AmarilloJLU

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I don't understand why they were allowed to drive the Magneto and the 392, but not the 4xe...
I would imagine it was to preserve the charge on the battery for their own demonstration stuff. it would be another 2 hours of waiting between each full drain and full charge to show off the electric only feature that everyone wants to see. My guess, who knows.





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bkinnj

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I don't understand why they were allowed to drive the Magneto and the 392, but not the 4xe...
Exactly! Hopefully some of you get your 4xe's very soon and will flood the forum with reports.
 

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The Magneto concept brings up a disadvantage point on an all-electric off-roading vehicle. What happens when you deplete the 12v battery while doing a winch recovery? There is no alternator that will recharge anything.
True, there would be no way to add additional energy to the system but it would be very easy to have the battery pack for the drivetrain charge the 12v system at a rate most alternators would have a hard time keeping up with. It'd reduce your range but limited 12v power would not be an issue, I'm sure they thought of that
 

JackA

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Most EVs have a DC system voltage to 12 VDC converter that runs the onboard electronics. Even my 2014 Polaris Ranger EV has this method to keep the winch battery charged.
 

blueweb

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True, there would be no way to add additional energy to the system but it would be very easy to have the battery pack for the drivetrain charge the 12v system at a rate most alternators would have a hard time keeping up with. It'd reduce your range but limited 12v power would not be an issue, I'm sure they thought of that
That is what I figured would happen. In BEVs the 12v battery is just charged off the main pack when it drops too low in charge. So in theory with the Magneto, you are going to drain all of its main electrical power by using a winch (or any other 12 volt accessories) for a long period of time or using it over and over again. This means the Magneto is going to start losing battery power driving range real quick while on a hard/extreme trail.

News headline article: "All-Electric Jeep Wrangler runs out of Electricity while on the Rubicon Trail"

Add: Don't forget that you need to first drive to the trailhead, so the main battery pack is already going to be less than 100-80% full.
 
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JBrown

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That is what I figured would happen. In BEVs the 12v battery is just charged off the main pack when it drops too low in charge. So in theory with the Magneto, you are going to drain all of its main electrical power by using a winch (or any other 12 volt accessories) for a long period of time or using it over and over again. This means the Magneto is going to start losing battery power driving range real quick while on a hard/extreme trail.

News headline article: "All-Electric Jeep Wrangler runs out of Electricity while on the Rubicon Trail"

Add: Don't forget that you need to first drive to the trailhead, so the main battery pack is already going to be less than 100-80% full.
Definitely, range is going to be the biggest challenge with an all electric Wrangler
 

pdpardue

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Definitely, range is going to be the biggest challenge with an all electric Wrangler
Range is the biggest challenge with an all electric anything...

But to be fair the issue isn't so much the range of an EV but the refueling/recharging time. If a BEV could recharge in the same amount of time it takes to refuel a gas tank then there wouldn't be any 'issues' with BEVs.

A full tank of gas might only get you 300 miles but it only takes 5 minutes to refuel and go another 300, and no one talks about range anxiety. The reality is it's not range anxiety as much as it's refueling anxiety.

For that reason alone, I, and probably many others, wouldn't consider a pure BEV but would consider a hybrid
 

nowandthen

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Range is the biggest challenge with an all electric anything...

But to be fair the issue isn't so much the range of an EV but the refueling/recharging time. If a BEV could recharge in the same amount of time it takes to refuel a gas tank then there wouldn't be any 'issues' with BEVs.

A full tank of gas might only get you 300 miles but it only takes 5 minutes to refuel and go another 300, and no one talks about range anxiety. The reality is it's not range anxiety as much as it's refueling anxiety.

For that reason alone, I, and probably many others, wouldn't consider a pure BEV but would consider a hybrid
Agree.
When I can pull into a recharging station and "fill up" in 10 minutes (or equivalent time of a gas fill up), then I'm all in on an all electric vehicle. We're getting there. But Jeep needs to add level 3 charging, which I'm guessing is not too far away. Yes, most people won't need level 3 for "normal" use, but when you want to go on a long trip what are you going to do with a level 2 vehicle? Most likely you will continue to have a gas or hybrid in your stable. The Drive train engineer kind of danced around the level 3 subject in the TLE video from a couple of months ago.

For now the 4Xe makes more sense.
 

JBrown

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Range is the biggest challenge with an all electric anything...

But to be fair the issue isn't so much the range of an EV but the refueling/recharging time. If a BEV could recharge in the same amount of time it takes to refuel a gas tank then there wouldn't be any 'issues' with BEVs.

A full tank of gas might only get you 300 miles but it only takes 5 minutes to refuel and go another 300, and no one talks about range anxiety. The reality is it's not range anxiety as much as it's refueling anxiety.

