from 23.

I'm not sure if this is a casualty of the current climate or there's so many damn options for jeep dealers within a 30 minute drive that unless you're competitive you're going to get zoned out

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