Have your local dealers tapped out?

TopsOff

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The KBB is 17500 for my car. I’ll swing by carmax but I’m guessing they will be several k under that which negates the amazing Criswell price.
Years ago KBB valued in favor of the consumer - but the dealers all used Galves and auction/wholesale data which made KBB basically a fairy tale. You'd walk in and tell them about your KBB quote and they'd laugh.

Now I've noticed KBB learned they can make more money getting into bed with the dealers - and now they have this wonderful thing called KBB Instant Cash Offer. Every dealer I went to around here used KBB ICO like gospel - because nowadays KBB valuation is in the dealers favor, not the consumer.

One thing to know is that the KBB ICO differs from the generic KBB online calculation in that condition defaults to FAIR. So a car you KBB value online outside ICO - you'll probably objectively look at your car and estimate condition at GOOD or higher. All KBB ICO calculations I just encountered lined up with FAIR - which meant i had cosmetic and mechanical issues that needed fixing.

I traded in a 2016 Z51 Corvette with 14,000 miles and 7/32 tread all around. True enthusiast vehicle - not even close to FAIR. Didn't matter - the ICO was the ICO. It wasn't until I found a more motivated dealer to offer over ICO and was then able to leverage that up with another dealer that I got better offers. Traded it for $42,500 and KBB ICO was $40,800. Generic KBB based on my assessment of condition was $44K-$45K. The car is listed right now at Jeep dealer for $49.9K. All part of the game, I get it.

Private sale? Sure....then I have to cough up $2700 in sales tax. That means I'd need to sell the car private party and deal with FB marketplace, Craigs, tire-kickers galore, dreamers, and Corvette enthusiasts tasting the calipers to check flavor.....etc. (I was a camaro guy and the enthusiast community was friendly, as this one seems to be. I deleted my bookmark to the Vette forum about a month into it. What a snooty crowd - and I'm sure theres Vette folks here, I'm sorry, but it's true. You can't ask a question about an issue with a Vette online without several know it alls telling you that God himself built that car and you are imagining things)

The dealer that offered me FWP minus 3% actually described it as Cost minus Holdback. If it rolls off the truck and you take it - they keep that 3% holdback intended to cover their costs of keeping the vehicle, marketing, etc.

There's no reason in the world someone ordering a Jeep right now should pay anything over FWP minus 3%.





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agarber5687

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What a snooty crowd - and I'm sure theres Vette folks here, I'm sorry, but it's true. You can't ask a question about an issue with a Vette online without several know it alls telling you that God himself built that car and you are imagining things).
:D Meanwhile -Jeep People “Oh yea, I’ve had that issue for years, and just wait until you have this issue! But I love my Jeep even more for it!”

Great info on the KBB values and history. Thanks!
 

Kyanche

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I sold a car to CarMax before and it was pretty fair. Similar situation where I needed to buy elsewhere without a trade. Obviously selling private is best bet by a decent margin, but for ease carmax may make sense. Definitely worth getting a quote from them at worst. If I remember they honor for 5 days so you can shop around, but this was probably 4-5 years ago.
I'm going to chime in to recommend Vroom and Carvana for selling as well. They offered me more than the other methods, although it definitely takes a bit more time than just going to Carmax and walking out with a check.

The part that kills me is that they paid me more than anyone else offered, put new tires on it, polished it up, and listed it for $5k more than they paid me. Holy crap! I've seen similar jeeps listed online for about $3k less than what they're asking.. by dealers in LA, so I'm curious if they'll actually sell it for that much.
 

RubiSc0tt

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This is close to my preferred method. I have done it once to buy a Pacifica minivan last year and plan to always use the same method in the future.

I build out exactly what I am looking for, then send identical e-mails to all dealers in the area asking for their "out the door price" for that exact match (or with option/color/trim, etc. wiggle room if I have it).

I tell them in the e-mail that I will follow-up with the best offers I receive and look to purchase in the next XX days.

I don't care what percentage you call it, MSRP or invoice, dealer fees, whatever. I just want to know my final and true cost and I want to compare apples to apples.

I then bring up any trade-in after the "out the door price" is determined and keep the trade optional as I may just keep or sell private party unless they can make me a good offer.

Honestly about half of the dealers I reached out to did not play ball but a good handful did and I felt good that my final price we paid was fair.
This is pretty much the same exact method I used. I made sure everything was on paper and accounted for, including trade value. The only thing I did differently was I talked directly to a guy my brother leased a Cherokee from a few months earlier. He was one of the younger guys there, wise to the use of the internet when it comes to buying/ selling cars and was helpful/ respectful of my time and needs as I was up front with him about everything. I gave him my number, told him the quotes I got from a few of the large national dealers, and we went from there. Ordered in Sept, picked it up in November. It was one of the first Punk'n JLUR's in my area and possible the only manual trans.

