Good read stolen from a FB post

[Omen]

.... and eventually, it only got worse.

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[Terrymo]

It’s a lot less work to just say everyone (or most) in a group is the same based on our exposure to part of that group. Everyone knows the problem is “them”, not “us”.

 

[Pape]

As per my understanding since most of the trail are on public land you may have the trail police to show up. Over here we have this, Yup, provincial police will run trail especially quad / Skydoo trail check for the same thing as road user.

 

[rsmith56]

I spend a month or so in the San Juans each year, late summer and early fall. We camp in dispersed camping areas. We get lots of the SXS’s blasting up and down the roads, where as jeeps, trucks, and etc slow down to keep from “dusting out” the campers. We also trade in those towns. Most have made municipal laws allowing SXS vehicles on designated streets over the last few years. Most of the business owners in those towns and now reconsidering, with multiple complaints about speed, noise, dirt, trash, and trail damage. One town business owners in those commented that the jeeps and bikes and motorcycles did not cause many problems and their business trade was quite welcome, However, they believed that the extra business brought in by the SXS groups was not worth It. I see trail patrols coming in the future. It also may mean that all trail vehicles be street legal as well.
BTW, I own a SXS, but I will not be trailing it on public lands.

 

[Upnarms]

There are plenty of jeep a-holes to go around. And jeep people that also have SxSs too.... what to do with them? Ive come across jeep groups drinking beer, stopped, blocking a bridge. Lake people. At least the kind at lakes where i live. We can expand this to mountain bikers, road cyclists, e cyclist, heck Dodgers and Red Sox fans, telemarketers, let's keep going! Let's get to the heart of the matter.... it's a-holes in general. No matter what they drive, ride, etc...

A lot of people are just plain jerks. What are you going to do about it? Vent on the forum i guess.

 

[2nd 392]

There are plenty of jeep a-holes to go around. And jeep people that also have SxSs too.... what to do with them? Ive come across jeep groups drinking beer, stopped, blocking a bridge. Lake people. At least the kind at lakes where i live. We can expand this to mountain bikers, road cyclists, e cyclist, heck Dodgers and Red Sox fans, telemarketers, let's keep going! Let's get to the heart of the matter.... it's a-holes in general. No matter what they drive, ride, etc...

A lot of people are just plain jerks. What are you going to do about it? Vent on the forum i guess.

even in Yosemite, they leave their trash, shitty diapers included, and stroll off.

 

[Speed331]

It's not the jeep doing 5mph that's the problem, it's the rice rocket sxs doing 50 that is

This. I can name several, once amazing trails, that have been utterly ruined by sxs's bombing around at full tilt.
A perfect example is the 'Logandale loop' in the Valley of Fire. Ten years ago you could run the loop in about three hours - now it takes closer to six. Why? Because the first 2/3's of the trail are now a non-stop, out of phase series of six inch deep two foot wide whoops that set your 4x4 rocking violently side to side at any speed over 5mph- Disconnected or not. But not the sxs's. With their light weight and long travel independant suspension, they fly through those rollers at 40+ with no problem, digging them deapeper and deeper every day.
The only thing saving the final 3rd of the loop is that it's deep sand.
What should be a plesant ride through stunning high desert sandstone is simply ruined by the violent movement of your vehicle every few moments.
Schnebly hill in Sedona is another trail that's been utterly trashed over the last decade. Once opon a time you could almost take a street car down it. Today it's a broken, torn up mess. Shoot, the last time I was on it, I saw a sxs gassing it up the hill, rip a fourteen inch rock out of the ground, instantly making two new obsticles - a hole and a big rock.
...and don't get me started on dodging high speed yahoo's going flat out on the forest service roads up on the rim in the Coconino Forest...
Look, I grew up riding and racing dirt bikes in the desert southwest. But we knew when and where we could 'go for it' and where doing so was inappropriate because we had solid ( and enforced) guidance by older riders.
But the sxs community seems sadly lacking in those voices of sanity and restraint - and WE ALL risk loosing access to the places we love because of it.

