Heel/Toe Solutions?

LeoTheDragon

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Hi all,

On most cars I've purchased, I have been able to buy a gas pedal that extends a little closer to the brake pedal to facilitate heel/toe shifting. The struggle I'm facing right now is two-fold - I haven't been able to find any sort of pedal that does that for the Jeep and the brake pedal is positioned much higher than the gas pedal. So two questions:

1. Has anyone heard of or found a gas pedal that extends closer to the break pedal? Here is a picture of what I'm taking about. The gas pedal installed is the one I'm using that has a little lip extending toward the brake pedal):
199046d1501310603-how-remove-gas-pedal-nismo-380rs-gas-pedal.jpg


2. Is there a way to either drop the break pedal down a little or raise the gas pedal up a little (with preference to the former option)





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MORTON

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Dang I didn't know people were putting these on the track lol

In all seriousness, unless Jeep has some sort of wacky way of adjusting the brake pedal height, in my experience, typically is as follows:

1. Locate pushrod (Usually to the right of the pedal).
2. Remove lock nut.
3. To lower pedal twist pushrod counter-clockwise.
4. Replace lock nut.
5. For safety do several brake tests in your neighborhood to ensure your brake pedal adjustment is adequate.

Happy drifting LOL
 
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LeoTheDragon

LeoTheDragon

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I guess everyone thinks the only reason someone would want to employ this technique to their daily driving is because race car...

Time to preach:

The number one thing I learned about driving is maintaining control of your vehicle. Yes, I do track days with motorcycles and cars. No, I do not plan on taking the Wrangler to a race track. The purpose for heel/toe shifting is not to drift around a corner on the streets or to show off dem mad skillz yo, but to 1. maintain as much control as I have over my vehicle and 2. reduce wear on the clutch and transmission.

I will never coast down the street in neutral. When I'm on my motorcycle, this is especially true. To ME, it's unsafe and you no longer have the ability to accelerate when you need do without performing several steps - clutch in, shift, clutch out, gas. Coasting in neutral for any amount of time regardless of how fast you're going is unsafe. In pilot training, they emphasize workload management. Anything and everything you can do to reduce your workload so you can focus on the situation at hand is key to getting out of emergencies. Everything is a checklist to prepare the plane for whatever it is you need to do. You configure your plane for take-off and landing so you don't have to think about steps 1 & 2 when you're on steps 5 & 6.

This is no different when operating any sort of vehicle. Motorcyclists run a higher risk of being hit because people just don't see them. I've almost been rear ended before and was able to throttle out of the way because I was in gear. Had I been coasting to a stop i neutral, I would have had to clutch in, shift, clutch out and gas. Those are steps you don't have time to do in emergency situations. Now, every time I come to a stoplight, I check my mirrors to make sure the guy behind me is slowing down and I KNOW I'm in a position to GTFO if I need to, and don't need to worry about the steps to get into gear.

I'm also simply used to doing it so there's that. It actually feels strange not to since it's become such a habit. I just like to be consistent, nothing wrong with that. So, no, I don't plan on heel/toe shifting so I can drop it from 4th into 2nd and burn rubber taking a corner. I like being in control of my vehicle and being in gear ANYTIME it's in motion is part of that.

Sorry that was long.
 

nerubi

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I guess everyone thinks the only reason someone would want to employ this technique to their daily driving is because race car...

Time to preach:

The number one thing I learned about driving is maintaining control of your vehicle. Yes, I do track days with motorcycles and cars. No, I do not plan on taking the Wrangler to a race track. The purpose for heel/toe shifting is not to drift around a corner on the streets or to show off dem mad skillz yo, but to 1. maintain as much control as I have over my vehicle and 2. reduce wear on the clutch and transmission.

I will never coast down the street in neutral. When I'm on my motorcycle, this is especially true. To ME, it's unsafe and you no longer have the ability to accelerate when you need do without performing several steps - clutch in, shift, clutch out, gas. Coasting in neutral for any amount of time regardless of how fast you're going is unsafe. In pilot training, they emphasize workload management. Anything and everything you can do to reduce your workload so you can focus on the situation at hand is key to getting out of emergencies. Everything is a checklist to prepare the plane for whatever it is you need to do. You configure your plane for take-off and landing so you don't have to think about steps 1 & 2 when you're on steps 5 & 6.