Same. I got local dealer to 4% under invoice on one of their in-stock jeeps but then they wanted $1200 for their dealer fee, which pushed them back to about 2% under in comparison. I offered them $1000 more (since the flight, pickup, drive IS a hassle) than what the big volume dealers in MD/VA wanted and they said no way.

I ordered from Koons. I bought my Ram from them a year ago and even if you add up the time I spent in the airport, flying, uber, and at the dealership picking up the truck - was still HOURS less than I spent at a local dealer when I bought my previous Ram.

I am happy to do my part to speed up the demise of the "old" business model of screwing the customer.
Exactly. I did pretty much the same thing. I was planning on driving my old TJ/ flying to get my new JLUR. As mentioned above, I had everything factored in (my time, cost of flight/ drive, etc). When I gave my local guy the number, he was close enough on the price of the Jeep and on my trade that it made the cost/ time of traveling negligible, so I bought local. if he gave me the hard line "MSRP or GTFO", I would have flown, based on cost savings and principle. Sorry, but if you're not going to respect my time and needs, I'm not buying anything from you and when you get run out of the industry/ your dealer goes under, I won't feel bad at all. Let the old business model die. I want to say when all was said and done, I was at 4% below MSRP with trade, and I didn't have to fly/drive 6+ hours one way to pick up my new Jeep. I was happy with it overall, and if/when I buy another enthusiast vehicle- I'm heavily considering ordering again based on my experience. I love the fact that I picked it up with 19 miles on the odometer.

I tried to sell my TJ Rubi. I had it on CL, FB marketplace, everything. Built w/ 33's and armor and a winch and 2 tops/ sets of doors- everything out the door. No bites. Not even an email in the 3+ months I had it up there. I ended up stripping everything I could and trading it in, and selling the rest on CL. Ironically enough, most of the people I sold to had Older TJ's in worse condition and not as well equipped or built, You'd think they would just rather buy a turn key rig ready to go, but i guess not. Don't get me wrong, I'm an off road/ Jeep guy through and through, but it continues to amaze me how much coin people with throw at something that is rapidly aging and rusting out, multiple issues (that they don't even repair themselves- most of them were "taking it to their mechanic") vs. buying another vehicle.

I've posted my car/ Jeep buying rant elsewhere multiple times, but if anyone wants to hear my advice on this process, I can link to another thread. I hate to seem like i'm shamelessly self promoting but some of the people whose thread I posted in felt it was useful, and for me- hearing things from other well informed Jeep people gives me a reality check to help me feel like I'm not crazy
 
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trouphaz

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Common car dealers vs nice car dealers, I think. A couple of years ago I pondered buying a Porsche Cayman and the dealer I contacted was super nice and really wanted me to come by and try a car out, no strings attached. From what I've heard most luxury car dealers (but not all) are super nice and will let you test drive whatever.

On the other hand, Chevy dealers are incredibly stingy about test drives, and Subaru dealers are incredibly stingy about WRX STI test drives. I wonder how hard it is to test drive a hellcat, lol.

Ultimately, ordering is best, but yeah.

The dealer I bought my JK from sold it to me at invoice/FWP and was willing to do 1% under if I had tread lightly (which I didn't lol). This time around they were baaaaarely willing to do that with the JL, so I shopped around until someone on here suggested a dealer that does 5% and is only a couple hours away. Hehe. Unfortunately, it's pretty common.
i'm betting it is simply that the volume of people in a chevy dealership vs those in a luxury dealership are night and day. and luxury dealerships focus on the whole experience where your basic car dealerships are there to just sell cars. that's also why you pay a lot more for a luxury car than a basic car from a regular dealership.

for me, I went to Crisswell for my car. they gave me a good price at the time. i was offered 6% under invoice, but after they screwed up they knocked another 1.5% off... though, that was because i took a train to pick up a car and they couldn't sell it and i had to take a train back home.
 

#1 for me

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Car selling has become very regional by me. Most dealers in NJ wouldn’t entertain and real discount on a outright purchase. Lease/finance would be another story. With the 20’s finally hit the lots,and predictions of a harsh winter most dealers are going to be real hard asses.
If they don't sell they don't eat and their family will suffer at Christmas time !
 

thiskneeguy

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the invoice price what the dealer actually paid the manufacturer for the car? I don't understand how anyone would expect a dealer to accept losing 8% of their investment into a vehicle. If you can get a car at or slightly above invoice, aren't you already getting a terrific deal?
 