 

[embedded rock]

Used to ride Turkey Bay OHV on Land Between the Lakes, in the late 90's and early 2000's, with my former WR400F. Trails were marked, and with plenty of single track. Last time riding there in '17, the single track was rutted two-track ATV. Likewise, in Moab, Utah area, I see "Jeep" trails that have widened and some by-pass tracks. More and more edge vegetation is beat down from going around rocks. Being off-road and going around rocks to the point of widening the trail doesn't make sense for me.

Every time I drive by a powersports dealer and see dozens of SXS, I have to wonder where everyone is driving those things. Year after year there are more being built and sold. I can only hope just as many per year are destroyed and recycled.

 

[flick2614]

This. I can name several, once amazing trails, that have been utterly ruined by sxs's bombing around at full tilt.
A perfect example is the 'Logandale loop' in the Valley of Fire. Ten years ago you could run the loop in about three hours - now it takes closer to six. Why? Because the first 2/3's of the trail are now a non-stop, out of phase series of six inch deep two foot wide whoops that set your 4x4 rocking violently side to side at any speed over 5mph- Disconnected or not. But not the sxs's. With their light weight and long travel independant suspension, they fly through those rollers at 40+ with no problem, digging them deapeper and deeper every day.
The only thing saving the final 3rd of the loop is that it's deep sand.
What should be a plesant ride through stunning high desert sandstone is simply ruined by the violent movement of your vehicle every few moments.
Schnebly hill in Sedona is another trail that's been utterly trashed over the last decade. Once opon a time you could almost take a street car down it. Today it's a broken, torn up mess. Shoot, the last time I was on it, I saw a sxs gassing it up the hill, rip a fourteen inch rock out of the ground, instantly making two new obsticles - a hole and a big rock.
...and don't get me started on dodging high speed yahoo's going flat out on the forest service roads up on the rim in the Coconino Forest...
Look, I grew up riding and racing dirt bikes in the desert southwest. But we knew when and where we could 'go for it' and where doing so was inappropriate because we had solid ( and enforced) guidance by older riders.
But the sxs community seems sadly lacking in those voices of sanity and restraint - and WE ALL risk loosing access to the places we love because of it.

The sxs's have definitely contributed to Schnebly being a rough, rocky mess but I'd argue that all the assholes had a part there, inexperienced tourists being the biggest culprits.

 

[PeatedWhisky]

The trash, I just don't understand throwing trash on the ground....
In my neck of the woods, the off-roaders (which are mostly ATVs of some sort, or dirt bikes) are generally the local-ish folks that aren't a problem. It's the public utilizing the national forest that tend to trash parking areas, camping sites, and some roadways.

 

[Punknhed]

I blame it on the events in this country the last few years. All this Im special and you will accept it, and i dont give a shit if i interfere, or am wrong, or am disrespectful, or destructive, its all about MEEEEEEE i can do whatever i want and theres no repercussions for it. Remeber here a few years ago, how law and order got thrown out the damn window........

 

[Max Headroom]

GUEST ESSAY:
This is a short, well stated, article by Doug Russel. He wrote it for SxSs, but it is just as relevant to us full-size 4x4 types. I liked it enough I asked permission to post it here.
**********

Doug posted: Are We Our Own Worst Enemy?

There’s no easy way to say this, so I’m just going to spit it out: we might be killing the very thing we love.

Yep, I said it. Us. The SxS community. The trail riders. The weekend warriors. The gear junkies. The Motorized Trail Riding Recreationalists. We might be our own worst enemy.

And it’s not because we don’t care—it’s because we do care. We care so much about the freedom, the rush, the connection with nature, the comradery, that sometimes we forget that this hobby isn’t a right. It’s a privilege. And privileges can be taken away.

