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Help me decide - Sahara or Rubicon Recon

Dkretden

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So here is a question for you guys - the 2020 was a turbo etorque engine the new 2021 drops the “etorque” does anyone know what that means or how it will impact the vehicle performance?
There are entire threads on this. I would suggest that you will find a lot of good discussion there rather than the malarkey in this thread.
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QC22

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So are you going to explain how turbos make no boost at low rpms? It does sound like I'm speaking with a sales guy.
Turbos make boost whenever there is exhaust flow. I still have no idea what your point is. Initially twin turbos were a solution to low end and high end boost. Now twin scroll types do a decent job of covering both ends. Annnddd, I have no idea why you keep mentioning low RPM. Are you aware that today's truck engines make full torque at 900 RPM? It's not about RPM, it is about exhaust flow. Yes, less at light loads (power), but today's turbos, and the engines they are bolted to, do quite well at lighter loads, thank you. BTW, one can always tell an engine neophyte by the use of rpms. The Rs are already plural ;)
 

Ohio Hiker

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At low rpms, the turbo doesn't produce boost and it's like a non-turbo 2L meaning it's not as responsive and probably overloaded. The 2T gradually becomes a match for the 3.6 only as the rpms go up.
I have the 2L and am very satisfied with it. I'm not sure why you are so against it. It is very responsive in my daily drive in city traffic and when I need it to get up and go it does the job. Not as well as my wife's former Mustang GT 5.0 but it does the job.
 

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Why would I listen to advice from an owner that has the steering wheel on the wrong side of the vehicle? Additionally, he drives on the wrong side of the road. As a result I would guess any conclusion he makes is wrong!

Although I've had several 3.6 engines and never had an issue, I did test drive the 2.0T and didn't feel any turbo lag at all. The old car turbos from the 80's sucked badly but not in today's world.

My comments come from experience not because I just wanted to type a bunch of nonsense.
 

limeade

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That’s only because of COVID. Be honest. LOL (I’m kidding)

for me, the Rubicon is WAAAAY overkill. So is the sport. I should have purchased a Subaru and lifted it. Seriously. My use case needs a Rubicon like I need a moon buggy. That said, I really liked the looks of the Rubicon and. Screw it, I’m buying it........
You live in Denver, CO.......how can you not justify having a Rubicon?? HAHAHA

There are thousands of miles of mountain trails of varying difficulty just a stones throw away. Those mountains are literally screaming: buy a Rubicon and come on up!!

I can justify having a Rubicon cause I have miles and miles of forest service and BLM land and trails within 1 mile of my house. If I lived in an area with little to no public land and trail system, then it would be hard to justify the added expense of a Rubicon.
 

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limeade

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Can you get a rubicon without the red dashboard? That was a feature I liked in the Recon - the black dash. Thanks!
Yes, you can get it with the gray dash, but it depends on exterior and interior color combinations.
 

limeade

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So here is a question for you guys - the 2020 was a turbo etorque engine the new 2021 drops the “etorque” does anyone know what that means or how it will impact the vehicle performance?
eTorque includes a 48 volt battery pack (located under the driver side of Jeep), which adds torque on initial acceleration from a stop. I forget how much it adds, but I've driven a 2.0 eTorque and a 2.0 non-eTorque and I could tell a slight difference. The non-eTorque didn't accelerate initially as briskly. But after that initial burst, the power is the same.

Additionally, the eTorque start/stop system is pretty smooth and seamless, due to the Belt Start Generator and 48 volt battery pack. The non-eTorque engines will have the traditional ESS with a small auxiliary battery located under the main battery. As evidenced by numerous threads and posts, this ESS with small auxiliary battery is proving to be troublesome by causing all kinds of issues.....frequent dead batteries, unable to start, etc. To reiterate, the 2.0 eTorque does not have a small auxiliary battery under the main battery.

I never turn the start/stop off on my JLUR's (both with eTorque 2.0T), but I would if I had a non-eTorque engine.
 