Kyanche

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the invoice price what the dealer actually paid the manufacturer for the car? I don't understand how anyone would expect a dealer to accept losing 8% of their investment into a vehicle. If you can get a car at or slightly above invoice, aren't you already getting a terrific deal?
no, as far as I know, dealer holdback (the HB number on the invoice sheet) is what they get when you pay FWP. Plus if you have a supplier discount or affiliate rewards membership (like tread lightly) then you will get 1% under invoice price and the dealer gets a 2% credit. Plus they get paid fees for stuff like PDI. If you finance with them they also get some profit off that, and if you trade your car in they get profit from that, and if you buy an extended warranty they can get profit there too.

don’t get me wrong, I’m fine and happy if they make some money on the deal.
 

cosmokenney

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So I touched base with every local dealer regarding going under invoice and they all tapped out. Wondering if anyone else has gone though so many?

Everyone started with yeah we can work with you but when I said okay let’s go and here’s what I want for this amount (8%) the answer was always we might be able to do close to invoice for 2019 but not on orders or 2020. Those will be closer to MSRP.

What more shocking is they are moving units so people here are paying it.
Strange, I had to drive a little but found one (March of 2019) that was well below what other dealers were asking.

Most of the other dealers were trying to sell me 4 cyl for a "deep discount" (I think hoping I wouldn't notice), but wouldn't offer the same on one of their 6 cyl.

I didn't even haggle with my dealer. I did my credit app on their website. He called and said it was ready. I drove down with my trade, and an hour later was driving home with the new Jeep. Though I did have to get stern with the finance guy when he started trying to sell me warranties and paint protection and custom anti-theft and a bunch of other crap. But that was just a "no", "no", "no", "i just wan't whats on the sticker... thanks."

A good chunk of the time spent there, btw, was having three people count the rather large cash down payment.
 

marjamr

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I would never ask a sales guy to go under invoice unless its one of the ones on here that regularly does so. My reasoning is that, in my experience, most sales guys don't know what invoice is and as soon as they hear that they are going to freak and think you're asking them to take a loss, and they don't want to take that to their manager. Basically, I think asking for a percent under invoice is not going to get you the reaction you think at most dealers.

Instead, what I always do, is figure out what I want to pay. For my JLUR, I used percentage under invoice, then trade, taxes, and dealer fee. Then I asked my sales guy what the out the door price was, and he was able to be very close, so I order from him. I also contacted 2 other dealers, 1 across the sate that was much lower in the price, but had a higher dealer fee so the OTD wasn't much different, and another one out of state that did a bit better but it wasn't worth driving up for plus losing the lemon law coverage.

The bottom line is, if you want to get the best deal, figure out what YOU want and then know what YOU are willing to pay. The conversation should go like this: Hi, I see you have a JLUR on the lot that I'd like, I have a 2011 SS camaro with 70K miles, a 5K payoff, and if you can get me out the door for $40K, I'll buy it right now". Or, if ordering, give them the options you want, and if they can meet your price you'll order right now.
This is pretty close to the way I do it too. Been working pretty well for the last few cars I’ve bought. I don’t do the arguing anymore. I know what my trade-in is worth and the difference I’m willing to pay and that’s it.
 

Moride

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I must be missing something but do not understand why so many pricing posts reference discount off invoice? It seems like an extra step to figure invoice when MSRP is what everyone can plainly find without any research?

So why is discount given off invoice price?
 

crazychile

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I must be missing something but do not understand why so many pricing posts reference discount off invoice? It seems like an extra step to figure invoice when MSRP is what everyone can plainly find without any research?

So why is discount given off invoice price?
Invoice is a more tangible baseline. MSRP on a more "loaded" vehicle will contain options of varying profit margins. You could do it either way, but doing the research on the option margins from MSRP is going to be more work than just going from invoice.
 

BigGreen

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The invoice that has insanely overpriced items like $1500 tint? Seems like a good way to make the deal seem better than it is, especially with some dealers.
 

cbrenthus

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I must be missing something but do not understand why so many pricing posts reference discount off invoice? It seems like an extra step to figure invoice when MSRP is what everyone can plainly find without any research?

So why is discount given off invoice price?
The other thing that is going on is that many on here read other's posts about x amount off invoice and they think they need that to be satisfied. Remember that 1% of 50K is $500, so going from 4%-6% is only $1000, and that can be made back up in dealer fees very easily. ;)
 

ButWhatDoIKnow

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Also remember that the sales manager and salesman get paid commission monthly in most dealerships. Therefore, you can get a better deal in the last week of the month.
 

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