We Leave a Bigger Mark Than We Realize
It starts small. A little throttle-happy donut in a meadow. A beer can that “accidentally” ends up on the side of a trail. A shortcut across fragile tundra because we didn’t want to backtrack. We’ve all seen it—or worse, ignored it.

What used to be “just having fun” is now showing up on trail closure reports. The Forest Service isn’t blind. Land managers aren’t clueless. And environmental watchdogs? They’re locked, loaded, and looking for reasons to shut us out.

We give them ammo every time we forget our impact.

Trail Etiquette Isn’t Optional
Tailgating. Passing without warning. Dusting hikers. Ignoring yield signs. Folks, this isn’t NASCAR—it’s a shared trail system.

I’m seeing more and more reckless behavior out there, and not from kids. Grown adults who should know better. Riders blowing past campsites like they’re chasing trophies. People with 20-foot flags and $40K machines but zero courtesy.

When did horsepower replace humility?

Social Media: Our Best Tool or Worst Weapon?
Look, I love sharing trail pics and highlighting great gear like the next guy, but the “Look at me!” attitude is poisoning the well. We tag fragile locations, show off rule-breaking, and flood sensitive areas with riders who aren’t prepared, trained, or respectful.

We flex online, and the damage echoes in real life. It’s like lighting fireworks in a drought. Just because it looks cool doesn’t mean it’s wise.

We Know Better. So Why Aren’t We Doing Better?
We’ve been at this long enough to know the rules, the risks, and the consequences. So why are we still seeing burned-down fire rings, trashed pullouts, and trails scarred by oversized rigs during mud season?

It’s not ignorance—it’s apathy. And that’s worse.

Be the Example. Not the Excuse.
Here’s the hard truth: our access to public lands is hanging by a thread. Every time a gate closes or a trail gets decommissioned, it’s because someone broke the trust.

And if we’re not part of the solution, then we’re the reason that gate locks shut for good.

The Challenge
So I’m challenging all of us—especially us 50+ folks who’ve seen the changes—to be ambassadors, not agitators. Let’s lead by example:

Pick up more than you pack in.

Speak up when someone’s out of line.

Show newcomers the right way to ride.

Ride with respect—and expect it from others.

Because if we don’t clean up our act, someone else will do it for us… and we aren't gonna like the way they do it.
**********

Thank you to Doug Russell of Colorado SxS Adventures for allowing us to share his post. (link in comments)
Here is his FB page: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61558376720918

I've been wheeling, dirt biking for decades, mostly in the San Juans to Moab area of western Colorado/eastern Utah. I would have to agree that the SxS crowd is a real problem. Before them, it was their predecessor, the ATV's. In that case it was the sport type machines, not the slower farm tractor types. And before them, it was the long suspension 2 stroke motor x bikes. It seems like the folks that buy these high performance machines think off road is just them pretending they're running the baja, or the mint 400. Are there jeep drivers that are a holes? Probably. But honestly they are so few and far between, I haven't run across one.
Where I live there are areas where riding full out, jumping, spinning donuts, making bowls on hills is fine. Not what I'm talking about. It's the people that bring a toy hauler full of these things to dispersed camping near designated 4wd trails. They are the problem, and I'm not a big fan. When I see them, all I can think of is the cartoon called Squidbillies. because that is how they all seem to behave.
BTW, these same folks are a problem in regular camp sites, if you hang out in the RV forums. No respect for 'quiet hours', dogs and kids running loose, cutting thru other peoples camp sites. These no respect, low lifes are everywhere, not just off road. Diesel monster truck guys flexing their latest 'tune' with uncapped exhaust rolling coal everywhere, the hoons spinning donuts in intersections, running open pipes in the lowest gear possible all hours of the day and night. And let's not forget the a holes with the bass that you can hear a block away.

Social media isn't helping. People posting this behavior as if it's acceptable and cool is not helping. In fact just posting pics of your favorite off road area is probably detrimental.

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