Help! Issues after ACT Clutch install.

[autotragic]

Is that the case for the ACT clutch as well? Does the pressure plate self adjust on the stock clutch?. I thought the ACT was more traditional design. Also if the stroke is off to begin with or right on the edge then it may still be out of the operating range. I’m curious about of tolerances from Jeep to Jeep. Maybe those of us that are having issues are on the fringe.

So one of the proposed benefits of the ACT clutch is no changes to the factory hydraulic system.

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And where Centerforce really starts to get interesting
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That converts the Jeeps system to a full hydraulic system instead of the hybrid design it comes with stock. That's definitely the "pinky out" setup for the discerning Wrangler enthusiast.

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[JeepinPete]

The hydraulic throw out bearing is all fine and dandy until it starts to leak. Then you get to drop the transmission to fix the hydraulics rather than the external slave. The style system used on our Jeeps has been used on different vehicles going back nearly 40 years that I know of (late 80's Chevy trucks).

The issue IMO with the Jeep system is the design of the slave cylinder. They design it such that the feed line and bleed port share the same passage. You can see this clearly in this picture:

This makes bleeding far more difficult that it needed to be. Vacuum or pressure bleeding are equally pointless unless you remove the slave cylinder from the bellhousing and elevate the bleed port so the air can escape or jack the back end of the Jeep high enough to accomplish the same thing. The old Chevy slave cylinders had the feed line enter the side and the bleed port directly on top.

I was able to bleed mine by raising the rear end of the truck. I'd press the clutch pedal in my hand and place a board between it and the seat to prop it down. Then climb under and open the bleed port. Close the bleed port, climb back out and remove the prop. The clutch pedal will stay on the floor (over center spring). Pull it up and repeat. FWIW...

Pete

 

[ski-line900]

By the description of the symptoms you are experiencing, it sounds like a hydraulic actuation issue, probably due to air in system or moisture contaminated fluid. In my experience, hydraulic clutches are very difficult and time consuming to bleed.

The factory service manual states "not to bleed system without special proper master cylinder adapter. The wrong adapter can lead to leakage or drawing air back into the system".

Yes, FSM always recommend special expensive factory tools; but maybe in this case this is what you need to do. You could also try a manual bleed by pumping clutch 3 or 4 times, then holding clutch to the floor for 30 seconds; repeat 10 times. This is what I've had to do on my 2000 F350, even after bench bleeding.

Have you checked the line from the brake master cylinder to clutch master? Any cracks, leaks etc... Have you verified (bore scope) the slave cylinder rod is in the proper position, and not leaking inside the bell housing? Is the fluid level remaining at a constant level?

If this were me, at this point I would verify everything is installed properly, perform a fluid (brake) flush, get the factory master cylinder adapter, and rebleed everything per FSM. There are three different FSM procedures for bleeding the clutch, including a special "low pedal" procedure. If I can figure out how to copy the procedure I will post it, haven't been able to figure out how yet (smarter with mechanical stuff than computers). If this doesn't work, at least you know these things are not the issue and you can look at other components.

Best of Luck

Can you share more details of what the procedures are in the FSM? Special tools or procedures?

 

[SadRobot]

Quick update on the Jeep.

- Re-bled system today using a pressure bleeder. This was successful. All the air is out now.
- Pedal was at the floor at first despite no air in the system at all. We think the piston on the slave got stuck back and was not functioning properly
- After about 20 minutes of sitting the pedal came back, functioned normally for the 40 mile drive home and now right back to square one with issues getting into 1st gear
- There is no air in the hydraulics, there are no leaks. Master cylinder, slave cylinder and hydraulic lines are all new.

So looks like this problem is here to stay. I'll keep driving it like this until I can figure what I want to do next. At this point I don't see it returning back to how it was 3 weeks ago before all the trouble started.

 

[ski-line900]

Quick update on the Jeep.

- Re-bled system today using a pressure bleeder. This was successful. All the air is out now.
- Pedal was at the floor at first despite no air in the system at all. We think the piston on the slave got stuck back and was not functioning properly
- After about 20 minutes of sitting the pedal came back, functioned normally for the 40 mile drive home and now right back to square one with issues getting into 1st gear
- There is no air in the hydraulics, there are no leaks. Master cylinder, slave cylinder and hydraulic lines are all new.

So looks like this problem is here to stay. I'll keep driving it like this until I can figure what I want to do next. At this point I don't see it returning back to how it was 3 weeks ago before all the trouble started.

When you pressure bled did you disconnect the slave and tilt the bleed port up? A lot of air gets trapped in the slave if not.

Even after doing the above, I had some more bubbles come out by:

• Mity Vac pulling vacuum on bleeder
• Slave disconnected and aimed uphill
• Depress slave by hand, and with it depressed open bleeder.
• Have someone slowly depress the pedal to the floor. (Make sure you keep the slave depressed, there will be pressure trying to push it out.)
• Close the bleeder.
• Bring pedal back to top.
• Let the slave extend.
• Repeat until no more bubbles.

 

[SadRobot]

When you pressure bled did you disconnect the slave and tilt the bleed port up? A lot of air gets trapped in the slave if not.