This is no different when operating any sort of vehicle. Motorcyclists run a higher risk of being hit because people just don't see them. I've almost been rear ended before and was able to throttle out of the way because I was in gear. Had I been coasting to a stop i neutral, I would have had to clutch in, shift, clutch out and gas. Those are steps you don't have time to do in emergency situations. Now, every time I come to a stoplight, I check my mirrors to make sure the guy behind me is slowing down and I KNOW I'm in a position to GTFO if I need to, and don't need to worry about the steps to get into gear.

I'm also simply used to doing it so there's that. It actually feels strange not to since it's become such a habit. I just like to be consistent, nothing wrong with that. So, no, I don't plan on heel/toe shifting so I can drop it from 4th into 2nd and burn rubber taking a corner. I like being in control of my vehicle and being in gear ANYTIME it's in motion is part of that.

Sorry that was long.
Full foot on pedal is the best way to be in control. Learned that in pursuit driving class. And metal pedals cause loss of control with the least little bit of moisture, mud, other junk that Jeep drivers often have on their shoes. Just my experiences opinion. My other opinion based on seeing many broken bodies is never drive a motorcycle. Very dangerous with no valuable reward. No protection, can't see them, too many drivers texting instead of driving. I learned that at an accident on a hot July afternoon with two victims lying on hot asphalt after being hit at 50 mph when they did a U-turn on a highway and were t-boned. Neither one were able to walk again without crutches.
 

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Honestly, I've owned 5 manual transmission vehicles, and never have I felt the need to do any heel toe downshifting as I came to a stop. Yes I would downshift and no I wouldn't coast in neutral.

Feel free to do that if you want but its really unnecessary for the situation you're describing.
 

DanB

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I heel and toe in my Subaru out of habit. My JLU is an auto, it is primarily my daughters vehicle so not my choice, and I miss having a stick when I drive it.

I am sure someone makes a gas pedal you can retrofit but keep in mind if you are ever in an accident and you have "adjusted" your pedals in any way you are opening yourself up to problems.
 

He_Hate_Me_JL

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I guess everyone thinks the only reason someone would want to employ this technique to their daily driving is because race car...

Time to preach:

The number one thing I learned about driving is maintaining control of your vehicle. Yes, I do track days with motorcycles and cars. No, I do not plan on taking the Wrangler to a race track. The purpose for heel/toe shifting is not to drift around a corner on the streets or to show off dem mad skillz yo, but to 1. maintain as much control as I have over my vehicle and 2. reduce wear on the clutch and transmission.

I will never coast down the street in neutral. When I'm on my motorcycle, this is especially true. To ME, it's unsafe and you no longer have the ability to accelerate when you need do without performing several steps - clutch in, shift, clutch out, gas. Coasting in neutral for any amount of time regardless of how fast you're going is unsafe. In pilot training, they emphasize workload management. Anything and everything you can do to reduce your workload so you can focus on the situation at hand is key to getting out of emergencies. Everything is a checklist to prepare the plane for whatever it is you need to do. You configure your plane for take-off and landing so you don't have to think about steps 1 & 2 when you're on steps 5 & 6.

This is no different when operating any sort of vehicle. Motorcyclists run a higher risk of being hit because people just don't see them. I've almost been rear ended before and was able to throttle out of the way because I was in gear. Had I been coasting to a stop i neutral, I would have had to clutch in, shift, clutch out and gas. Those are steps you don't have time to do in emergency situations. Now, every time I come to a stoplight, I check my mirrors to make sure the guy behind me is slowing down and I KNOW I'm in a position to GTFO if I need to, and don't need to worry about the steps to get into gear.

I'm also simply used to doing it so there's that. It actually feels strange not to since it's become such a habit. I just like to be consistent, nothing wrong with that. So, no, I don't plan on heel/toe shifting so I can drop it from 4th into 2nd and burn rubber taking a corner. I like being in control of my vehicle and being in gear ANYTIME it's in motion is part of that.

Sorry that was long.
Great answer :clap:, feel blessed you have the ability to execute precise heel toe/down shifts!!! I have always lacked the coordination to pull it off correctly. I'm glad you took the time to explain why! Like many others my first thought was WTF:whatsgoingon: In a Jeep:whatsgoingon:
Post of the day :clap: :flag:
 

He_Hate_Me_JL

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PM sent where you should be able to find your pedal. I don't think links to other websites can be post here. Good luck!
 

cwadle

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For my own ease of driving, I drive the same way. Its just so easy to shift left to right, but in the wrangler its almost as if Im going to miss the brake petal. Kinda scary.
 

