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Heart Says Nitto Trail Grapplers s But Brain Says Toyo A/TIIIs

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Jeep Wrangler JL Heart Says Nitto Trail Grapplers s But Brain Says Toyo A/TIIIs 1627279036846
Dat breakover angle. And the tires still looked tucked which is what I was hoping for.

What a hilarious way to start Monday. Thanks omnitonic!
 

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Dat breakover angle. And the tires still looked tucked which is what I was hoping for.
My serious brain kicked in when I saw the picture again, and I got to thinking. Those would be about 22" wheels with about 46" tires. You'd want to upgrade to Dana 80s for sure, and you'd probably have to carry the spare on the roof. Goals! :CWL:
 

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Have owned my 2door Rubicon for 2 months now and, like many Jeep owners, the bigger-tire-bug has started to bite. Am a big fan of the OEM Rubicon wheels and the tucked look that they offer and so want to keep the OEM rims.

As the headline says, the two tires I have whittled my preferences down to are Toyo Open County A/T IIIs and Nitto Trail Grapplers, both offered in 35x11.5r17. Here is what I see as the pros and cons of these two options.

Nitto Trail Grapplers
Pros
*Look awesome
*Mud Terrain "better" for muddy trails in my area
*Look Awesome
*Always wanted mud terrains for some reason
Cons
*Not snow rated and supposedly poorer on wet roads (roads in my area are perpetually wet)
*Heavy AF
*Nitto's premium price
*Louder (not important to me but a con nonetheless)

Toyo Open Country A/T IIIs
Pros
*Lighter for 35s
*Snow rated and supposedly performs well on wet roads
*Cheaper
*Longer tread life (I am told, feel free to tell me otherwise)
*Quieter (again, not important to me)

Cons
*Poorer mud performance (trails in my area are muddier)
*Look good, not great

If anyone has experience with these tires or, even better, can tell my why I should pick one over the other, I would love to hear what you think. What would you recommend and why?

Also, I plan to add a lift to my JL but not in the near future.
I had trail grapplers on my JKUR. Good overall, but loud and wet grip wasn’t great. No experiencew Toyos but went w 315 70 Falken AT3W For my JLUR Very quiet, good grip in wet and snow. Taking it off-road soon so can’t comment on that yet
 
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Jeep Wrangler JL Heart Says Nitto Trail Grapplers s But Brain Says Toyo A/TIIIs 1627279036846
I keep looking at this pic. I am not going to say I don't kind of like it...
 

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I keep looking at this pic. I am not going to say I don't kind of like it...
Yeah. Me too. What would it actually take, anyway?

I've got your tires right here: 46X19.50R20 Mickey Thompson Baja Pro XS

They make 8-lug wheels that will fit these. Now you need Dana 80s. You want low gears for these bad boys. Looks like 6.17 is the lowest you can go.

If you have the 6MT you'll be running 62 mph at 2000 RPM in 6th, or 92 mph at 3000. This is actually way more reasonable than I expected.

With your Rubi transfer case, you will be crawling along at 0.81 mph, or 71 fpm, with a crawl ratio approaching 127.

It's hard to figure if a 6" lift would be enough, but it might be.

You could actually build this, Tim! Just think of the breakover angle!

Jeep Wrangler JL Heart Says Nitto Trail Grapplers s But Brain Says Toyo A/TIIIs 1627359780312
 

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Just ask @cosine he knows!
Yeah. Me too. What would it actually take, anyway?

I've got your tires right here: 46X19.50R20 Mickey Thompson Baja Pro XS

They make 8-lug wheels that will fit these. Now you need Dana 80s. You want low gears for these bad boys. Looks like 6.17 is the lowest you can go.

If you have the 6MT you'll be running 62 mph at 2000 RPM in 6th, or 92 mph at 3000. This is actually way more reasonable than I expected.

With your Rubi transfer case, you will be crawling along at 0.81 mph, or 71 fpm, with a crawl ratio approaching 127.

It's hard to figure if a 6" lift would be enough, but it might be.

You could actually build this, Tim! Just think of the breakover angle!

Jeep Wrangler JL Heart Says Nitto Trail Grapplers s But Brain Says Toyo A/TIIIs 1627359780312
A sawzall and fender delete can work wonders :)
 

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I was going to say something funny, but then I found the formula for calculating this.

Jeep Wrangler JL Heart Says Nitto Trail Grapplers s But Brain Says Toyo A/TIIIs 1627367105421


The sad truth is I got lost in the weeds for two hours trying to actually figure this out. I am really stupid at math sometimes. I still have no idea, but I do know that it's not going to be calculated accurately by this moron sitting behind this keyboard. Sigh. :headbang:
 

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I was going to say something funny, but then I found the formula for calculating this.

Jeep Wrangler JL Heart Says Nitto Trail Grapplers s But Brain Says Toyo A/TIIIs 1627367105421


The sad truth is I got lost in the weeds for two hours trying to actually figure this out. I am really stupid at math sometimes. I still have no idea, but I do know that it's not going to be calculated accurately by this moron sitting behind this keyboard. Sigh. :headbang:
Upon further reflection, I realize the appropriate response is to make fun of Tim for being a wuss, shame him into a ridiculous purchase, laugh at him when he realizes Dana 80s only come in rear axle versions, and then ask him for measurements after his build is complete. Then I can go back, edit my earlier post, and look like a SUPER GENIUS FTW!
 

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Breakover... let's see, working off of @AnnDee4444 's graph here. 2-door, 6" of lift, with (46-33)/2 call it extra 6 inches there. 12" of total "lift" OMG THAT IS OFF THE CHART!!

Screen Shot 2021-07-26 at 10.10.22 PM.png
Didn't think anyone would ever have that problem... Updated the table to show a ridiculous 52.8° of breakover angle. That sounds so absurd that I'm not even sure if it's calculating correctly.

Jeep Wrangler JL Heart Says Nitto Trail Grapplers s But Brain Says Toyo A/TIIIs Breakover Angle vs. Rubicon Lift




At a certain point the steering angle will make the breakover angle approach infinity. You will need to run zero scrub-radius wheels for maximum tire size. Also the tires could potentially make contact with each other during suspension droop if you were to decide to try to go off of any jumps...

Jeep Wrangler JL Heart Says Nitto Trail Grapplers s But Brain Says Toyo A/TIIIs 5-1
 
 



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