Even after doing the above, I had some more bubbles come out by:

• Mity Vac pulling vacuum on bleeder
• Slave disconnected and aimed uphill
• Depress slave by hand, and with it depressed open bleeder.
• Have someone slowly depress the pedal to the floor. (Make sure you keep the slave depressed, there will be pressure trying to push it out.)
• Close the bleeder.
• Bring pedal back to top.
• Let the slave extend.
• Repeat until no more bubbles.

The port was titled up. We put the Jeep at an angle at the end of the driveway and then jacked up the rear pretty high.

 

[fspalt]

@SadRobot did you get reimbursed for the clutch recall? You could take it in and have the recall done if not and go back to stock. At least then you can get back to a functioning Jeep. At that point if hydraulic issues persist have the dealer fix them as they likely have the required bleed tool.

 

[ski-line900]

The port was titled up. We put the Jeep at an angle at the end of the driveway and then jacked up the rear pretty high.

If you're confident you can get the slave back in properly, I would remove cause you can get it near vertical.

There is an inspection cover on the passenger side of the bell housing, that you can snake an inspection camera through to make sure it's in the pocket.

 

[SadRobot]

@SadRobot did you get reimbursed for the clutch recall? You could take it in and have the recall done if not and go back to stock. At least then you can get back to a functioning Jeep. At that point if hydraulic issues persist have the dealer fix them as they likely have the required bleed tool.

I hesitate to do that because of the all of the stories on the Clutch Recall Facebook page. People are having issues with the recall clutch causing transmission overheating problems and Jeep claiming it's user error and refusing to fix or replace with a new clutch.

Besides that it's a 4 month wait right now for the recall. So at the moment not an option.

 

[azwjowner]

I hesitate to do that because of the all of the stories on the Clutch Recall Facebook page. People are having issues with the recall clutch causing transmission overheating problems and Jeep claiming it's user error and refusing to fix or replace with a new clutch.

Besides that it's a 4 month wait right now for the recall. So at the moment not an option.

You and @Actman are quite close to each other, if I understand correctly. Perhaps you could send your Jeep up there and work out an arrangement for a tear down and some educational content posted for the forum on what goes wrong with JL hydraulics/clutch?

 

[SadRobot]

You and @Actman are quite close to each other, if I understand correctly. Perhaps you could send your Jeep up there and work out an arrangement for a tear down and some educational content posted for the forum on what goes wrong with JL hydraulics/clutch?

Hey I'm happy to volunteer my Jeep as tribute. Something is going wrong somewhere I just don't know 100% what.


Edit to add link back to this post. @notthenewguy did take his up to ACT and they checked it all out and issues still persist.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...-after-act-clutch-install.116092/post-2928771

 

[ski-line900]

I've also heard about slight misalignment from the factory between the trans and engine, so the transmission input shaft and therefore the clutch disc isn't perfectly parallel to the flywheel, causing it to slightly drag. I think McLeod designed their disc with some play to try and account for this. Maybe the OEM or South Bend dual disc designs are more accommodating?

 

[SadRobot]

I've also heard about slight misalignment from the factory between the trans and engine, so the transmission input shaft and therefore the clutch disc isn't perfectly parallel to the flywheel, causing it to slightly drag. I think McLeod designed their disc with some play to try and account for this. Maybe the OEM or South Bend dual disc designs are more accommodating?

I would think this issue would appear right away in that case. Like a few hundred miles after install. My issues didn't start till over 10k miles.

 

[ski-line900]

I would think this issue would appear right away in that case. Like a few hundred miles after install. My issues didn't start till over 10k miles.

As a test to see if it's the clutch disc hanging up on the flywheel, push the clutch and give the throttle a little blip, then see if it's easier to go into 1st. I feel like the throttle blip helps to ensure the disc is free of the flywheel.

 

[58Willys]

Quick update on the Jeep.

- Re-bled system today using a pressure bleeder. This was successful. All the air is out now.
- Pedal was at the floor at first despite no air in the system at all. We think the piston on the slave got stuck back and was not functioning properly
- After about 20 minutes of sitting the pedal came back, functioned normally for the 40 mile drive home and now right back to square one with issues getting into 1st gear
- There is no air in the hydraulics, there are no leaks. Master cylinder, slave cylinder and hydraulic lines are all new.

So looks like this problem is here to stay. I'll keep driving it like this until I can figure what I want to do next. At this point I don't see it returning back to how it was 3 weeks ago before all the trouble started.

Well that sucks. Did you change/flush the fluid? Possible it's moisture contaminated and is starting boil. Was it hot out at the end of the 40 mile drive, like 80 deg +? When you're having trouble getting into 1st gear, is that just 1st, or all gears. If just 1st, maybe a syncro issue. If all gears, then probably a clutch issue. No creeping forward in gear, with clutch disengaged?

Let it sit and cool the fluid down and take it for a drive. If it's OK, then probably a contaminated fluid issue. I'm sure you don't want to re-bleed the thing again, but if you re-bleed and it fixes the issue then the issue comes back, later you're probably getting air in somewhere. You may have a bad master or slave cylinder. I know, they're new; but new parts can be bad. If you re-bleed and find air, that's your answer.

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