For that reason alone, I, and probably many others, wouldn't consider a pure BEV but would consider a hybrid
Of course range is the limiting factor on BEVs, I more meant in the Wrangler's case aftermarket accessories and an incredibly varying use case create different range concerns. It all boils down to refueling anxiety as you say, with the Wrangler your max and minimum ranges are gonna be pretty far apart. If someone were to get stuck on the trail in a group of electric rigs it might become who's winch can we use and everybody still makes it back to the trailhead
 

pdpardue

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Of course range is the limiting factor on BEVs, I more meant in the Wrangler's case aftermarket accessories and an incredibly varying use case create different range concerns. It all boils down to refueling anxiety as you say, with the Wrangler your max and minimum ranges are gonna be pretty far apart. If someone were to get stuck on the trail in a group of electric rigs it might become who's winch can we use and everybody still makes it back to the trailhead
Yeah, it's not really range if you really think about it right? I mean you're talking about winch and other accessories running down the battery, which you can recharge easily off of the running engine... And the engine you can easily refuel with extra fuel you bring along. An EV doesn't really have that as an option due to how long it takes to recharge and the fact that you can't as easily bring extra battery packs along to top off when you're getting low.

Batteries in their current state simply take up more space, are heavier, and take longer to recharge then a tank of gas/diesel does, but there are BEVs out there that can reach and exceed 300 miles on a full charge... so again, it's not really 'range' anxiety.
 

pdpardue

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Agree.
When I can pull into a recharging station and "fill up" in 10 minutes (or equivalent time of a gas fill up), then I'm all in on an all electric vehicle. We're getting there. But Jeep needs to add level 3 charging, which I'm guessing is not too far away. Yes, most people won't need level 3 for "normal" use, but when you want to go on a long trip what are you going to do with a level 2 vehicle? Most likely you will continue to have a gas or hybrid in your stable. The Drive train engineer kind of danced around the level 3 subject in the TLE video from a couple of months ago.

For now the 4Xe makes more sense.
level 2 vs level 3 also has a lot to do with if it's a PHEV or full BEV... There isn't quite as much as a 'need' on a PHEV like the 4xE with it's 20ish mile electric range to justify a fast charger, but something like a Tesla or Magneto with a full electric only drivetrain would benefit from level 3 fast charge...

I currently have a PHEV and yes I would love the option to be able to charge in a few minutes vs 2 hours but I also understand that realistically I'm not going to hop from charger to charger every 15-20 miles - that makes more sense for a BEV with a longer range.
 

nowandthen

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Agree. I didn't mean to imply I would wait for level 3 (or that it's needed) on the 4Xe. :)
I'm sitting back and watching to see if the 4Xe performs well. I'm not interested in it for the mileage, other than it being about equal to the V6. I want the HP and Torque with near V6 mileage! :devil:

My other concern: I've not driven a turbo engine that I liked. I've only experienced 2, an early turbo PT Cruiser, and a 2014ish Ford (escape?) wagon rental. On the PT, sometimes it would "go" when I pressed the skinny pedal to the floor, other times it would not (turbo did not kick in). The Ford was "twitchy" when driving at a normal speed. It acted like the turbo would kick in and out.

I hope turbo technology has improved since then. So far, I am not a fan of turbos, and specifically 4 cylinder turbos (not that i've driven a 6 or 8). I hope the 4Xe, having some electric, will smooth out the driving "experience". Shouldn't be long before we get real-world reviews. Fingers crossed. :)
 

Dryver

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Agree. I didn't mean to imply I would wait for level 3 (or that it's needed) on the 4Xe. :)
I'm sitting back and watching to see if the 4Xe performs well. I'm not interested in it for the mileage, other than it being about equal to the V6. I want the HP and Torque with near V6 mileage! :devil:

My other concern: I've not driven a turbo engine that I liked. I've only experienced 2, an early turbo PT Cruiser, and a 2014ish Ford (escape?) wagon rental. On the PT, sometimes it would "go" when I pressed the skinny pedal to the floor, other times it would not (turbo did not kick in). The Ford was "twitchy" when driving at a normal speed. It acted like the turbo would kick in and out.

I hope turbo technology has improved since then. So far, I am not a fan of turbos, and specifically 4 cylinder turbos (not that i've driven a 6 or 8). I hope the 4Xe, having some electric, will smooth out the driving "experience". Shouldn't be long before we get real-world reviews. Fingers crossed. :)
My 1997 Volvo 850R with its turbocharged 5-cylinder was always fun, and consistent, to drive. Has that initial turbo build-up, but wound up reasonably quick and then would scoot. 6.6 second 0-60 IIRC.
 

JBrown

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Yeah, it's not really range if you really think about it right? I mean you're talking about winch and other accessories running down the battery, which you can recharge easily off of the running engine... And the engine you can easily refuel with extra fuel you bring along. An EV doesn't really have that as an option due to how long it takes to recharge and the fact that you can't as easily bring extra battery packs along to top off when you're getting low.

Batteries in their current state simply take up more space, are heavier, and take longer to recharge then a tank of gas/diesel does, but there are BEVs out there that can reach and exceed 300 miles on a full charge... so again, it's not really 'range' anxiety.
You do realize you're arguing with me by saying essentially the same thing right? Using power for things that are not moving the vehicle reduces the total distance you can move the vehicle. You can't refill a battery with go juice in less than a couple minutes. Super simple stuff here
 

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