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Dang I didn't know people were putting these on the track lol

In all seriousness, unless Jeep has some sort of wacky way of adjusting the brake pedal height, in my experience, typically is as follows:

1. Locate pushrod (Usually to the right of the pedal).
2. Remove lock nut.
3. To lower pedal twist pushrod counter-clockwise.
4. Replace lock nut.
5. For safety do several brake tests in your neighborhood to ensure your brake pedal adjustment is adequate.

Happy drifting LOL
Serious question... But when you start adjusting pedals and height and such are you voiding any warranty? My first thought is it must be some sort of safety measure to keep you from accidentally accelerating versus braking.
 

CriticalMass

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I guess everyone thinks the only reason someone would want to employ this technique to their daily driving is because race car...

Time to preach:

The number one thing I learned about driving is maintaining control of your vehicle. Yes, I do track days with motorcycles and cars. No, I do not plan on taking the Wrangler to a race track. The purpose for heel/toe shifting is not to drift around a corner on the streets or to show off dem mad skillz yo, but to 1. maintain as much control as I have over my vehicle and 2. reduce wear on the clutch and transmission.

I will never coast down the street in neutral. When I'm on my motorcycle, this is especially true. To ME, it's unsafe and you no longer have the ability to accelerate when you need do without performing several steps - clutch in, shift, clutch out, gas. Coasting in neutral for any amount of time regardless of how fast you're going is unsafe. In pilot training, they emphasize workload management. Anything and everything you can do to reduce your workload so you can focus on the situation at hand is key to getting out of emergencies. Everything is a checklist to prepare the plane for whatever it is you need to do. You configure your plane for take-off and landing so you don't have to think about steps 1 & 2 when you're on steps 5 & 6.

This is no different when operating any sort of vehicle. Motorcyclists run a higher risk of being hit because people just don't see them. I've almost been rear ended before and was able to throttle out of the way because I was in gear. Had I been coasting to a stop i neutral, I would have had to clutch in, shift, clutch out and gas. Those are steps you don't have time to do in emergency situations. Now, every time I come to a stoplight, I check my mirrors to make sure the guy behind me is slowing down and I KNOW I'm in a position to GTFO if I need to, and don't need to worry about the steps to get into gear.

I'm also simply used to doing it so there's that. It actually feels strange not to since it's become such a habit. I just like to be consistent, nothing wrong with that. So, no, I don't plan on heel/toe shifting so I can drop it from 4th into 2nd and burn rubber taking a corner. I like being in control of my vehicle and being in gear ANYTIME it's in motion is part of that.

Sorry that was long.
The only purpose of a heel/toe shift would be to quickly decelerate into a corner while maintaining power without destabilizing the rear end. It is performance driving and really has no benefit or need in a Jeep. Sure, I *guess* you can justify it by saying you want to maintain as much control over the vehicle as you can; but by definition if you *need* to heel/toe to maintain control in a Jeep you will already be upside down because a Jeep cannot corner like a sports car. So you aren't going to do it into a corner.

I think your next justification was "getting out of emergencies". Which again, ain't gonna happen in a Jeep. I'm assuming you are talking about downshifting and engine braking into a stale red stoplight and wanting to maintain the power band so you can make a lightning quick acceleration emergency move to get yourself out of trouble. (Wow, that was almost painful to write). Putting aside the dbag poser move of multiple rev matched downshifts leading into a red light, you ain't gonna blast accelerate out of a sticky situation in a Jeep. Nope. Not gonna happen. And if you try you had better take your hands off the wheel because any type of wheel correction while you are pretending to be Ken Block is going to put you upside down again. If you are looking in your rear view while coming to a stop at a traffic light trying to gauge the probability of the guy behind you smashing into your rear end, you may be looking in the wrong direction while driving. Try looking in front of you. What exactly are you going to do, again? So you are going to accelerate hard to avoid the rear end wreck and rely on the legendary braking capability of the Jeep to stop you before you rear end the person in front of you or blast through the intersection and T-bone the family of 5 heading to Chick-Fil-A on a Sunday and mercifully wiping them out before the crushing realization of not being able to buy a delicious chicken sandwich on a church day?

Heel/toe actually increases the wear on the clutch, transmission and engine because you are using thousands and thousands of dollars of equipment to slow the vehicle instead of some $75 brake pads. Also, double clutching would be a better idea when coming to a stop if you are still wanting to be that guy.