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jeme

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eTorque includes a 48 volt battery pack (located under the driver side of Jeep), which adds torque on initial acceleration from a stop. I forget how much it adds, but I've driven a 2.0 eTorque and a 2.0 non-eTorque and I could tell a slight difference. The non-eTorque didn't accelerate initially as briskly. But after that initial burst, the power is the same.

Additionally, the eTorque start/stop system is pretty smooth and seamless, due to the Belt Start Generator and 48 volt battery pack. The non-eTorque engines will have the traditional ESS with a small auxiliary battery located under the main battery. As evidenced by numerous threads and posts, this ESS with small auxiliary battery is proving to be troublesome by causing all kinds of issues.....frequent dead batteries, unable to start, etc. To reiterate, the 2.0 eTorque does not have a small auxiliary battery under the main battery.

I never turn the start/stop off on my JLUR's (both with eTorque 2.0T), but I would if I had a non-eTorque engine.
Thanks so much, I have not had a chance to research that, is it your opinion that the eTorque is a better choice that the plain 2.0T engine? Trying to catch a 2020 but they are getting harder to find in Florida (equipped the way I want). I did find a Rubicon that is interesting, but again that is a bit of overkill for Florida. I appreciate your opinion. Thanks!
 

Dkretden

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You live in Denver, CO.......how can you not justify having a Rubicon?? HAHAHA

There are thousands of miles of mountain trails of varying difficulty just a stones throw away. Those mountains are literally screaming: buy a Rubicon and come on up!!

I can justify having a Rubicon cause I have miles and miles of forest service and BLM land and trails within 1 mile of my house. If I lived in an area with little to no public land and trail system, then it would be hard to justify the added expense of a Rubicon.
LOL. I just moved here 3 months ago.

before that, I lived in Houston. The only open trails nearby were pretty easy — they are called “paved city streets”. Although they could get a little bumpy. So, yah, those bumpy streets REQUIRED a Rubicon. That‘s what I told my wife. She said, “my Mini Cooper has no issues on those bumps.” I said, “ummmmm. You just don’t get it.... the Rubicon looks tough.....”

LOL
 

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Around here (different wold from FL), the Rubicons certainly hold their value better. I really liked the Recon package (I mean, who doesn't want red seat belts and a stitched dash), but the 2.0T has turned me off the few times I've driven one. Nothing major, just has a different feel. I have had a few turbo vehicles, and have a 2021 JLUR turbo diesel on order, but prefer the feel of the 3.6 for the gas engines.

You get a gray dash in the Rubicon with a couple of the colors, or if you order the Saddle Brown interior (I did), but I still think I may swap out for the stitched leather dash from a Sahara in the future. My wife doesn't like the red either, but I do.

The Rubicon is probably overkill for most people, but the look is hard to beat (for me). Though I managed to drag my WK2 Trailhawk over some Utah and Colorado trails that most people wouldn't consider with their Rubicons. Then again, I used to drag my old Omni through some trails most Rubicons would never see. ;-)

None of us know your financial situation, but it sounds like you've researched pricing well enough to know where you stand. If you can afford the Rubicon upcharge and like it, get it! I doubt you'll be disappointed. Maybe you'll even get to engage the lockers to pull some other driver out of the sand! (Happened to me in a FWD KIA SUV on the beach on Ocracoke Island... destroyed the rear end of that poor rental).

Be safe! Have fun! Go topless!
 

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jeme

jeme

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Around here (different wold from FL), the Rubicons certainly hold their value better. I really liked the Recon package (I mean, who doesn't want red seat belts and a stitched dash), but the 2.0T has turned me off the few times I've driven one. Nothing major, just has a different feel. I have had a few turbo vehicles, and have a 2021 JLUR turbo diesel on order, but prefer the feel of the 3.6 for the gas engines.

You get a gray dash in the Rubicon with a couple of the colors, or if you order the Saddle Brown interior (I did), but I still think I may swap out for the stitched leather dash from a Sahara in the future. My wife doesn't like the red either, but I do.

