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Gritty SiO2 Surface?

nU7OuxIx

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I've heard all the rave about SiO2 products and wanted to try it out. Historically, I've been an old school Meguiar's three step clean/polish/wax kind of guy. On my JL, I did that, but afterwards, I added their SiO2 spray wax on top of the liquid wax after it was applied. I also tried their SiO2 wash and use the spray wax as well. After having everything dry, I have to say that the surface feels gritty, almost like how it feels when you need to clean the paint surface.

Thinking that maybe it's Meguiar's, I tried Mother's CMX spray tonight after a normal wash. After I applied the CMX, it's the same gritty feeling on the surface.

For those that are more knowledgeable with these new products.... After applying the SiO2 sprays, is the surface suppose to have a little grit to it, or should it be buttery smooth like after a carnuba or liquid wax?

Thanks!
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WranglerMan

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From my very limited research when applying these SiO2 coatings proper prep is keyā€¦l

Wash
Claybar
Wash again
Dry
Paint correction if needed
IPA or similar wipe down
Apply the SiO2 and some of these have a prep spray, I donā€™t believe Megs uses a prep spray but a lot of others like from Blackfire use a prep spray.

I would venture to say that a gritty feel after is not normal so was this applied over another wax other than Megs ? The reason I ask is lots of these products donā€˜ t blend well together.

I always try to look at the prep for a possible product I want to try to see about compatibility issues but usually try to match products, I currently have the Megs Hybrid SiO2 wax and detailer on my bench and will be using it on my Jeep in a few weeks after I do my prep.

The blue bottled Megs Ceramic wax gets applied to the vehicle when wet

The newer one that has a green neon color is applied to the vehicle dry and does not haze over but has to cure for 3-5 mins before wiping off.

The detailer spray is used over a already waxed vehicle to maintain from my understanding



If you used say the spray over another wax there may be a compatibility issue so I would reach out to Megs for a solid answer, they are very responsive.
 
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nU7OuxIx

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From my very limited research when applying these SiO2 coatings proper prep is keyā€¦l

Wash
Claybar
Wash again
Dry
Paint correction if needed
IPA or similar wipe down
Apply the SiO2 and some of these have a prep spray, I donā€™t believe Megs uses a prep spray but a lot of others like from Blackfire use a prep spray.

I would venture to say that a gritty feel after is not normal so was this applied over another wax other than Megs ? The reason I ask is lots of these products donā€˜ t blend well together.

I always try to look at the prep for a possible product I want to try to see about compatibility issues but usually try to match products, I currently have the Megs Hybrid SiO2 wax and detailer on my bench and will be using it on my Jeep in a few weeks after I do my prep.

The blue bottled Megs Ceramic wax gets applied to the vehicle when wet

The newer one that has a green neon color is applied to the vehicle dry and does not haze over but has to cure for 3-5 mins before wiping off.

The detailer spray is used over a already waxed vehicle to maintain from my understanding

If you used say the spray over another wax there may be a compatibility issue so I would reach out to Megs for a solid answer, they are very responsive.
Thanks for the response. When I used Meguiar's, it was shortly after I picked the Jeep up after it was ordered. The dealer didn't even detail it, which was fine by me. I didn't do a clay scrub, but I did apply the cleaner/rubbing compound, polish, liquid wax, then the blue bottle spray wax. From what I read, everything was compatible. I've since used the meguiar's sio2 wash followed by the sio2 spray. This had the gritty feeling.

I've since started trying Mother's CMX and had a similar experience. This one, I just put it on top of the meguiar's without cleaning anything. For mothers, they say that you can put layers of the spray down after a 24 hour drying period. I laid 3 layers down and I will say that things are smoother now.

Ultimately, I'm wondering if it has to do with my water. My water is EXTREMELY hard. When I take a closer look, the side panels are smoother than the hood. I'm wondering if possibly the extra minerals are drying on the hood but sliding off the sides.