If you want to heel/toe in a Jeep because you think it is fun, knock yourself out. You don't need anyone's permission; but you will look sort of silly doing it. And from the sound of it, impressing people with your mad shifting skills is your primary goal so it might not be the best idea for that reason alone.
 

bumpit

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You right about the control with being in gear there is no denying it. I go into nuetral when braking and sometimes when im coasting into a stop and not looking to accelerate. If something is going to catch me that off guard its likely I never would have seen it coming in the first place. Situational awareness is king most of the time.
I've got several certifications for driving from my previous job and 15 years driving a manual (4 jeeps 1 muscle car). You learn techniques to limit your exposure to certain situations when your driving a large vehicle that can't stop or maneuver out of the way fast enough by just being able to avoid those situations.

I can't believe I've been doing it wrong all these years lmao. Hey its your jeep tho and if your convinced being able to heal toe at all times is saving your life then heal toe away!
 
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LeoTheDragon

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The only purpose of a heel/toe shift would be to quickly decelerate into a corner while maintaining power without destabilizing the rear end. It is performance driving and really has no benefit or need in a Jeep. Sure, I *guess* you can justify it by saying you want to maintain as much control over the vehicle as you can; but by definition if you *need* to heel/toe to maintain control in a Jeep you will already be upside down because a Jeep cannot corner like a sports car. So you aren't going to do it into a corner.

I think your next justification was "getting out of emergencies". Which again, ain't gonna happen in a Jeep. I'm assuming you are talking about downshifting and engine braking into a stale red stoplight and wanting to maintain the power band so you can make a lightning quick acceleration emergency move to get yourself out of trouble. (Wow, that was almost painful to write). Putting aside the dbag poser move of multiple rev matched downshifts leading into a red light, you ain't gonna blast accelerate out of a sticky situation in a Jeep. Nope. Not gonna happen. And if you try you had better take your hands off the wheel because any type of wheel correction while you are pretending to be Ken Block is going to put you upside down again. If you are looking in your rear view while coming to a stop at a traffic light trying to gauge the probability of the guy behind you smashing into your rear end, you may be looking in the wrong direction while driving. Try looking in front of you. What exactly are you going to do, again? So you are going to accelerate hard to avoid the rear end wreck and rely on the legendary braking capability of the Jeep to stop you before you rear end the person in front of you or blast through the intersection and T-bone the family of 5 heading to Chick-Fil-A on a Sunday and mercifully wiping them out before the crushing realization of not being able to buy a delicious chicken sandwich on a church day?

Heel/toe actually increases the wear on the clutch, transmission and engine because you are using thousands and thousands of dollars of equipment to slow the vehicle instead of some $75 brake pads. Also, double clutching would be a better idea when coming to a stop if you are still wanting to be that guy.

If you want to heel/toe in a Jeep because you think it is fun, knock yourself out. You don't need anyone's permission; but you will look sort of silly doing it. And from the sound of it, impressing people with your mad shifting skills is your primary goal so it might not be the best idea for that reason alone.
We can have a discussion ALL day about *want* and *need*.

Nowhere in my explanation did I ever say I *NEED* to heel/toe. The whole thing was to justify why I do it and why I think it's a good idea. I WANT to have control of my vehicle. I WANT to be consistent in my shifting techniques. I WANT to continue practicing my skillz. I've developed muscle memory on the road so I can be better on the track, and on the track so I can be better on the road. So I WANT to modify my controls to facilitate all these things. I have a clutch pedal and a shift knob. It *may* be less advantageous to do this in a Jeep, but why should I stop doing it just because it's not necessary? Like I said, it's become a habit, I'm attuned to it, I'm more comfortable doing it than not, etc.

I understand how you may think that heel/toe causes more wear on the clutch/tranny. This argument goes both ways because if not done correctly, yes, more damage and more wear. But if it is done correctly then there's no real issue. I'm good enough at this where I believe it will cause less wear when I rev-match downshift as opposed to shifting and feathering the clutch out to get into gear.

And you don't get to tell anyone what kind of emergencies can and can't happen, because you don't know that, I don't know that, the next guy doesn't know that. Again, the point is to be in a position so that YOU ARE PREPARED for whatever the hell might happen. You may not have control over what external factors happen to you, but you have every bit of control over how prepared you are and how you can respond to it.

And to your other jibber jabber, didn't bother reading it all through because now you're just being an asshole.

My question to you is, who pissed in your cheerios this morning?
 

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