The Rubicon is probably overkill for most people, but the look is hard to beat (for me). Though I managed to drag my WK2 Trailhawk over some Utah and Colorado trails that most people wouldn't consider with their Rubicons. Then again, I used to drag my old Omni through some trails most Rubicons would never see. ;-)

None of us know your financial situation, but it sounds like you've researched pricing well enough to know where you stand. If you can afford the Rubicon upcharge and like it, get it! I doubt you'll be disappointed. Maybe you'll even get to engage the lockers to pull some other driver out of the sand! (Happened to me in a FWD KIA SUV on the beach on Ocracoke Island... destroyed the rear end of that poor rental).

Be safe! Have fun! Go topless!
Good comments thanks so much. Actually going to look at a tan interior rubicon tomorrow. I loved the recon too and was so pissed when the dealer sold it, they were just not interested in anything below 2% under invoice and I know I can do better.
 

Dkretden

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Good comments thanks so much. Actually going to look at a tan interior rubicon tomorrow. I loved the recon too and was so pissed when the dealer sold it, they were just not interested in anything below 2% under invoice and I know I can do better.
I have the tan interior. When I went to the dealer I was POSITIVE that I ONLY wanted black...... until I climbed into the tan interior. I really liked it and I also liked having the grey dash vs. red. Personal choice but I was stunned that I liked the beige. always good to see stuff in person, at least for me.

good luck!
 
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jeme

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I have the tan interior. When I went to the dealer I was POSITIVE that I ONLY wanted black...... until I climbed into the tan interior. I really liked it and I also liked having the grey dash vs. red. Personal choice but I was stunned that I liked the beige. always good to see stuff in person, at least for me.

good luck!
Excellent good to know - I am looking at white too! The only thing this one does not have is the Cold Weather package - I am in Florida, however the wife occasionally like a heated seat. It does have proximity Key and remote start so that is a good thing. I am fixed on black too, perhaps I will change my mind.

It is hard to tell what that color is in the brochure - so glad to hear it is grey.
 

limeade

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Thanks so much, I have not had a chance to research that, is it your opinion that the eTorque is a better choice that the plain 2.0T engine? Trying to catch a 2020 but they are getting harder to find in Florida (equipped the way I want). I did find a Rubicon that is interesting, but again that is a bit of overkill for Florida. I appreciate your opinion. Thanks!
As of now, I like the eTorque better due to the added torque upon initial acceleration, the smooth start/stop, and lack of electrical/battery problems non-eTorque engines are having.

However, the jury is still out for long term reliability and maintenance costs. The eTorque system is covered by the emissions 8yr/80Kmile warranty, so that gives me some peace of mind. But in all honesty, the eTorque components don't look too difficult to replace if out of warranty. The battery pack is about $1,050 right now, then it's a couple of small coolant pumps (which are pretty easily accessed), coolant lines, and reservoirs, associated wiring, etc. The BSG alternator is more expensive than a normal alternator though.

I like to work on my own stuff if I can and I would not hesitate to replace some/most of the eTorque parts if/when needed when it's out of warranty.

So the question you should ask yourself is: Do I deal with the known ESS/electrical problems in a non-eTorque system now in hopes of it being cheaper to maintain (and hopefully FCA finds a fix) in the long run or take an e-Torque system now, which has proven to be reliable in the short term but with unknown long term reliability?
 

Archie PJ

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Turbos make boost whenever there is exhaust flow. I still have no idea what your point is. Initially twin turbos were a solution to low end and high end boost. Now twin scroll types do a decent job of covering both ends. Annnddd, I have no idea why you keep mentioning low RPM. Are you aware that today's truck engines make full torque at 900 RPM? It's not about RPM, it is about exhaust flow. Yes, less at light loads (power), but today's turbos, and the engines they are bolted to, do quite well at lighter loads, thank you. BTW, one can always tell an engine neophyte by the use of rpms. The Rs are already plural ;)
But the etorque turbo doesn't function as a standard turbo does solely off the exhaust..... according to the FCA info
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