I'm still doing some experimenting, but was wondering what others opinions are of sio2 products. I'm not completely sold on them just yet, but I do have a trail ride this weekend where I'm sure it will get tested. I know sio2 won't prevent scratches, but we'll see how it does against brush.
 

roaniecowpony

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I used some CMX on the JL about 2 years ago. I followed the directions; clay, alcohol wipe down, then applied it per the instructions. It came out smooth. Sounds like you have something going on....
 

roaniecowpony

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Another point of reference; I have ceramic coated, with Avalon King Armor IX, about 1/3 of my truck, with clay, paint correction and alcohol wipe down prior to coating. It is smooth as well.
 

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SiO2 products are still very new and bridge the gap between a true ceramic coating and a sealant

I may be wrong but from my research protection is ranked as follows:

Wax ( liquid or paste ) these look great but have the least protection

Sealants give that just waxed look and last about 4 months and wax can be applied over them.

** SiO2 Coatings these treatments give you 6+ months for the good ones and provide that hydroponic effect

Ceramic treatments are the most expensive and can provide several years worth of protection but waving over them is not recommended and actually you are wasting $$ by putting something over it

The SiO2 products as I said are new and were introduced to bridge the gap between sealants and ceramic coatings as they are a lot more forgiving to apply, they are not a true ceramic coating but contain a lot of the same properties as a ceramic coating but not durable but alot more durable than waxing and a step up from a sealant.

the reason SiO2 coatings have become popular is the protection and cost but I am just stating down this rabbit hole in power detailing so may be wrong.
 

WranglerMan

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I plan on comparing the Megs SiO2 to Pinnacle Souveran that I just put on my wifeā€™s car so hope to post some pics.

I wonā€™t be using the spray wax that you used I will use the newer bottled version and follow up with the detailer after it cures a bit.

I have a soft water bypass so I can wash my JL with softwater but will still do the whole detail thing.. wash, chemical decon, rinse, clay, wash again, dry, modified two step correction using 3D One, IPA wipe down Megs SiO2 wax and detailer.

I would ask Megs about your process to see what they say, Iā€™m pretty sure the gritty is not normal
 

roaniecowpony

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SiO2 products are still very new and bridge the gap between a true ceramic coating and a sealant

I may be wrong but from my research protection is ranked as follows:

Wax ( liquid or paste ) these look great but have the least protection

Sealants give that just waxed look and last about 4 months and wax can be applied over them.

** SiO2 Coatings these treatments give you 6+ months for the good ones and provide that hydroponic effect

Ceramic treatments are the most expensive and can provide several years worth of protection but waving over them is not recommended and actually you are wasting $$ by putting something over it

The SiO2 products as I said are new and were introduced to bridge the gap between sealants and ceramic coatings as they are a lot more forgiving to apply, they are not a true ceramic coating but contain a lot of the same properties as a ceramic coating but not durable but alot more durable than waxing and a step up from a sealant.

the reason SiO2 coatings have become popular is the protection and cost but I am just stating down this rabbit hole in power detailing so may be wrong.
My experience was that (2 coats) CMX (SiO2 bearing sealant) lasted about 8-10 months on the hood and maybe twice that on the sides.

Regarding topping ceramic with something, Avalon King recommends using CMX, one of the Adams and another were also mentioned secondarily. They said it will prolong the life of the base ceramic.
 

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Washed, dried, and used Shine Armor Fortify on my Black 2010 Jeep Liberty yesterday and wow! Shine is amazing. Water beading is fantastic. And easy to apply and wipe off. First time I use a SIO2 product and I am sold. Like OP I like old school three step, so I went in skeptical, and I am now a believer. I Will be using it on my Sarge Green 2021 JLU80 this weekend.
 
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nU7OuxIx

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Overall, it sounds like I have something going on and I need to go back and look at the process. I wonder if it had something to do with putting the sio2 over the liquid wax. I also did not do an alcohol wipe down, so maybe there's that too.

I was skeptical about applying the sio2 right after the polish and skipping the wax. Maybe it's just my way of thinking, but I figured it would get more protection for wax + sio2.

Besides the sio2, I wasn't thrilled about the cleaner and polish either. In the past, I would use an orbital to apply the liquid, wait until it hazes, then remove it with the orbital. It seems like if I did this, the haze was difficult to remove. It seemed like you really need to work one small section at a time and then remove it before it sits too long.

Overall, I felt like the Meguiar's products have become more user friendly to apply and you're worst off if you use an orbital or if you're using the same methods of yesteryear. On the Jeep, the orbital is a pain anyways due to the hinges, vents, and small surface areas. Maybe the professional line would give me my old process back, who knows. This last round though, I wasn't thrilled with the Meguiar's products.
 

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My experience was that (2 coats) CMX (SiO2 bearing sealant) lasted about 8-10 months on the hood and maybe twice that on the sides.

Regarding topping ceramic with something, Avalon King recommends using CMX, one of the Adams and another were also mentioned secondarily. They said it will prolong the life of the base ceramic.
I believe Avalon King advises to not apply wax over top of a ceramic coating not a SiO2 treatment, and from looking at there info putting a wax over the top aside from wasting money hinders the primary function of the ceramic coating but I could be misreading this info they posted.

Just to set the record straight, yes, you can apply car wax to a ceramic coated surface. But itā€™s going to cause far more issues than solutions. Routine cleaning, garage storage, and applying a high-grade SiO2 ceramic booster spray on top of your coating has proven time and time again to be the best form of protection.

When you apply a paste or liquid wax on top of a ceramic coating, youā€™re hindering its ability to fully function. In fact, traditional car wax is notorious for being quite the debris collector, primarily due to the oils and lubricants found in natural carnauba wax, which remain present even once fully hardened.

As the wax slowly soaks-up all the crap in the air, the ceramic coating underneath is left with little to do but wait, its hydrophobic repelling capabilities rendered useless by the waxy media spread atop it.
 

roaniecowpony

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I believe Avalon King advises to not apply wax over top of a ceramic coating not a SiO2 treatment, and from looking at there info putting a wax over the top aside from wasting money hinders the primary function of the ceramic coating but I could be misreading this info they posted.
Yup, wax over the top of ceramic is not detrimental to the integrity of the ceramic, but it isn't doing anything to help either, and brings with it some negative things about wax.

The recommendation to use CMX as a topper on Avalon King ceramic is not in their web material or blog. Their web just says something positive about using toppers, but stops short of brands. You have to contact them and they'll give you their recommendations.
 

WranglerMan

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Yup, wax over the top of ceramic is not detrimental to the integrity of the ceramic, but it isn't doing anything to help either, and brings with it some negative things about wax.

The recommendation to use CMX as a topper on Avalon King ceramic is not in their web material or blog. Their web just says something positive about using toppers, but stops short of brands. You have to contact them and they'll give you their recommendations.
I assume you applied their product, I am not close to attempting this but may consider it in the near future. I know you still have to maintain a ceramic coating as itā€™s not maintenance free but the pricing looks not to bad and the prep has to be done regardless.
 

roaniecowpony

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I assume you applied their product, I am not close to attempting this but may consider it in the near future. I know you still have to maintain a ceramic coating as itā€™s not maintenance free but the pricing looks not to bad and the prep has to be done regardless.
I've coated about 1/3 of my crewcab with Avalon. I can tell you it's about as easy as waxing your car to use Avalon King. However, whatever is on the paint or in it, will show thru. But you seem to be willing to do paint correction, so as you know, the paint correction is where the labor is. Actual application of Avalon ceramic is a piece of cake and really anti-climatic. It goes on like about the easiest wax you've used.

I had a midnight metallic blue Camaro that was professionally coated with Ceramic Pro. I kept that car outside for 3 years. I washed it weekly in drive-thru touchless car washes (a no-no per experts due to adverse ph soaps) and used a detailer spray on it after each wash. It was still very strong after those three years. Strong enough that when some squid hit the rear quarter panel in a parking lot (and took off) it didn't damage the paint and I had it paintless dent removed.

I think the OP has found his problem with the waxed surface. I think CMX tells you to get all the wax and other coatings off the paint.
 

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@roaniecowpony i think for now I will concentrate doing proper paint correction and utilize the products I currently have on hand which is Zymol ( cleaner wax ) Pinnacle Souveran Carnauba and detailer and Megs Hybrid Ceramic wax and detailer, I would like to venture into sealants at some point but for now I want to work on good detailing and paint correcting habits.

Besides my work bench and rack is pretty full šŸ¤Ŗ

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